Stage 2 map cut out now wont start :(

[Chris_90]

Well got a stage 2 limited toque map today put it on car went for a drive cut out a couple of times turned it off wait a few seconds then started straight away, 2 mins later foot to floor agin cuts out agin this time wont start, put standard map on try agin wont start, ring recovary they come out bit of easy start fires up they said its primeing pump in tank so I buy a brand new 1 £80 and still exatly same, so the car is now at a garage they guy says its not reading enought pressure to start the car he says either injector or rail sensor can any one else think what could cause this? Any help welcome please

[darrenjlobb]

Would imagine its cutting out due to low rail pressure...so would imagine either rail pressure sensor, high pressure pump, fuel filter, or maybe lift pump in tank...

[lolsteve]

Fuel filter is one I'd check first since you'll have to be dealing with it to get to the pressure sensors/regulators and it's prettyeasy /cheap to do and no doubt needs doing anyway.

[Chris_90]

Fuel filter was changed 5,000 miles ago but i have just bought a genuine Peugeot filter before this happened so will drop that off at garage see if that makes any difference but i didnt that that would make any difference in pressure?? for the starting issue

[Poodle]

Check out my project thread and the stickied thread in the guide section, might be some useful clues in there.

[Chris_90]

Got the car back today guy said high pressure pump on way out, he took the fuel pipe off blow it though with commpresed air and its now starting, to me I think it had sucked some shite though the cheapo fuel filter and blocked the hp pump what do you guys think?? Dont want to be replaceing hp pump if it was only some shit sucked though

[Poodle]

See how it goes fella, if it keeps cutting out do some more testing and see what you find.

[Chris_90]

Well I put a remap back on it and its still cutting out ive swaped fuel filter for genuine peugeot and its had new lift pump, gave up at the min to stressed with it

[cully]

one of four things left or a combination
1 injectors excessive leakage
2 fuel pressure sensor reading wrong data
3 high pressure pump not capable of sustained high pressure flow
4 fuel pressure regulator valve

[Chris_90]

Injectors were tested and come back good as for all other stuff how can I test them?

[Poodle]

http://306oc.co.uk/forum/thread-1497.html

High pressure pump you can't test yourself, unless you have a flow bench. FPR you can check by giving it a clean out with some WD40 or similar and refitting, or swapping ti with a known-working one. Fuel pressure sensor is harder to test, but if you plug a multimeter in you should see ~1.3v at cranking speeds. Be very careful to keep everything really clean when you're working on your fuel system, a little bit of dirt can go a long way towards causing more problems.

[gareth7]

at 160K my bets your Fuel Pump can't keep up mate.......

[Chris_90]

http://306oc.co.uk/forum/thread-1497.html

High pressure pump you can't test yourself, unless you have a flow bench. FPR you can check by giving it a clean out with some WD40 or similar and refitting, or swapping ti with a known-working one. Fuel pressure sensor is harder to test, but if you plug a multimeter in you should see ~1.3v at cranking speeds. Be very careful to keep everything really clean when you're working on your fuel system, a little bit of dirt can go a long way towards causing more problems.

Thats a very good guide never spotted that before but i really carnt be bothered to go round the car trying to find out whats up at min, i could do with a garage that can test all this stuff, i have a high pressure pump in shed but last thing i want to do is fit that and it be worse than the one i have already

at 160K my bets your Fuel Pump can't keep up mate.......

There so expensive for a new one carnt justify spending £250+ on the car right at this min would rather spend £250 on a xud conversion thats going though my mind at the min

[gareth7]

Find a lower mileage R70 pump instead, my mate had issues with his standard pump after pro_steve put a Stage 1 map on his. He fitted an R70 from a C5 and hasn't had any problems whatsoever since.......and he well under half of £250 for the R70 pump.

[Poodle]

Have a word with your local diesel specialist, well worth paying the extra over a standard garage. And that's assuming the normal garage gets it right first time lol, much better odds with a bosch specialist.

Or go with Gareth's plan, pretty sure he's on the money if your injectors and lift pump are fine.

[gareth7]

It would also be worth taking the FPR off the pump and giving it a good clean in thinners, take the rubber seals off first though. If after that it still keeps cutting out and everything else ie injectors, lift pump etc are all known to be fine then start looking for a lower mileage R70 pump......we rang around a few local breakers and they were readily available at reasonable prices (£100-£120). There's always plenty on Ebay too......

[Chris_90]

It would also be worth taking the FPR off the pump and giving it a good clean in thinners, take the rubber seals off first though. If after that it still keeps cutting out and everything else ie injectors, lift pump etc are all known to be fine then start looking for a lower mileage R70 pump......we rang around a few local breakers and they were readily available at reasonable prices (£100-£120). There's always plenty on Ebay too......

I carnt see how you can get to the fuel pressure regulataor it tried yesterday but i carnt get any tools in the tight space i can do it at scrap yard as i just ragged all the shit out the way but dont wana do that on mine, my car is up for swaps for a d turbo at min if i do keep it i might go down the r70 pump rote would i need to get it put in to my remap to get it to start?? or will it start straight away and then i can get a remap at a later date??

