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How To - 2.1TD Swap / XUD11 Fitting
#61
(03-12-2012, 10:14 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: I know alot of people here are dead interested in this and hopefully itll be useful for a few people. If this is useful for you will you please consider donating to the club as we run purely on donations not advertising revenue unlike other forums.




So why would you want one?

Well its a nice lazy torquey long stroke motor. It will make an excellent cruiser/daily/tow car but itll never be the 6-7k screaming diesel that some people love from the XUD9s.

On a 9mm pump and standard turbo im running about 150bhp and 240lb/ft and several serial 306 owners agree on that so it cant be far wrong. It dosent feel fast ever but it adds speed at a substantial rate and has a pretty constant rate of acceleration all the way through the revs. Its power band is from 1700-4500rpm and id say its comfortably above 110bhp and 190lb/ft all the way through that range. It never feels troubles of frantic when you put your foot down. I think its more comfortable driven slowly than the XUD9 too. Loves sitting at 2k on the motorway at 60mph and does over 60mpg at that speed too (and on veg at 90ppl makes for seriously cheap running)








So this is my way of doing it keeping the turbo in its standard position, not gearbox mounting it as that requires some custom fabrication. Theres other ways of doing things im sure but im only gonna write about what Ive done.


Firstly theres 2 turbo set ups on the 2.1 Lumps, the XM/605 lump that puts the turbo on top of the manifold and the 406/Xantia lump that mounts it straight out the back of the manifold however from what i can see both appear to be in pretty much exactly the same place and both have the hotside on the drivers side of the car so have to route their outlet elbow under the turbo to get anywhere near the exhaust tunnel.



So where to start.....


Essentially the lump drops straight in on standard mounts with a standard 306 flywheel, clutch and gearbox. Its the details thatll get you.



So

The engine itself is taller for the longer stroke and also the head is bigger for the 12valves and with the inlet running over the top of the engine this makes it a very tall lump, the top of the manifold sits about 10-20mm higher than the being level with the top of the wings. I think on a ph1 this would be a big issue, as it is I have a ph3 bonnet with the bulge in it and had about 15-25mm clearance

Youll need to use a 306 Bosch pump set up and injectors but youll have to bend the fuel lines to get them to fit. Use all the 306s standard fuel lines too.

You need to bolt the 306 upper engine mounting arm and 306 bottom engine mount to the XUD11 lump.

A standard 306 gearbox and flywheel bolts straight up but you will need to drill and tap the back of the block for an RPM sensor. Just measure the 306 block across 2 of the fly wheel bolt holes with a straight edge to see how far out you need to drill the new hole.

You use the standard 306 Starter motor

You cant fit the turbo closer to the block in a 306 orientation as it will hit the water manifold at the back of the block that is substantially larger than the 306 one as it houses the thermostat.

The turbo oil return pipe will foul the gear linkage meaning you cant get 2nd, 4th or reverse, trim the rubber at the bottom and unbolt it from the turbo mount then use 2 cable ties round the engine mount to pull it about 20mm towards he driver side.

The 306 water pipe that runs alongside the engine is slightly too small to fit on the water rail but with a bit of washing up liquid and swearing it will go on.

The water pipe that runs vertically from the water manifold fouls the master cylinder, heat it and bend it so it sits between the first 2 runners of the inlet manifold.

The thermostat housing (with the fuel filter housing on top) from the 306 block can be swapped to the XUD11 block as then you keep the 306 sensors and also loose a water hose that would of been unused otherwise.

The thermostat is in the water rail on the XUD11 so you can remove the 306 one or the XUD11 one or leave them both in (as I have).

Use the 306s Alternator and power steering set up and bracket but youll need to grind a bit off the sump to fit the bracket.

The turbo outlet is the main bit that fouls. It sits on the steering column UJ right on the bolted bit and its flange. Youll need to heat the pipe and put a dent in it and also grind down the bolt and the flanges a little. Group N engine mounts will also help solve this issue as its worst under acceleration when the engine rocks backwards.

The other bit the turbo outlet fouls is the drivers foot well at the start of the exhaust tunnel right up high just under the cross member of the bulkhead. Be careful as the heater matrix is just above this and youll need to knock it in towards the pedals by what is probably a good couple of inches.

Youll also need to cut out/flatten with a big hammer a long section of the box section that runs across the back of the bay to stop the turbo hitting it.

Youll need to fit a FMIC as it dosent have the option of a TMIC.

The wastegate is a piece of piss to adjust when its off the car.

Use the 306 wiring loom.

