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Bosch pump max fuel and idle settings issue
#1
Hello gentlemen, since getting a benchmark power figure I have decided to start playing with the Bosch unit (it's been a long time acomin') so I have been playing a bit and trying to find a setup that suits me. I have read the guides but I am not sure if it answers my questions as such. To start with,

I have the racist turbocharger (kkk k14).

I have had 15 psi from just adjusting the pump at 3k RPM but it got to 17 psi further into the rev range as the fueling was starting to drop. I adjusted the turbo to 22 psi which I thought was too much so I turned it back down to 19 psi. I then thought it was clean on boost at 19psi so I turned up the fuel more, there is coal off boost now (compared to when it was at 22psi) but still none on boost although it feels faster than when it had less fuel but more boost.

So how do people normally set the right fuel and air ratio for these beasts? I could turn up the fuelling until there is smoke on boost but I don't want to break it as I still have the collar on the max fuel screw but it is getting to the point where the collar stops me from turning it more! Not that that is what would break it but it gives you an idea of how high the fuelling is.

In addition to that, I have wound the boost compensator all the way out and there is still some slight coal off boost and none on boost. It is now easy to stall but would it really make a difference if I wind it back in? And more importantly, does the boost compensator affect the idle speed which I am having trouble with?

That brings me conveniently onto my next point. What is going on with the idle now I have turned up the fuelling? I know turning up the max fuelling will increase the idle but now it seems to have a mind of it's own, sometimes it will idle up high (1500RPM) and sometimes I will start alright and then it drops to 500 RPM. I have twiddled the hot and cold idle screws but it seems to me that they are adjusting relatively as to when the engine is running, when it starts playing up again they seem to need readjusting. The only thing that seems to help the idle problem is adjusting the cold start cable which seems to have a more absolute affect rather than a relative one.

Next mods I am hoping to do are LDA pin rotate and governor mod (the tricky one!).
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#2
Right theres alot to talk about in there;

- Diesels should run ever so slightly rich to make peak power so a very very light hazing of smoke on full blow is ideal

- Cold idle can only be adjusted when fully cold ie one attempt first thing in the morning and one attempt last thing at night per day but you can adjust them while the car is running.

- If you went to the level where you were running enough fuel to haze at 22psi you could probably remove the hot idle screw altogether.

- If once youve adjusted the idle screws all the way you can then start to remove the minimum throttle stop and bend the throttle arm to give more negative travel before it hits the pump casing.



Flynn Wrote:I have the racist turbocharger (kkk k14).
LOL, Probably inappropriate but definitely funny. lol lol lol
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#3
Thank you for your infinite wisdom Dum-Dum. But I did not state myself clearly. I have failed to get a light haze of smoke at 22psi or even 19psi.

I am happy running 19psi for the time being as it is only a standard setup and I don't have a boost controller yet and there was something about the K14 turbo not being properly controlled over 19psi apparently.

It is running clean at 19psi at the moment but I think if I turn up the fuelling up anymore then there will be on boost smoke. It was running lean at 22psi I think, it feels far more lively at 19psi and more fuel.

I neglected to mention that I have lost the screw off the back of the throttle arm, not sure what it does through. The Haynes seems to show a Bosch that has slightly different design to most of them but it does mention an anti stall screw, could this be it?

Also does the boost compensator have an effect on the idle or is it just the air and fuel mixture off boost? Thanks.
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#4
Flynn Wrote:Thank you for your infinite wisdom Dum-Dum. But I did not state myself clearly. I have failed to get a light haze of smoke at 22psi or even 19psi.

I am happy running 19psi for the time being as it is only a standard setup and I don't have a boost controller yet and there was something about the K14 turbo not being properly controlled over 19psi apparently.

It is running clean at 19psi at the moment but I think if I turn up the fuelling up anymore then there will be on boost smoke. It was running lean at 22psi I think, it feels far more lively at 19psi and more fuel.

I neglected to mention that I have lost the screw off the back of the throttle arm, not sure what it does through. The Haynes seems to show a Bosch that has slightly different design to most of them but it does mention an anti stall screw, could this be it?

Also does the boost compensator have an effect on the idle or is it just the air and fuel mixture off boost? Thanks.


If I am reading this right you are saying that the anti tamper thing is still on the max fuel screw, man up and remove it!!! Wind in the max fuel untill you have the on boost haze which dum dum explained. This will up the idle again but it can then be brought back down using the anti-stall screw and hot idle screw.

