Bosch Pump Chatter

[jammapic]

Hi guys,

I've been out of the "pump building game" a while now, as I've just been cracking on with my 9mm seeing where it takes me.

Anyway, with my new motor I'm fairly sure I'm going to need further pump mods to make the most of the larger capacity engine, bigger turbo etc etc.

So what are the done mods these days as I'm pretty out of the loop!

Are we still running 11mm heads and gov mods and making good power? Or have we moved into more severe internal modifications?

I've got a pump in bits at the moment infront of me, and I'm having a poke around inside seeing if there's any way I can give it more diesel when at full chat but keep the smoke low... I've taken the main rotating governor weights out and having a play with the "adjustability" of it through the external adjuster to see if there's any scope there.

Guess I need to get some other pumps (transit / Land Rover / Shogun etc etc and see what parts can be interchanged.)

Cheers guys - and looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

JP

[Jenkosowls]

think most just do the usual 11mm pump and all the usuals. iv seen a french guy pop up every so often talking about a 12mm pump. Think Dave was doing some sort of trickery on his pump internally but not sure what pump he is using. I heard of something about a few attaching some form electrical gadget inline with the boost compensator pipe but htis was from a unreliable source.

im in the same predicament im wanting to keep 9mm to keep cost down. But more so smoke as all the 11mm's iv have tweaked seem quite smokey till it gets a clean boost. thinking of possible 10mm but hard to come by easily il be keeping an eye on this thread to here any advice.

[jammapic]

I think it will be possible to make pretty good, reliable power on the 9mm pumps if we can work them right.

I've already made over 200hp on one, but that was with the idle very high, and it liked to run away on me etc... so need to look at trying to keep the idle down, AND being able to add more max fuel. I think there's some merit in having a look at governor springs and weights - so I will do that when I've got a few pumps to play with.

I think ultimately, it may be easier to go for an 11mm pump - but only time will tell...

JP

[Dan!]

I don't see why you/people in general should make the jump up to a smoky 11mm when there are pumps out there with a compatible 10mm heads....

Have you played around much with the dynamic advance system? ground the advance piston and elongated the the slot in the bottom of the pump body to get more advance?

[jammapic]

I'm running stock advance at the moment, as I'm on a stock bottom end... but on the new motor I'll be modding the advance.

I want to stick with the 9mm as long as possible... I know the 9mm can fuel what I want, it's just keeping the idle down and stopping it running away that's the difficult bit.

JP

[n0v0s]

I don't see why you/people in general should make the jump up to a smoky 11mm when there are pumps out there with a compatible 10mm heads....

Have you played around much with the dynamic advance system? ground the advance piston and elongated the the slot in the bottom of the pump body to get more advance?

Dan, at first i was thinking that grinding the slot would have the same effect as grinding the actual advance piston.. but then on thinking about it.. no. As grinding the piston would only work to a limited extent as the slot would them be the next limiting factor. I'm interested in doing this mod now.

For those that have not ventured deep into a ve, this is the slot:

   

Through there goes a pin, which is also attatched to the dynamic advance piston below. The piston moves depending on the internal pump/inlet pressure ratio .. basically moving with increased rpm. As it moves.. it pushes the attatched pin with it .. which then essentially twists the roller cage in the main pump body, causing fuel injection to advance. If you don't follow, but want to.. read up on it. Theres lot of literture available through simple google searching.

   

The arrowed part is the piston.


I have carcassed 3 VEs and am building up a new hybrid along with a 10mm pump. This discussion has potential to be awesome so lets keep it going! I have lots of pump pics/porn to go up for reference if needed

[zx_volcane]

Wouldn't mind some tips for keeping the smoke down when winding up the fuel ...

Dan's uber ground lda pin is helping, but could always do with less smoke. Either by tipping more in on boost (a bulit up then ground pin for more travel), or keeping the lda from kicking in till a higher boost threshold than is possible with stock spring setup.

10mm pumps don't look too difficult to come by

I've got a 11mm headed pump built up waiting to go on, but still fussing with dynamic advance atm.

And more importantly I've come to the conclusion that without knowing the IPP I haven't got a clue if its even in spec - so my next move is to sort out a gauge for measuring that before I think about fitting it.

This would be a whole lot easier if I had a test bench (or at least a way of measuring ipp and an egt gauge), as a lot of this feels like fiddling in the dark tbh.

*goes off to buy an egt gauge*

[Dan!]

With regards to off boost smoke/better LDA control, you need to look into making the follower pin/dowel move further across under WOT, as standard it only moves into the LDA pin about 5.8mm, at best! Thats if your pump isnt uber high mileage or you have ran it with a rough surfaced LDA pin - both of which will mean the follower pin has worn down and will be shorter than stock!

[Watto]

Some say these 10mm pumps are easy to come by, others say they are scarce, im still learning this diesel game, what vehicles are the 10mm pumps mainly attached to??

[jammapic]

Dan! have you done that? There are a couple of ways to do it, and mine's a bit crude as I've literally cut material away - it seems to work though.

JP

[Dan!]

No I havent James, obviously cant do it to my own car and Jakes doesnt really warrant it yet, so we havent bothered. I know Dave said something about just bending the lever which pushes against the pin, but apparently the levers are more brittle than you might think....

[jammapic]

Get another Peugeot please Dan! - :-)

[Anton]

Almost tempted to donate my 306 to Dan, haven't used it in a while and it's just in the garage in the way.