If youve knocked enough out of the exhaust tunnle a peugeot 605 front pipe will bolt straight up (early ones didnt have a cat) and its a good fit in the tunnel.

Youll then need a 3dr TD/HDi center section shortened by about 12 inches (the exact length of the center box if you buy from ECP) but when we cut the box out we found the 2 bits left sleeved inside each other so would be easy to weld (we hammered, sealed and drilled and bolted them together).

We then found the back box didnt meet the center by about 2 inches, we could of bent the hangers but we very carefully cut the hangar off the box and used a f*ck massive jubilee clip to re attach the hangar 2 inches further down the box.










And thats about it. Im not gonna talk you through every pipe but have a good supply of bits of hose and youll do well.

It will need a FMIC but if your gonna do an engine swap you can manage to bodge on a FMIC.









So what youll need and its costings.

Engine - £70-£300 Mine was £250. Itll need to come with water manifold, turbo and upper and lower inlet manifolds, everything else really is best replaced with 306 bits.

FMIC kit - £50-£500 Mine was £180. The inlet manifold is 60mm and the turbo outlet is 54mm OD so a 2.25" kit will just have enough stretch to fit both of those.

Bosch pump lines and injectors - Free-£30-£300 Mine was FREE as it was on the car before hand. The semi ECU pump these have as standard wont like being swapped about You might well want to fit this with a 10mm or 11mm pump as ive already maxed my 9mm pump and im only just hazing on boost.

Gearbox - Free-£100 Mine was £50. You can use a standard DTurbo box (or any BE series box for that matter really) but ive gone for a 306 HDi box as it gives longer ratios that suit this engine better and it does 2000rpm at 60mph on the motorway and at that speed gives over 60mpg.

Exhaust bits - 605 front pipe was £50 and the center section was £25 brand new


Obviously its advisable to do all the service bits when swapping it over plus cam belt, water pump and a clutch and thatll add another £300 to your total.










If you want to do it KrisB french car specialist did mine with me getting in the way alot he can be contacted www.krisb.co.uk and I reckon he'd want all the parts and 2 days labor to do it, maybe a little more as just swapping so much stuff over is time consuming although none of it is particularly difficult.

Brilliant work Dum Dum.
Tell me something: I havê a Toyota Corolla E11 from 2001 which came with DW8 from factory. I ve been thinking in swap it for the xud9te. Hould it be possível to swap it for he Xud11? I use Lucas pump and the Car has immobilizer.
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#62
thats an interesting thought.

I would wana see pictures of the engine mounts and what gearbox it uses first.

Immobilizer is easy to get round....12v ignition wire, job done.
Wishes for more power...
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#63
Yeah I'd want to see the engine bay before I said it would fit but essentially swap the 2.1 to a bosch and then you can do away with the immobiliser. It only needs a 12v live to the stop solenoid on the fuel pump
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#64
(04-12-2014, 11:33 AM)Piggy Wrote: thats an interesting thought.

I would wana see pictures of the engine mounts and what gearbox it uses first.

Immobilizer is easy to get round....12v ignition wire, job done.
You can see gearbox is BL5 type but commands are hydraulics and clutch is also hydraulics with 215mm plate with 18 teeth (looked like the one 306 1.9 TD has in series).
Also put images of engine mounts. Engine has one left and the others (front,rear and right) are all connected to gearbox.
Fixation of gearbox to engine is made by only 3 screws on top and 1 screw side of rear mount and thats it.
There is a picture where I hope you can see injection pump but if you don't please tell me so I can take pictures of her solo. It's a Lucas pump with 2 connectors plus one for number 1 injector (Lucas RB844... type).
Important note: above the top of the DW8 engine, I get 38 mm till it touch the hood and gearbox stays away 22mm from left stringer of the car.
So, what you think can be done?
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#65
38mm isnt alot of clearance above the engine as the 2.1 inlet is big and runs over the engine. It might fit but only just

Width is the same and I reckon you could bolt your standard mountings to the XUD11 block
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#66
(08-12-2014, 02:27 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: 38mm isnt alot of clearance above the engine as the 2.1 inlet is big and runs over the engine. It might fit but only just

Width is the same and I reckon you could bolt your standard mountings to the XUD11 block

While mesuring my engine from the base of the right mount to the highest point which is the inlet manifold I get 255 mm. Can you check if yours is much higher?
Also, my car has ECU, do you think it will be a problem?
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#67
I can't check engine height as i sold mine

Don't worry about the ECU, run it on a bosch fuel pump and you'll be fine. I put mine in a car that ran modern ECU high pressure direct injection and it was fine with that removed, just needed different clocks and a couple of alterations to the loom.


