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+--- Thread: smoke for poke? (/showthread.php?tid=26665)
RE: smoke for poke? - jammapic - 18-09-2014
Even the stage 1+ files I've done for people where they said "I'm not worried about smoke, give it a bit more poke" don't really smoke that much. I suspect if these 2 guys are indeed running the maps I've done they either a) have a bad boost leak like lots of them seem to or b) asked me to really push the map, on the understanding there would indeed be a bit of smoke on spool up of the turbo.
If they want the fuelling knocking back a tad to reduce the smoke, I'm happy to do that free of charge just to show that a normal stage 1 tune shouldn't really smoke at all, just a light haze when really going for it - and normally that is only in the headlights of a car behind.
"Thebluepearl" that is exactly it. You can get 125hp and torque to go with it with pretty much no smoke at all. If you want to push that up around the 130/135hp mark it can be done, as I've proven at a number of dyno days now, but you have to expect that it will smoke a bit more, and as such the exhaust gas temperatures will get higher.
Even so, when I was initially testing the stage 1+ files on the test car, the EGT's were still well under what you'd see on even a normal stage 2 intercooled car... so I'd assume if they really were leaving "plumes" of smoke behind, there's something up with the car.
You have a choice, no smoke and a decent solid stage 1, or tolerate a bit of smoke and go for a stage 1+.
JP
RE: smoke for poke? - lolsteve - 18-09-2014
I had a bit of smoke on my stage 1, nothing major just a bit visible when heavily laden and going up hill on the motorway ( moving into uni etc) as soon as I put an intercooler on that went away. So you could get yourself a map and intercool it
RE: smoke for poke? - thebluepearl - 18-09-2014
Jammapic, I wasn't having a dig at your maps fella you was actually highly recommended to me via the forum, I was simply asking do you need to have all the smoke with a stage 1 map? For instance I can leave my car for weeks without a wash and there is no sooting to the rear at all yet the couple of cars I have seen with said maps are covered in soot after a week of running around and when booting along the smoke is VERY noticeable
RE: smoke for poke? - pro_steve - 18-09-2014
If you want it smoke free then any of the well known tuners will be able to do that for you. Usually I make the 120 bhp map for people who want it nice and clean.
You need a healthy balance between smoke/power, it's easy to get more power but you will produce more smoke; the maximum power a tuner gives is usually closely related to what they deem acceptable in terms of smoke. Anything more than a light haze and you either knock the power back or start looking for boost leaks or EGR problems.
RE: smoke for poke? - jammapic - 18-09-2014
Like Steve says, we can all do them smoke free, that's the preferred option. But if you want to push the envelope a little and run a bit more power it will smoke! Certainly without an intercooler anyway.
RE: smoke for poke? - thebluepearl - 18-09-2014
Thanks guys it's all starting to make more sense now, so as I want it nice and clean, 120bhp is still a 30 bhp increase does that improve the torque by much too?
RE: smoke for poke? - jammapic - 18-09-2014
Oh yes, loads. They tend to make about 220lbft on a stage 1, pushing that to 240lbft on a stage 1+.
When you go to stage 2 that's up to around 280lbft and then stage 2+ at 300lbft...
JP
RE: smoke for poke? - 306clot - 18-09-2014
i have been running a map from james for a while now and have noticed at times it does smoke a bit but that adds to the fun, is this deemed alot of smoke for your st 1+ james? only at about 3/4 throttle due to slippage
![[Image: th_9CCBECCF-4384-4192-9C0C-3D6C30BDA382_zpsnad4tfsb.jpg]](http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a129/skyline_999/th_9CCBECCF-4384-4192-9C0C-3D6C30BDA382_zpsnad4tfsb.jpg)
RE: smoke for poke? - thebluepearl - 18-09-2014
That's the 1 for me then the mild 120bhp remap now to pick 1 of the friendly helpful tuners on here to offer their service of re mapping my pride and joy, so next hurdle to jump who's keen? And do you need my car? Or can I just bung my ecu in the post? And what's the going rate of said service
RE: smoke for poke? - jammapic - 19-09-2014
306clot. I would say that probably is a touch on the smokey side, just remember it is a plus map though so it will make some visible smoke.
Have you checked for boost leaks etc as mentioned above??
