Stage 2 Clutch Kit

[Adam Canning WSG]

Was looking online and found a clutch kit called 'Torque fast road stage 2 cluth kit' for the 306 hdi obviously, the kit is just short of £200 and states it can handle to torque of a non limited torque stage 2 remap.. Just curious, has anybody had any experience with this clutch, and can you reccomend it before i go ahead and buy it?

   

[Just Sean]

Id buy from a well knownbrand. at least you know its back ground...

you dont want to have to go through all the hassle of changing it, then realising it aint good enough and having to change it again! For the sake of an extra 50 or so quid you could get a branded one...

[lolsteve]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TORQUE-FAST-RO...5d3538bce5 This?

iirc a new standard valeo can just about handle the power if treated well but just not for very long before burning out . so this might be something similar or even just slightly better in which case it would be better just to spend the little bit extra on the helix/sachs ?
I'd be very much like to be told im wrong and that this is the answer to expensive clutches , just have seen people buy the "performance" clutches on ebay before and had to take it right back out again because it was some cheap one that had been painted up

[Just Sean]

Dont bother with a new valeo either! Just spend a bit more and get a helix/sachs!

[cwspellowe]

+1 all the above.

A lot of these "performance" clutches tend to just be pattern parts with bits painted a bright colour.

Other option is to get a standard clutch resurfaced but for the effort just buy a proper one

[Adam Canning WSG]

+1 all the above.

A lot of these "performance" clutches tend to just be pattern parts with bits painted a bright colour.

Other option is to get a standard clutch resurfaced but for the effort just buy a proper one

on a budget of about £200 for a clutch, so helix/sachs isnt really an option for me :/ il go ahead with this one, and let everyone know if it can handle a stage 2 full torque map

[Just Sean]

Fair play for trying it out. i would have waited and saved some more personally!

[Adam Canning WSG]

Fair play for trying it out. i would have waited and saved some more personally!

how much is it for a sachs clutch and were is the best place to buy one?

[Adam Canning WSG]

bought that panther clutch kit, will let everyone know how she goes wen shes in

[lolsteve]

Looking forward to the results, kudos for buying it to test
are you going for limited torque/full fat/......stage 3?

[cwspellowe]

Been doing some reading, all kinds of stories about panther with the sports clutches being repackaged Valeo/LUK and their paddle ones someone got an AP branded clutch in a Panther box.

Be interesting to see the results!

[Mr Whippy]

Was looking online and found a clutch kit called 'Torque fast road stage 2 cluth kit' for the 306 hdi obviously, the kit is just short of £200 and states it can handle to torque of a non limited torque stage 2 remap.. Just curious, has anybody had any experience with this clutch, and can you reccomend it before i go ahead and buy it?

A new LuK or Valeo can take 275lbft with slight slipping only under the highest loads, and possibly with a softer curve (they had an oem back box which softens response)

I developed my remapping for FMIC with this guy and he ran it like that for years.


Back when I was researching it seemed common for many resellers to 'upgrade' clutches by cutting back the friction faces.
Due to the action of the pressure plate springs, they reach a pick in the clutches mid life, and then taper off again.
I'm not sure how large this peak is, it's probably a function of many things.

So you can imagine that an LuK new that holds 275lbft will hold maybe 300lbft after maybe a year and a half as the clutch wears down and the clamping pressure increases slightly.

So if they trim an LuK or Valeo it'll hold 300lbft out of the box and etc voila, an 'upgraded' clutch that will last half as long.

Since a big chunk of the cost on these cars is actually *swapping* the clutch, lifetime is very important, and so going for something 'tweaked' to hold more torque initially at the cost of extra life is just pointless imo.


Just put the labour cost of the extra clutch change towards a better clutch and do it once every four years rather than once every two!


Unless of course they can say what they do to the clutches and provide a friction material depth/composition.

If it's any thinner than the likes of Valeo/LuK new, then it's probably cut back... so kinda pointless.


Imo, if they are so into DW10 HDi tuning stages and say it'll hold 300lbft, then why not let someone do a free trial of it at random from a selection of forum users or something?

No better way to prove your pudding than to let people try it!

Dave

[Adam Canning WSG]

Looking forward to the results, kudos for buying it to test
are you going for limited torque/full fat/......stage 3?

no problem, these guys offer 2year/20,000miles warranty on there clutches anyhow so it should be all good, and il get a refund if its rubbish lol, going for full torque stage 2 map lad

---

Was looking online and found a clutch kit called 'Torque fast road stage 2 cluth kit' for the 306 hdi obviously, the kit is just short of £200 and states it can handle to torque of a non limited torque stage 2 remap.. Just curious, has anybody had any experience with this clutch, and can you reccomend it before i go ahead and buy it?

A new LuK or Valeo can take 275lbft with slight slipping only under the highest loads, and possibly with a softer curve (they had an oem back box which softens response)

I developed my remapping for FMIC with this guy and he ran it like that for years.


Back when I was researching it seemed common for many resellers to 'upgrade' clutches by cutting back the friction faces.
Due to the action of the pressure plate springs, they reach a pick in the clutches mid life, and then taper off again.
I'm not sure how large this peak is, it's probably a function of many things.

So you can imagine that an LuK new that holds 275lbft will hold maybe 300lbft after maybe a year and a half as the clutch wears down and the clamping pressure increases slightly.

So if they trim an LuK or Valeo it'll hold 300lbft out of the box and etc voila, an 'upgraded' clutch that will last half as long.