Edit: obviously I've never worked on a toyota so can't promise this.
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#68
I can do some measurements for you but bear in mind that the engine may sit differently and be mounted at a different point on the engine to yours
Wishes for more power...
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#69
(09-12-2014, 10:32 PM)Piggy Wrote: I can do some measurements for you but bear in mind that the engine may sit differently and be mounted at a different point on the engine to yours

Yeah well about that I keep asking myself about something: there is a picture on the thread I took where it shows the holes of right side of the bloc. Is there this very same holes (in same position) in the XUD9TE and XUD11?

(09-12-2014, 10:28 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: I can't check engine height as i sold mine

Don't worry about the ECU, run it on a bosch fuel pump and you'll be fine. I put mine in a car that ran modern ECU high pressure direct injection and it was fine with that removed, just needed different clocks and a couple of alterations to the loom.


Edit: obviously I've never worked on a toyota so can't promise this.

Course but something keeps bodering me: my car uses a mass air flow meter while the XUD9TE and XUD11 (as far as I know) have only air temperature sensor. How will I manage this? I just put the same mass air flow meter on the admission of the XUD11 and hope the ECU makes no diference or just remove it and exchange it for a simple temperature sensor?
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#70
Sack off all the electronics and just use a 12v wire on the fuel solenoid. Wire up starter and alternator and youre done
Wishes for more power...
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#71
(10-12-2014, 08:15 AM)Piggy Wrote: Sack off all the electronics and just use a 12v wire on the fuel solenoid. Wire up starter and alternator and youre done

Do you think Hill be able to use my alter ator and starter?
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#72
Just use the one on the 2.1!
Wishes for more power...
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#73
(10-12-2014, 07:58 PM)Piggy Wrote: Just use the one on the 2.1!

The engine I saw camess with no alter ator and no starter. Sorry for the question but how do I make that 12v wire you guys mention?
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#74
If you cant figure that out id be worries your fitting an engine.

But for arguments sake you need to find an ignition live and put it to the stop solinoid on the bosch pump. thats all. Easy
On a break from 306oc for personal reasons. If anyone needs or wants me most of you have my number and or facebook messenger
Thanks for the good times guys n gals. I might be back. Who knows.
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#75
(10-12-2014, 08:13 PM)bashbarnard Wrote: If you cant figure that out id be worries your fitting an engine.

But for arguments sake you need to find an ignition live and put it to the stop solinoid on the bosch pump. thats all. Easy

Thats nota exacly a crime. From two years no I learn has I go and Ive been doing my cars revisions and complicated exchanges with success. Not everyone borns knowing this.
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#76
Wasnt insulting you man. I started at the bottom. We all did. This is why the forum is here. We can help with things like this.
On a break from 306oc for personal reasons. If anyone needs or wants me most of you have my number and or facebook messenger
Thanks for the good times guys n gals. I might be back. Who knows.
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#77
I have got the same kind of impression to be honest.

You will need a complete engine imo.
Wishes for more power...
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#78
Its unlikely you'll be able to fit your alternator. Which starter you use depends on which gearbox your using.

I'll go and do you a wiring diagram for the wiring as I want to see your project work.

To find an ignition live get a multi meter, turn the knob into the volts area usually has a V sign on it and a set of choices like 0.02, 0.2, 2, 20, 200, 2000 pick the one that says 20. Make sure the battery is connected, turn the ignition on and jam the black multimeter lead into the negative battery terminal. Prod round various plugs and wires with the red probe to find some live wires (the screen will read just over 12v) then turn the ignition off and probe the wires again. any That were live and no longer are will be ignition lives, pick a nice thick one.





Right this is uber basic but the pointers are in the right place.

Main battery wire - Make it a monster thick bastard straight from the battery to the big terminal on the starter and then to the big terminal on the alternator.
Starter wire - this is the wire that spins the starter motor when you turn the key to the final position and is a momentary switch. Run it to the small ring terminal on the starter motor.
Stop solenoid wire - this doesn't need to be thick but it does need to give a GOOD solid 12 volts. You turn it on to start the car, keep it on to keep the car running and then turn it off to stop the engine. You run it to the terminal that has an 8mm nut thats on the stop solenoid.
Glow plug wire - You will NEED glow plugs running to start the 2.1TD. You can run it off a relay and a switch but they draw a HUGE current, they will melt any wire you'd normally use to wire stuff in. Use thick cable, genuinely the best system I've seen if Poodles 205 that runs battery cable and a FIA battery cut off style switch.

Everything earths through the engine back to the battery.