JP
RE: smoke for poke? - Matt-Rallye - 19-09-2014
My stage 1 HDi smokes like a boss but only on spool up. on boost it burns clean
so if i go round flooring it from idle in every gear i can soon soot up the bootlid. if i drive unlike a knob its fine 
RE: smoke for poke? - Poodle - 19-09-2014
(18-09-2014, 08:11 PM)306clot Wrote: i have been running a map from james for a while now and have noticed at times it does smoke a bit but that adds to the fun, is this deemed alot of smoke for your st 1+ james? only at about 3/4 throttle due to slippage
That's at 3/4 throttle?? Nice...
RE: smoke for poke? - jammapic - 19-09-2014
Shit, I missed the fact that's at 3/4 throttle. In that case, there's definitely something not quite right with the car....
JP
I'd also say, if the clutch is slipping at 3/4 throttle you have other issues too...
RE: smoke for poke? - Matt-Rallye - 19-09-2014
My throttle only has 2 positions.. on or off
RE: smoke for poke? - powerandtorque - 19-09-2014
Yeah, not right if that's 3/4 throttle - my Stage 1+ from JP is clean* at 3/4 throttle and less smoke than that even at full throttle.
That's despite needing to fix a small boost leak on the intake elbow judging by the tale-tale oily film that's appeared on the back of it.
* - "clean" as in I can't see any visible smoke out of the back and no/minimal noticeable "haze" in the headlights of cars following
RE: smoke for poke? - thebluepearl - 19-09-2014
Pretty much all the derv that have remaps in cornwall run like that ha ha
RE: smoke for poke? - 306clot - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 12:07 PM)jammapic Wrote: Shit, I missed the fact that's at 3/4 throttle. In that case, there's definitely something not quite right with the car....
JP
I'd also say, if the clutch is slipping at 3/4 throttle you have other issues too...
I notice I have a message from you but however I can't reply due to limited posts, the map was from you but I had to text as I couldn't on pm, the clutch was dead at the time and I am replacing today (was truly f*cked) and I notice it doesn't smoke much at night there for could it be a air temparure problem other than boost leak?
Jake
smoke for poke? - tb205gti - 19-09-2014
What you see is (probably) the effect of a MAF running on the (software) limit.. It can not distinguish between full boost and 75% boost - thus allowing too much diesel
RE: smoke for poke? - Toms306 - 19-09-2014
(19-09-2014, 12:34 PM)Matt-Rallye Wrote: My throttle only has 2 positions.. on or off
Glad it's not only mine like this...wtf is this 3/4 throttle about!?
RE: smoke for poke? - jammapic - 19-09-2014
Tb, MAF range isn't the issue here I don't think. I think this is a mechanical issue on the vehicle. Lots of other stage 1+ maps out there without this sort of smoke.
Jake, the pm I sent said get in touch with me and I will happily mod the map again for you to reduce fuel and thus smoke. That said, it would be worth getting a boost gauge on it to check that you haven't got a leak.
JP
07769165138
Jake, as you say in your pm to me. The very rattly injectors will need replacing. I expect that is contributing to the issue.
That said, I will send you a new map with better smoke control and less fuelling to further reduce the smoke, all free of charge of course.
JP
smoke for poke? - tb205gti - 19-09-2014
Yes JP I agree, but at the same tine it shows the problem with the maf and the sw limitations there are. It is hard controlling the smoke in some areas. With a normal car you'll probably never see it - but give it a faulty clutch and you'll see it. Hard to explain from the phone :/
RE: smoke for poke? - jammapic - 19-09-2014
Yes i agree moral of the story is fix a clutch! I'll do a new file anyway for you as there's always room for improvement!!
RE: smoke for poke? - thebluepearl - 20-09-2014
![[Image: th_20140920_170935_zps6keujumx.jpg]](http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a431/thebluepearl1/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-09/th_20140920_170935_zps6keujumx.jpg)
This is cold start revved to 5k proof hdi's don't smoke
RE: smoke for poke? - Toms306 - 20-09-2014
I really wouldn't be redlining from a cold start...plus the cold map limits throttle anyway lol.
But that's the first HDi I've ever seen without even a light whisp!
You'll have to take a video under load to further impress me though...I bet 3rd gear uphill from sod all revs there'll be some smoke... 
