302mm vs GTi6 brakes

[Pompey306mark]

front 306 246mm 4.14kg
rear 306 247mm 2.57kg ...307 (246.5mm) 3.04
front 306 266mm 4.7kg ....307 266mm 5kg
front 306 283mm 5.95kg... 307 283mm 6.74kg
front................................307 302mm 8.42kg
weights taken from eurocarparts website

Thats just the weight of the discs. Not including the extra weight of the caliper.

[Ed Doe]

1. Brembos are substantially heavier per corner, increasing unsprung weight which will deaden turn-in. [/geek-hat]
2. Most on here can vouch for how hard I tend to drive the '6. I've NEVER suffered from brake fade. I'm running decent fluid, brembo discs (cause I'm a brand-whore) and mintex 1144 pads. They're not even the best combo going; 55's or ds2500s would be better still! Hell, most of the proper track-whores on the '6 forum use CL6 pads with standard gti calipers which are UBER hardcore, and I've never heard stories of these fading on track...

Therefore I entirely agree with Ruan & JP; the only reason you'd need to upgrade brakes is for willy-waving, or filling out the space under a bigger set of wheels, or if you're running significantly more power and regularly tracking/racing it for long periods.

I will also say however, that if i had the cash kicking about, I would be straight on a set of Renaultsport Megane Brembos or APracing 4-pots.
JUST because they look porno

[jammapic]

^^^ Same setup I use Ed... never once had them fade, even on track.

JP

[darrenjlobb]

Which is also what I was saying....only I have 17" wheels, like you JP, and imo, the '6 brakes look more than lost in behind them lol!

[Rippthrough]

There was a big difference in comfort, turn in and responsiveness on my discs and that was only going from 5kg to 2kg per disc - and no change in caliper weight...and discs the same size, not larger diameter with a higher MOI.

Problem with comparing on standard pads is that the fade resistance for E90 approval is basically a test you could get through with pads made from cornflakes, so there can be massive variations between brands of 'standard' pads.

[Ed Doe]

Problem with comparing on standard pads is that the fade resistance for E90 approval is basically a test you could get through with pads made from cornflakes, so there can be massive variations between brands of 'standard' pads.

In a word LOL! So true though, I didn't realise how different pads were until I got the '6; I just bunged the 'Champion' ones sold as 'premium' at Halfrauds and thought they were pretty good before lol!

Money no object, I would seriously consider a nice set of 4-pots, primarily for bling purposes, but also to see how light I could get them. but that costs a lot, so I'm happy with a set-up that just works for now

EDIT: Ripp, did you get my ridiculously rambling pm on the '6 forum? Any thoughts?

[padge]

Jp, i always thought you ran 302? :/ in every spec list i've seen you say 302 lol, anyway, i got mine to fill the 17's up more and because the calipers and discs were 70quid local be mad not to get them, when i was at yours jp, i was thinking your brakes looked smaller than mine.

[Rippthrough]

EDIT: Ripp, did you get my ridiculously rambling pm on the '6 forum? Any thoughts?

Yeah, I just need a spare hour to write a similarly long rambling reply

[Pompey306mark]

On another note of weight. My Hi spec calipers are 3kgs each lighter than the 6 caliper.

[Ruan]

On another note of weight. My Hi spec calipers are 3kgs each lighter than the 6 caliper.

Isn't that nice.

Well done.

[Pompey306mark]

Eveyone is talking about brakes and weight so I thought I would let people know.

The wilwoods are 2kgs lighter than the 6 calipers too.

People are moaning about the extra weight of bigger brakes, but you dont have to increase the weight to get better brakes.

[Ed Doe]

LOL

Cheers for the info Pompey; money no object id be upgrading to lighter items, but I'm more than happy with the stopping power I've got for now!!

[Pompey306mark]

Ed you can get them for cheaper it just keeping an eye out for them. I got my setup for £250.

Normally they are £600 brand new.

[Ed Doe]

Ed you can get them for cheaper it just keeping an eye out for them. I got my setup for £250.

Normally they are £600 brand new.

So hold on, you got discs, pads and calipers for £250? Do you need any adapters for the calipers to fit to the hubs? Do you need any bells (lol) to fit the discs or are they one-piece?

Suddenly very interested

[Jonny81191]

^this! Where, how, when!!!

[Atterz]

With the exception of Darren which i can vouch for, with having to slow down/stop on the lanes after going out for an almighty full power hoon, i cant see how anyone would make their brakes fade on the road even during spirited driving, unless you was driving like a complete penis?

I still think that Darren would have been better with some decent pads in his 6 brakes, however i know he has his reasons for 302mm's ie filling the gap behind the 17s! However, for everybody else unless running big wheels i hardly see the point? Good pads combined with regularly changed brake fluid (Ie at least once every 2 years which is recommended but mostly ignored by many people) will be perfect on the road and on track if you drive with respect to your car.