[kernow_joe]

get it out from hiding Anton, I miss that car!!

[Dan!]

Almost tempted to donate my 306 to Dan, haven't used it in a while and it's just in the garage in the way.

It would go to the most loving and caring home ever

[Anton]

I know its bad of me. But ATM im driving so much, the zx runs better on veg and is a more sensible daily. I cleaned it at the weekend and it made me feel guilty. It needs a better turbo, don't really like the t25 all that much.

Just always comes down to the same thing. I have NO time.

[Harky]

I've the same as J.P to get the max out of the LDA, cut material away carefully, think its made a right bit of difference. Having desperate problems not being able to get enough fuel in low down though! Very little smoke throughout the range but none low and completely dead. Also need to try to figure out why it doesn't really drive right. You have to come on the throttle very slowly or it just dies!

[londondan86]

I dont find the 11mm that smokey, its all about right foot control. I would like to give the 10mm a go mind.

Also want to have a go at modding the vane pump to give it more blades, that coupled with a 2 litre swirl pot and some bigger fuel lines sounds tastey! Rpms ftw!!

[CJ_Derv]

Dan! have you done that? There are a couple of ways to do it, and mine's a bit crude as I've literally cut material away - it seems to work though.

JP

Is this what you recommended i do? on my last visit

CJ

[jammapic]

Yep - deffo mate!

I have some spare pump bits in the garage if you want to do some mods one evening?

JP

Dan! have you done that? There are a couple of ways to do it, and mine's a bit crude as I've literally cut material away - it seems to work though.

JP

Is this what you recommended i do? on my last visit

CJ

[zx_volcane]

Yep - deffo mate!

I have some spare pump bits in the garage if you want to do some mods one evening?

JP

Dan! have you done that? There are a couple of ways to do it, and mine's a bit crude as I've literally cut material away - it seems to work though.

JP

Is this what you recommended i do? on my last visit

CJ

Pump party?


The lever that moves the pin, held in by a shaft - can this shaft be punched out to remove the lever and do some modding? I've tapped it a bit but doesn't want to move easily.

[jammapic]

Pump party! lol :-)

Isn't that lever held in by a couple of ball bearings?

I'm at work atm so can't look at one to see. It HAS to be possible to get it out - as it was built in the first place....

Yep - deffo mate!

I have some spare pump bits in the garage if you want to do some mods one evening?

JP

Is this what you recommended i do? on my last visit

CJ

Pump party?


The lever that moves the pin, held in by a shaft - can this shaft be punched out to remove the lever and do some modding? I've tapped it a bit but doesn't want to move easily.

[Harky]

Pump party! lol :-)

Isn't that lever held in by a couple of ball bearings?

I'm at work atm so can't look at one to see. It HAS to be possible to get it out - as it was built in the first place....

Yep - deffo mate!

I have some spare pump bits in the garage if you want to do some mods one evening?

JP

Pump party?


The lever that moves the pin, held in by a shaft - can this shaft be punched out to remove the lever and do some modding? I've tapped it a bit but doesn't want to move easily.

Tis held in indeed by ball bearings, i tried punching mine out, ended up with a dremel and a big gouge out of it. Had to just fill it with chemical metal afterwards!

[Joe]

With regards to off boost smoke/better LDA control, you need to look into making the follower pin/dowel move further across under WOT, as standard it only moves into the LDA pin about 5.8mm, at best! Thats if your pump isnt uber high mileage or you have ran it with a rough surfaced LDA pin - both of which will mean the follower pin has worn down and will be shorter than stock!

so if i machined a longer lda pin, would this work?

[strictly_perv]

With regards to off boost smoke/better LDA control, you need to look into making the follower pin/dowel move further across under WOT, as standard it only moves into the LDA pin about 5.8mm, at best! Thats if your pump isnt uber high mileage or you have ran it with a rough surfaced LDA pin - both of which will mean the follower pin has worn down and will be shorter than stock!

so if i machined a longer lda pin, would this work?

Which pin? Either way no it wouldn't work.

[Joe]

follower pin

[Ricky]

With regards to off boost smoke/better LDA control, you need to look into making the follower pin/dowel move further across under WOT, as standard it only moves into the LDA pin about 5.8mm, at best! Thats if your pump isnt uber high mileage or you have ran it with a rough surfaced LDA pin - both of which will mean the follower pin has worn down and will be shorter than stock!

so if i machined a longer lda pin, would this work?

He's referring to the small dowel that rides against the LDA pin.

[CJ_Derv]

Woooo Pump Party ) haha

I definitly need to start looking into this too, although ive penty yet to go on the bosch mod wise. bit of research combined with a pump party should have a good outcome

[zx_volcane]

Pump party! lol :-)

Isn't that lever held in by a couple of ball bearings?

I'm at work atm so can't look at one to see. It HAS to be possible to get it out - as it was built in the first place....

Pump party?


The lever that moves the pin, held in by a shaft - can this shaft be punched out to remove the lever and do some modding? I've tapped it a bit but doesn't want to move easily.

Tis held in indeed by ball bearings, i tried punching mine out, ended up with a dremel and a big gouge out of it. Had to just fill it with chemical metal afterwards!

Will be investing in a dremel asap, but must me an oem way of getting them out instead of digging them out.

/edit looks like the oem way is to drill them out :/

[darrenjlobb]

Heat / Cold .....