None of the lda set up has any effect on the idle speed. Lift the lid of the lda housing, (4 screws, usually 3 flat head and 1 torx) remove the pin and bin the little white spacer. This will allow the pin more travel.
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#5
I'm planning to get rid of the hot idle screw completely as it doesn't seem to do anything. I planned the LDA mod already, that will be my next mod until I set this up how I'm happy with. I need to find a new anti stall screw, perhaps I will just use the hot idle screw haha! Thanks for explaining about the LDA screw. Does it literally effect fuelling off boost then? With it wound right out could that make it too lean off boost and prone to stalling? Thanks.
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#6
Flynn Wrote:I'm planning to get rid of the hot idle screw completely as it doesn't seem to do anything. I planned the LDA mod already, that will be my next mod until I set this up how I'm happy with. I need to find a new anti stall screw, perhaps I will just use the hot idle screw haha! Thanks for explaining about the LDA screw. Does it literally effect fuelling off boost then? With it wound right out could that make it too lean off boost and prone to stalling? Thanks.

No mate the lda has no effect on idle at all so mod away!

Check out Dan!'s guide on here about lda modding.....<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=31&t=144</a><!-- l -->
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#7
I found out why there is no haze of coal on boost, because the boost was going up as the fuelling was turned up. I remember Ruan saying something back in the .net days about the wastegate on the K14 not working beyond 19psi? That must have been what has happened here. I thought I had it restricted to 19psi by the wastegate but it was the fuelling that was keeping it at 19, when I turned the fuelling up more (today) it was hitting 24psi! That explains why I failed to get obtain a higher fuel to air ratio. Not where I want to be! Looks like I will have to get back underneath and get oil from the sump on my face again! I want to get the most out of a setup on a moderate boost level and gov mod, that will do me until I setup a front mount. LondonDan86 I chucked away that plastic washer by the way and rotated the LDA pin, at least I think, it was hard to tell which side was more severe. I hope the gov mod is that easy!
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#8
Flynn Wrote:I found out why there is no haze of coal on boost, because the boost was going up as the fuelling was turned up. I remember Ruan saying something back in the .net days about the wastegate on the K14 not working beyond 19psi? That must have been what has happened here. I thought I had it restricted to 19psi by the wastegate but it was the fuelling that was keeping it at 19, when I turned the fuelling up more (today) it was hitting 24psi! That explains why I failed to get obtain a higher fuel to air ratio. Not where I want to be! Looks like I will have to get back underneath and get oil from the sump on my face again! I want to get the most out of a setup on a moderate boost level and gov mod, that will do me until I setup a front mount. LondonDan86 I chucked away that plastic washer by the way and rotated the LDA pin, at least I think, it was hard to tell which side was more severe. I hope the gov mod is that easy!
the gov mod is just fiddly i broke a cradle putting it back together and i shimmed it 5mm and now it pulls very well just be gently and dont be rough with the gov mod i made that mastake Sad
[Image: mintsig.jpg]
STAGE2 XUD DEAD ATM ENGINE REBUILD
GARRET T2-BOSCH PUMP-GROUNDED LDA PIN-GOV MOD-FMIC-STRAIT THRU STAINLESS EXHAUST SYSTEM
COMING SOON TD04 Big Grin
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#9
Thanks do you reckon I should get a spare cradle just incase and then take it back if I don't need it? Where did you get your spare and how much did it cost?
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#10
Flynn Wrote:Thanks do you reckon I should get a spare cradle just incase and then take it back if I don't need it? Where did you get your spare and how much did it cost?


Dont bother getting a spare until you brake it (which hopefully you wont), just use the experience of Stewart and others who have done it before.


As I have said many many times BE GENTILE AND DON'T FORCE ANYTHING!!!!!!!
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#11
Dum-Dum Wrote:- Diesels should run ever so slightly rich to make peak power so a very very light hazing of smoke on full blow is ideal

I agree with you on lots of things.

This isn't one of those things.

If you're hazing at full power, your EGTs are going to be absolutely insane - my car completely clean with the vanes wide open is hitting close to 900*c - I've seen 1000*c before, that's what killed my last VNT, I melted the vanes and turbine wheel.

On tiny little turbos like K14s, any hazing on boost and you're going to absolutely annihilate the turbine wheel, bearings and cook the oil. It may produce good power, but it's going to destroy the poor turbo.