[attachment=20592]
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#79
(10-12-2014, 08:38 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: Its unlikely you'll be able to fit your alternator. Which starter you use depends on which gearbox your using.

I'll go and do you a wiring diagram for the wiring as I want to see your project work.

To find an ignition live get a multi meter, turn the knob into the volts area usually has a V sign on it and a set of choices like 0.02, 0.2, 2, 20, 200, 2000 pick the one that says 20. Make sure the battery is connected, turn the ignition on and jam the black multimeter lead into the negative battery terminal. Prod round various plugs and wires with the red probe to find some live wires (the screen will read just over 12v) then turn the ignition off and probe the wires again. any That were live and no longer are will be ignition lives, pick a nice thick one.





Right this is uber basic but the pointers are in  the right place.

Main battery wire - Make it a monster thick bastard straight from the battery to the big terminal on the starter and then to the big terminal on the alternator.
Starter wire - this is the wire that spins the starter motor when you turn the key to the final position and is a momentary switch. Run it to the small ring terminal on the starter motor.
Stop solenoid wire - this doesn't need to be thick but it does need to give a GOOD solid 12 volts. You turn it on to start the car, keep it on to keep the car running and then turn it off to stop the engine. You run it to the terminal that has an 8mm nut thats on the stop solenoid.
Glow plug wire - You will NEED glow plugs running to start the 2.1TD. You can run it off a relay and a switch but they draw a HUGE current, they will melt any wire you'd normally use to wire stuff in. Use thick cable, genuinely the best system I've seen if Poodles 205 that runs battery cable and a FIA battery cut off style switch.

Everything earths through the engine back to the battery.

Thanks all of you guys for your feedback. Sorry for my reaction but here in Portugal Diys are bad treatted só most of US are pretty nervous when some say we may not  be able to do some. Anyway still havê a lot of mechanics visita when they dont know what to do more in a Car... Gess Im nota só dum hás I might think.
Só, for what I can tell I should buy engine whith all things right?
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#80
Pretty much what dum sum has said although I'm sure the alternator needs a 12v exciter wire. So one more wire to alternator could be wrong though
On a break from 306oc for personal reasons. If anyone needs or wants me most of you have my number and or facebook messenger
Thanks for the good times guys n gals. I might be back. Who knows.
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#81
What gearbox are you using?

Is it the standard Toyota gearbox?
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#82
(10-12-2014, 09:33 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: What gearbox are you using?

Is it the standard Toyota gearbox?

Dum Dum thanks again sow much for your help.
Gearbox is a BL5 type so I have shure it's a PSA gearbox type and not Toyota. However I must confess some doubts persist.
My gearbox has imcorporated a clutch with 215mm disc size with 18 teeth. This configuration is equal of every Peugeot 306 TD. But every other models which use my engine has a simple 200 mm plate size??!!
What I have to do? Shall the flywheel of the 2.1 fit in my gearboz and prime with 215 mm plate or I have to chenge it all?
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#83
My opinion is use the 215mm flywheel off your standard XUD9 engine as it gives the best chance that your rev counter will work but its not a conversion that I have done so I just dont know.
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#84
(10-12-2014, 11:08 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: My opinion is use the 215mm flywheel off your standard XUD9 engine as it gives the best chance that your rev counter will work but its not a conversion that I have done so I just dont know.

Whell but when you have made your own convertion you did count with a 215 mm plate cause it was the standing in your 306 or not??
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#85
I used a 215mm clutch from the XUD9 306 on the XUD9 306 flywheel as I know they are easy to get hold of, easy to get upgrades for and will hold the power.
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#86
(10-12-2014, 11:38 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: I used a 215mm clutch from the XUD9 306 on the XUD9 306 flywheel as I know they are easy to get hold of, easy to get upgrades for and will hold the power.

That was one of my wories: that the clutch I have hould hold the torque of the Xud11.
So the 306 td flywheel will bolt correctely on the Xud11, right?
You mention something on your toturial about having to drill for the speed sensor or have I not understand? If the gearbox bolt correctely on the engine I dont understand why it is needed.
One more thing, one big problem you had was the turbo fitting against the steering mechanism but here we use left and driving so Ill not going to have that issue right?

(10-12-2014, 08:29 PM)Piggy Wrote: I have got the same kind of impression to be honest.

You will need a complete engine imo.

Piggy, its unlikely Ill have much problems with mounts because 3 of them connect to the gearbox and only the top right mount goes to the engine. If you check onde the photos I took to it, you can see it is completely different from yours but I expect it to bolt in the engine in similar holes. Did you use your previous mounts?
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#87
(11-12-2014, 07:34 PM)machsantos Wrote:
(10-12-2014, 11:38 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: I used a 215mm clutch from the XUD9 306 on the XUD9 306 flywheel as I know they are easy to get hold of, easy to get upgrades for and will hold the power.