[Poodle]

It's possible to access it as it is, but is easier if you move a couple of things that are in the way. You wouldn't need a remap, it's a plug and play jobby.

[Mr Whippy]

Hi Chris,

I assume you are Chris C who has been emailing me about this too?

If you are happy to try a different remap file out I'll provide it on the basis that if we get something positive from it that you remember the time I'll have put in


I'm not guaranteeing anything, we can go to a stage 1 remap and work up from there and try find out what is causing issues. If the pump is worn maybe it can't make the requested pressures for the big mid-range injections and high rail pressures being requested on this map. As said I can't guarantee much about this remap file as a basis, there are a few things both Pete and I were not happy with in it, so it'd be good for the purposes of assuring things ARE all car related and potentially not map related to get to a *fully* understood map before going further


Cheers

Dave

[Chris_90]

Hi Chris,

I assume you are Chris C who has been emailing me about this too?

If you are happy to try a different remap file out I'll provide it on the basis that if we get something positive from it that you remember the time I'll have put in


I'm not guaranteeing anything, we can go to a stage 1 remap and work up from there and try find out what is causing issues. If the pump is worn maybe it can't make the requested pressures for the big mid-range injections and high rail pressures being requested on this map. As said I can't guarantee much about this remap file as a basis, there are a few things both Pete and I were not happy with in it, so it'd be good for the purposes of assuring things ARE all car related and potentially not map related to get to a *fully* understood map before going further


Cheers

Dave

Yes that is me lol, yer thats the plan to start from scratch with the standard map, go to stage 1 and carry on from there and see how i get on with it but at the min im skint (after just spending nearly £200 on the car going in garage after it cut out and wouldnt start agin) if i end up keeping the car and once i have the money im wanting you to do the map files for me..... but im really tempted to get rid and go for a d turbo at the min so not sure what is happening if i could get more power out of the car i would be tempted to keep it im also tempted to go down the r70 pump route aswell i just want to start seeing some gains from my work as its really piss's me off that ive intercooled the car and at the min for no reason i wish i never did it tbh and just did a stage one map and be done with it.... but i will just see how i get on and if i can get the power out of it, it will have been worth all this ball ache

Has any one got any links to some cheap r70 pumps???

[Mr Whippy]

I think a problem going right to R70 on a limited budget is that you might end up buying a duff pump and compound the problems again, or find it needs some money spending and just end up with an even bigger bill to get it all ok.

Best to work forward and try work out what is wrong, then decide at that point what your plan/budget allow.

Don't buy anything unless it makes good sense to do it...


As said, I'm happy to support you now to get a solution that works for now.


Cheers

Dave

[Chris_90]

well its died tonight for the final time :-( looks like its time for a new high pressure pump and see how i get on, i found on at euro car parts for £250 after the 306 discount so looking like its going to be that

[Poodle]

Sorry to hear that fella, has it stopped starting again or have you just lost patience with it? I didn't realise ECP did refurbished pumps, crazy!

[Chris_90]

i just gave up my mate said (the garage i go to) if its cut out while driveing i was bearly touching the pedal then pump must have died so just have to have a new/recon one, its only running a safe 120bhp map that mr wippy made so its not like im pushing it to its limits :-( last time i buy a hdi never agin lol saying that now ive spent this much on it. it best last me a long time

EDIT: Just been on phone to euro car parts with out useing the online code and manged to knock them down to £240 all in so not to bad will get pump of to garage and wait to see if its fixed

[Mr Whippy]

It might not be the pump but it's hard to say without checking lots of things over.

Stuff like the rail relief valve might be really dirty and sticky.

Has anyone read off a fault code yet?

Any specific reasons why you think it's the pump and not something else (ie, already checked other stuff?)


All that said, cutting out at partial throttle at low load on the remap it has now is a bad sign, it'd have done it with OEM map...

Really it could only be two things I think, rail relief valve very clogged/sticking or HP pump as you have diagnosed. Just I'd hate to see you get a new HP pump and find the problem was the relief valve
Worth checking/cleaning for 30mins work before spending £240 any way!

Good luck

Dave

[Oil-burner]

I've got a code reader Chris if you want me to run a quick diag

[Chris_90]

The garage I went to did digenostics on the car and he said it was the high pressure pump there was a few fault codes that come off, but I dont no what. Just bought the recon pump and its now at garage waiting to be fitted just waiting till he can get it fitted might be middle of week :-(

[Chris_90]

Well got the car back to day had a recon high pressure pump also had new water pump, all seems well at the min been on a 40mile drive and no problems so far, ive deiced that im going start putting 2 stroke in the fuel to lube every thing up hopefuly prevent damage to the pump, will see how it gose for next few days going to blackpool on sunday 200mile round drive so hope it holds up well.

Any one no were I can get 5 liters or bigger of 2 stroke cheap im filling up ever week so I will use it in no time

[Poodle]

Glad to hear it's all working as it should.

Motor factors should be able to order big containers of 2-stroke in, even if they haven't got it in stock. You won't need to use much though, if any...

[Chris_90]

I will have to see I could only get 1 liter one from my local place