This one was standard (or so I was told!) but with a straight through and decat... Skip to 45 seconds, should start at 45 but doesn't seem to be!
http://youtu.be/LvKRLkTyQbk?t=44s
RE: smoke for poke? - LewisG - 20-09-2014
(16-09-2014, 08:58 PM)Razorback_Rob Wrote: They're probably smoking due to a boost leak very common on the dw10 engine.
My mates was apart quite bad and was causing a lot of smoke on a stage 1. With this fixed and no other leaks a stage 1 shouldn't smoke at all unless given some proper booting about.
![[Image: 008bf12a15f03b5643359eda35cb1663.jpg]](http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/16/008bf12a15f03b5643359eda35cb1663.jpg)
How do you repair this? My HDI has this and produces a nice cloud of smoke if I go over 4k rev
smoke for poke? - Razorback_Rob - 20-09-2014
(20-09-2014, 06:51 PM)LewisG Wrote:(16-09-2014, 08:58 PM)Razorback_Rob Wrote: They're probably smoking due to a boost leak very common on the dw10 engine.
My mates was apart quite bad and was causing a lot of smoke on a stage 1. With this fixed and no other leaks a stage 1 shouldn't smoke at all unless given some proper booting about.
How do you repair this? My HDI has this and produces a nice cloud of smoke if I go over 4k rev
Take nuts off and the bolts holding in the egr valve and pry apart. Clean out the egr and the inlet etc while you're there. Replace old broken gasket with 2 gaskets peugeot part number: 0348N6 and put a bit of gasket seal on too. Bolt up. Should be good then. Doubling up the gasket should help it not go again.
RE: smoke for poke? - LewisG - 20-09-2014
(20-09-2014, 07:06 PM)Razorback_Rob Wrote:(20-09-2014, 06:51 PM)LewisG Wrote:(16-09-2014, 08:58 PM)Razorback_Rob Wrote: They're probably smoking due to a boost leak very common on the dw10 engine.
My mates was apart quite bad and was causing a lot of smoke on a stage 1. With this fixed and no other leaks a stage 1 shouldn't smoke at all unless given some proper booting about.
How do you repair this? My HDI has this and produces a nice cloud of smoke if I go over 4k rev
Take nuts off and the bolts holding in the egr valve and pry apart. Clean out the egr and the inlet etc while you're there. Replace old broken gasket with 2 gaskets peugeot part number: 0348N6 and put a bit of gasket seal on too. Bolt up. Should be good then. Doubling up the gasket should help it not go again.
WIll I have to move the engine forward?
smoke for poke? - Razorback_Rob - 20-09-2014
(20-09-2014, 07:22 PM)LewisG Wrote:(20-09-2014, 07:06 PM)Razorback_Rob Wrote:(20-09-2014, 06:51 PM)LewisG Wrote: How do you repair this? My HDI has this and produces a nice cloud of smoke if I go over 4k rev
Take nuts off and the bolts holding in the egr valve and pry apart. Clean out the egr and the inlet etc while you're there. Replace old broken gasket with 2 gaskets peugeot part number: 0348N6 and put a bit of gasket seal on too. Bolt up. Should be good then. Doubling up the gasket should help it not go again.
WIll I have to move the engine forward?
No bud it's tight though.
RE: smoke for poke? - thebluepearl - 21-09-2014
[quote='Toms306' pid='475088' dateline='1411232806']
I really wouldn't be redlining from a cold start...plus the cold map limits throttle anyway lol.
But that's the first HDi I've ever seen without even a light whisp!
You'll have to take a video under load to further impress me though...I bet 3rd gear uphill from sod all revs there'll be some smoke... This one was standard (or so I was told!) but with a straight through and decat... Skip to 45 seconds, should start at 45 but don't seem to be
The rear quarter looks to have had some slight damage ha, I will try get hold of a go pro and film my car driving along, even my brother was impressed yesterday at it not smoking he's got a vitara with a hdi engine and his knocks rattles and smokes like a trooper so to see my car do that he was a little annoyed ha ha
RE: smoke for poke? - Toms306 - 21-09-2014
Tbh I'm thinking yours is broken and holding back fuel for some reason.
And lol, yeah, just a light impact....was only cat D!! I broke it for parts, theres parts of it all over this forum now lol and the engine is now in my car.
I've gotta try and get a vid of mine under load, pre-boost, with a slightly leaky EGR blank, you'd be horrified.