HDis don't really get this issue, if they're hazing it's usually from too much fuel, rather than too much duration with regards to smaller turbochargers (Past about 180HP, yeah, you will get nuts EGT problems from too smaller injectors), therefore the EGTs won't be nuts, because IDIs have long injection lengths due to the heat able to be held in the PCC, they end up with blistering EGTs VERY quickly. That typical grey haze is from it still partially burning when the exhaust valve opens - that is the type that cracks heads, burns valves and destroys turbos.
(16-05-2016, 10:45 AM)Toms306 Wrote: Oh I don't care about the stripped threads lol, that's easily solved by hammering the bolt in. Wink
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#12
Hi Ruan, thank you for your wisdom. I made a mistake, it's not a k14, it's the K03. I know it's the bigger sister because I don't get much psi until about 4k RPM which is when the fuel starts to drop off. While we are on the subject, is the governor cradle from a transit pump the same as a dt?
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#13
K03s are even smaller than the K14...

And no, gov cradle is different.
(16-05-2016, 10:45 AM)Toms306 Wrote: Oh I don't care about the stripped threads lol, that's easily solved by hammering the bolt in. Wink
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#14
Ruan, no, sorry, I must be getting confused here. It is the K14 in that case, the bigger of the two but still overall tiny. Thank you for your help I should really shake your hand one day, your wisdom knows no bounds! Thanks a lot Ruan you are a fountain of knowledge.
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#15
Ruan yes I was talking generally. XUDs arent my specialty.

correct me if im wrong here but you still dont have a FMIC and I suspect your running a little more boost than Mr Flynn is aiming for which is what causes your massive EGTs

I get what your saying about the duration needed to haze on full power but lower boost = less oxygen = less duration and flow to achieve hazing.




Flynn the 2 bits you will most likely break if your doing a gov mod are the cradle and the top cap of the governor itself (the bit the circlip holds back) it has 4 tiny little legs and theyer f*cking easy to snap off.

Most small washers are 0.8mm thick, I used 4 of them when I did mine making 3.2mm and it revved all the way to 6k It would of gone more but i pussied out. These people shimming 9mm pumps and standard turbos 4+mm are wasting their time as the turbo is right out of its efficency range past 5k and the harder the gov is sprung the more likely something is to break as there is more pressure in the spring.
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#16
Flynn Wrote:Thanks do you reckon I should get a spare cradle just incase and then take it back if I don't need it? Where did you get your spare and how much did it cost?

just dont be rough with it when u putting it back together trust me thay not as tough as what you would think for what thay do u will crack or snap it easy i did mine but i have now done mine and i was very gently with it you wont need a spare cradle unless u going too go rough with it haha just take your time and go gently
stewart
[Image: mintsig.jpg]
STAGE2 XUD DEAD ATM ENGINE REBUILD
GARRET T2-BOSCH PUMP-GROUNDED LDA PIN-GOV MOD-FMIC-STRAIT THRU STAINLESS EXHAUST SYSTEM
COMING SOON TD04 Big Grin
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#17
Dum-Dum Wrote:Ruan yes I was talking generally. XUDs arent my specialty.

correct me if im wrong here but you still dont have a FMIC and I suspect your running a little more boost than Mr Flynn is aiming for which is what causes your massive EGTs

I get what your saying about the duration needed to haze on full power but lower boost = less oxygen = less duration and flow to achieve hazing.




Flynn the 2 bits you will most likely break if your doing a gov mod are the cradle and the top cap of the governor itself (the bit the circlip holds back) it has 4 tiny little legs and theyer fornicating easy to snap off.

Most small washers are 0.8mm thick, I used 4 of them when I did mine making 3.2mm and it revved all the way to 6k It would of gone more but i pussied out. These people shimming 9mm pumps and standard turbos 4+mm are wasting their time as the turbo is right out of its efficency range past 5k and the harder the gov is sprung the more likely something is to break as there is more pressure in the spring.

i have shimmed mine 5mm and it pulls very well but i have got a gt15 on atm am going too be doing a TD04 soon as i can get a good one but am going too put my t2 on soon untill i can get a TD04 i dont rag my car anyway she is well looked after so i shunt break nothing if i dont rag her Smile
[Image: mintsig.jpg]
STAGE2 XUD DEAD ATM ENGINE REBUILD
GARRET T2-BOSCH PUMP-GROUNDED LDA PIN-GOV MOD-FMIC-STRAIT THRU STAINLESS EXHAUST SYSTEM
COMING SOON TD04 Big Grin
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#18
oh and another thing dont lose you cold start spring like i have my car is a arse on a morning now too start and i cant get my idle right need a spring haha
[Image: mintsig.jpg]
STAGE2 XUD DEAD ATM ENGINE REBUILD
GARRET T2-BOSCH PUMP-GROUNDED LDA PIN-GOV MOD-FMIC-STRAIT THRU STAINLESS EXHAUST SYSTEM
COMING SOON TD04 Big Grin
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