That was one of my wories: that the clutch I have hould hold the torque of the Xud11.
So the 306 td flywheel will bolt correctely on the Xud11, right?
You mention something on your toturial about having to drill for the speed sensor or have I not understand? If the gearbox bolt correctely on the engine I dont understand why it is needed.
One more thing, one big problem you had was the turbo fitting against the steering mechanism but here we use left and driving so Ill not going to have that issue right?

So??


(10-12-2014, 08:29 PM)Piggy Wrote: I have got the same kind of impression to be honest.

You will need a complete engine imo.

Piggy, its unlikely Ill have much problems with mounts because 3 of them connect to the gearbox and only the top right mount goes to the engine. If you check onde the photos I took to it, you can see it is completely different from yours but I expect it to bolt in the engine in similar holes. Did you use your previous mounts?
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#88
(10-12-2014, 08:38 PM)Dum-Dum Wrote: Its unlikely you'll be able to fit your alternator. Which starter you use depends on which gearbox your using.

I'll go and do you a wiring diagram for the wiring as I want to see your project work.

To find an ignition live get a multi meter, turn the knob into the volts area usually has a V sign on it and a set of choices like 0.02, 0.2, 2, 20, 200, 2000 pick the one that says 20. Make sure the battery is connected, turn the ignition on and jam the black multimeter lead into the negative battery terminal. Prod round various plugs and wires with the red probe to find some live wires (the screen will read just over 12v) then turn the ignition off and probe the wires again. any That were live and no longer are will be ignition lives, pick a nice thick one.





Right this is uber basic but the pointers are in  the right place.

Main battery wire - Make it a monster thick bastard straight from the battery to the big terminal on the starter and then to the big terminal on the alternator.
Starter wire - this is the wire that spins the starter motor when you turn the key to the final position and is a momentary switch. Run it to the small ring terminal on the starter motor.
Stop solenoid wire - this doesn't need to be thick but it does need to give a GOOD solid 12 volts. You turn it on to start the car, keep it on to keep the car running and then turn it off to stop the engine. You run it to the terminal that has an 8mm nut thats on the stop solenoid.
Glow plug wire - You will NEED glow plugs running to start the 2.1TD. You can run it off a relay and a switch but they draw a HUGE current, they will melt any wire you'd normally use to wire stuff in. Use thick cable, genuinely the best system I've seen if Poodles 205 that runs battery cable and a FIA battery cut off style switch.

Everything earths through the engine back to the battery.

Thanks a lot Dum Dum, but not shure I undertood the all thing. So please correct me where I'm wrong or where I don't know:
Thick wire from ignition live wire -> Positive on Battery;
Thick wire from the big terminal on the alternator and big terminal on the starter -> Positive on Battery;
Thick wire from glow plugs -> ?;
Good cable from stop solenoid -> ?.

Also, my DW8 has an ECU. Should I just disconnect it? Mass air flow meter to?
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#89
Yeah sack off the DW8 ecu and electric sensory bollocks.

Thick wire from alternator to big post on starter then from the big post on the starter to the battery positive.

Glow plug wire to a suitable relay and switch arrangement.

Stop solenoid to ignition live

Small post on the starter to a momentary ignition live

Oh and apologies. You shouldn't have the steering issue with being left hand drive.

The xud9 flywheel and clutch bolts straight on.

I don't know how the tacho on the DW8 works but on the xud9 it is drilled through the webbing at the rear of the block facing the back of the fly wheel. The xud11 does not have a hole for this.
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#90
(27-02-2015, 07:04 AM)Dum-Dum Wrote: Yeah sack off the DW8 ecu and electric sensory bollocks.

Thick wire from alternator to big post on starter then from the big post on the starter to the battery positive.

Glow plug wire to a suitable relay and switch arrangement.

Stop solenoid to ignition live

Small post on the starter to a momentary ignition live


Oh and apologies. You shouldn't have the steering issue with being left hand drive.

The xud9 flywheel and clutch bolts straight on.

I don't know how the tacho on the DW8 works but on the xud9 it is drilled through the webbing at the rear of the block facing the back of the fly wheel. The xud11 does not have a hole for this.

Hello mate,  DW8 faces the flywheel throu a gearbox hole. 
Is glow plug wiring needed to start XUD9TE or is it only needed on XUD11?
One other thing,  I understood how to find the live ignition wire has you explained but how do I find the momentary live wire? 
Thanks again
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