Since a big chunk of the cost on these cars is actually *swapping* the clutch, lifetime is very important, and so going for something 'tweaked' to hold more torque initially at the cost of extra life is just pointless imo.


Just put the labour cost of the extra clutch change towards a better clutch and do it once every four years rather than once every two!


Unless of course they can say what they do to the clutches and provide a friction material depth/composition.

If it's any thinner than the likes of Valeo/LuK new, then it's probably cut back... so kinda pointless.


Imo, if they are so into DW10 HDi tuning stages and say it'll hold 300lbft, then why not let someone do a free trial of it at random from a selection of forum users or something?

No better way to prove your pudding than to let people try it!

Dave

very true there Whippy, these 'panther' clutches come with 2 year/20,000mile warrantys, so it kinda is a test anyway if you think about it, if the clutch is rubbish then il get a refund and make sure everyone on here knows to stay away from them lol, but ive got a good feeling about these clutches, and reckon they could be the answer to a cheap uprated clutch

[Midnightclub]

very true there Whippy, these 'panther' clutches come with 2 year/20,000mile warrantys, so it kinda is a test anyway if you think about it, if the clutch is rubbish then il get a refund and make sure everyone on here knows to stay away from them lol, but ive got a good feeling about these clutches, and reckon they could be the answer to a cheap uprated clutch

They may give you a warranty but they won't pay for it to be unfitted/refitted they'll just give you another clutch which will still leave you a few hundred out of pocket...

EDIT: Just after checking through their ad, they only guarantee it for 35-40% more torque.. worked out from standard that means it'll be guaranteed to hold give or take 240 lb/ft.. about the same amount a standard valeo will hold no problem.. Stage 2 is more like 270 lb/ft+

[con67]

I doubt your gona get the spool on a td04 for 270lbs never mind 300lbs, but dont worry about you'll get your power, sail past high torque stage2s and maybe not even need an uprated clutch!

[cwspellowe]

very true there Whippy, these 'panther' clutches come with 2 year/20,000mile warrantys, so it kinda is a test anyway if you think about it, if the clutch is rubbish then il get a refund and make sure everyone on here knows to stay away from them lol, but ive got a good feeling about these clutches, and reckon they could be the answer to a cheap uprated clutch

They may give you a warranty but they won't pay for it to be unfitted/refitted they'll just give you another clutch which will still leave you a few hundred out of pocket...

EDIT: Just after checking through their ad, they only guarantee it for 35-40% more torque.. worked out from standard that means it'll be guaranteed to hold give or take 240 lb/ft.. about the same amount a standard valeo will hold no problem.. Stage 2 is more like 270 lb/ft+

Exactly. A standard car isn't on the limit of the clutch out the box, there has to be a level of tolerance to make sure clutches don't need replaced every 2 years.

From the numbers quoted, i'm not convinced, their paddle clutches however.. Hmm.

[lolsteve]

For the price of their paddles you might as well go for the proven options

[Arron]

Could always just replace the plate with am helix, £189. On eBay.....

[Mr Whippy]

Someone just needs to find a place that will uprate a standard pressure plate 20% on the spring thickness or something?!

Assuming some fall-off on the efficiency, say you get 15% more clamping force then 260lbft * 15% ~ 300lbft

I've known people run LuK with 275lbft with a 'soft' exhaust (ie, laggy so it softens torque spikes) and run it ok for years with only slight slips now and again in top gear at peak torque on the motorway etc...

So assuming you get a new OEM kit and somehow had the pressure plate uprated, I bet they'd hold up to 300lbft ok for 2-3yrs of normal use.


Or once again that Berlingo van clutch kit. If that really is the one people are using that takes big torque numbers but feels like an OEM clutch that is the one I'd be going for! Anyone actually confirmed that one yet?

Issue with all this testing is no one wants to risk the labour of fitting for something that might not work hehe... so no one takes the risk.

I didn't I'll admit, I just bought the most crazy clutch possible so I knew it'd hold for my tuning development

Dave

[Just Sean]

What did you get out of intrest?

I Quite like the feel of my paddle now ive gto used to it!! Downshifts are ace!

[DaveW]

Is it not the design of the hdi clutch which is the problem? i got a feeling my xsara one will cope better as its hyrdraulic clutch rather than cable...

[Mr Whippy]

What did you get out of intrest?

I Quite like the feel of my paddle now ive gto used to it!! Downshifts are ace!

Sachs cerametallic 4 paddle sprung centred jobby, with a Valeo pressure plate.

Dave

[Ben hdi306]

Did you end up using this clutch if so how was it dose it hold the power?

[Adam Canning WSG]

Did you end up using this clutch if so how was it dose it hold the power?

I replied to your pm before i seen this reply mate, hope it helps

[Poodle]

So how does it hold the power then?

[Dave26]

As far as I'm aware he hasn't had the car mapped yet.

[Adam Canning WSG]

Everyone AVOID this clutch at all costs, it is pure and utter cheap chinese shite! Thrust bearing exploaded after about 15 miles or so, and the clutch is just generally very badly made, avoid at all costs! I am now running a gti6 clutch kit and it is holding power very well, i am very pleased with the gti6 clutch and so far recommend it.. Getting car mapped today, more updates to follow

[Arron]

Panther wank

[lolsteve]

Exploded before map'd? That's shittee

[Slam Wagon]

It doesnt suprise me