Id only even consider bigger brakes (AP's,RS Brembo setup etc) if my car was a full on track car.

And finally ... 302s means you cant have 15inch wheels, and 15 inch wheels means cheap tyres .

[Ed Doe]

And finally ... 302s means you cant have 15inch wheels, and 15 inch wheels means cheap tyres .

Cheapskate

I agree tbh; if you're getting fade there are better pads options out there. If you wanna willywave, or when every last kilo of unsprung weight counts, then bigger brakes are a must

[Jonny81191]

Looks more like I'm going for GTi ones now, I can't find any 302's at all

[Pompey306mark]

Came with the adaptors.

Discs were second hand but are still going strong now after a year and just passed the MOT.

I got them from ebay. I have seen three other sets in the past year all the same all for roughly the same price.

Light weight good brakes.

[Atterz]

Cheapskate?.....




















Too bloody right .

[Dum-Dum]

[Atterz]

And again, 15 inch wheels imo are best for track unless you are running proper 4 pot+ big brakes and need 16 for clearance. How the f*ck you are making GTI brakes on the road i would love to know honestly! Or is it a case of accelerate as fast as you can down the straight, slam on and then take the corner nice and slow and then repeat?

For the small benefits i dont see the point for a road car (used normally) not to trash up and down corran heights.

[Ed Doe]

So much shite in here.
Ed, Brembos are lighter than standard HDi 266mm calipers
Also all this shit about bigger brakes not stopping you quicker cos shit brakes have enough power to lock your wheels is rubbish. Are you seriously trying to tell me that we may as well all run the 247mm set up off the 1.4 cos that can lock wheels.
I dont understand the science of why they stop you better but they do. When I get new brakes I do a stopping test from 100mph on the same bit of road and the 302s and 330 brembos have been the best by a couple of car lengths.
Darren, 6 brakes are easy enough to cook, here is a video of mine looking like a sparkler on mintex pads.
302s were a definate improvement on GTi brakes with redstuff too

1. A lot more shit in here now you've come up with the above...

2. The calipers are heavier. The discs are RIDICULOUSLY heavy, because unlike properly sorted discs for track-use, theyre one-piece, not floating discs. So theres a WHOLE LOAD of heavy metal where in a proper brake set-up there would be lovely light (anodised mmmmmmm :wub: ) alloy. end of.

3. The 'lock up' rule is irrelevant. Yes you can do that with 1.4 brakes about once. But doing it after a heavy drive I think was (Ruans?) original point. Decent pads and decent, regularly changed brake fluid is all you need.

4. The science is essential if only to provide a proper test! Different ambient temperatures, different tyre temperatures, different loads in the car, different brake fluid (age & type), pads (and to a far lesser extent discs) to the gti brakes you're comparing them to... I could continue.

5. Sparks from the brakes doesn't prove anything. If you're putting your foot hardon the brakes and the pedal is going to the floor, your brakes have faded. Not when sparks come from them.

I stand by the point I made earlier; stock '6 calipers, really shit-hot pads, and any old discs will stop just as good as brembos, but will have reduced unsprung weight, and will therefore improve the handling of the car.

[Dum-Dum]

2. The calipers are heavier. The discs are RIDICULOUSLY heavy, because unlike properly sorted discs for track-use, theyre one-piece, not floating discs. So theres a WHOLE LOAD of heavy metal where in a proper brake set-up there would be lovely light (anodised mmmmmmm :wub: ) alloy. end of.

5. Sparks from the brakes doesn't prove anything. If you're putting your foot hardon the brakes and the pedal is going to the floor, your brakes have faded. Not when sparks come from them.

2, The brembo calipers are lighter, Ive had them side by side in my hands in the last week. The discs are similar weights. Ill see if i can weigh a set at some point soon.

5, Sparks prove the heat there. Sparks are nearly fire.

[jammapic]

You guys must be using BILLY BUDGET pads if you are getting sparks.

I have NEVER EVER seen sparks from my brakes, and I have driven cars SILLY hard. Even when I completely cooked my BMW's brakes on the Nurburgring, there was plenty of smoke, a horrible smell but no sparks at all. That was on stock BMW pads.

JP

[Pompey306mark]

The weights of the disc's and some of the calipers are on the front page.

[Pompey306mark]

On ebay now more than what I paid, but the disc last for ages, and these have braided lines.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-Spec-4-Pot ... 256ad00ee7

[Ian]

On ebay now more than what I paid, but the disc last for ages, and these have braided lines.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-Spec-4-Pot ... 256ad00ee7

Oh bugger, im tempted!!

[Ed Doe]

You guys must be using BILLY BUDGET pads if you are getting sparks

Don't tar me with the same brush!!! 1144s thanks! I'll be swapping up to 1155s next time though

And Mark, shit I'm tempted by those!!

[Pompey306mark]

They are good brakes. If you had been in my car you would be buying them right now, I have no doubt of that.