Drove 150+ miles with clogged fuel filter - now won't start

[mikes]

Hi all

I recently fitted a replacement engine into my old DTurbo which my friend now owns - it was all going well but he filled it with veg last week (has bosch fitted) and set off for Edinburgh. Unfortunately he forgot to take a spare fuel filter with him and it clogged up on the way - he then limped 150+ miles with it in that state. Amazingly he got to Edinburgh, got a new filter and stuck it on - it then started up and he moved it to a different space in the car park.
After this it wouldn't start again so I went up this weekend (armed with a trailer) bled the fuel system, cleaned the in tank strainer, checked the filter housing was ok, tested the solenoids, put a known good replacement bosch pump on but that all made very little difference. It does just about fire but only for about a second - the glow plugs are all brand new. I've got some spare injectors - is it worth putting them on?

Cheers

Mike

[JTaylor2005]

Im wondering if when he replaced the filter he disturbed all the dirt and it got into the clean side of the filter? Is that possible? Then all that dirt has gotten up into the injectors and clogged the nozzles?

[bashbarnard]

Had this before. In tank strainer! Had a dogey batch of veg. Clogged in 15 miles

[JTaylor2005]

He said he has cleaned the strainer and its still as bad :/

[Piggy]

Turning over fast enough? Fuel at injectors?

[mikes]

Yeah it's got a strong battery on it and was turning over well - when I took the injector lines off fuel was coming out of all 4. While it was turning over with the intercooler off there was quite a large amount of unburnt veg coming out of the inlet but I don't know if that's just because it's not firing properly. We also tried filling the filter housing with diesel but that made no difference either.

[Piggy]

Shouldn't be fuel coming up/out the inlet...

Sounds like timing issue

[mikes]

When I took the old pump off the timing was correct and when I put the replacement on I double checked it - so confused.

[Dave]

Things to check;

Timing - screw timing bolts all the way in!, don't just do a couple of turns into the soft ally, recheck once belt has been tensioned
Pump orientation - are the studs on the bracket the correct orientation, the pump should slant towards the block, I assume you wouldn;t move these but ill list it anyway
Glow plugs? - simple one but can get people, check with a battery lead straight to the rail relay could have popped
Correct injector line - I assume again you haven't changed these but will list anyway
Take out solenoid valve to rule out, but as you have clag I don't think its this.

I bet whats happened here is the original issue was something small like filter, then not re-bled but changing the pump etc has created another issue altogether, most likely timing of either the pump or cam. They can run really rough with incorrect cam/pump timing, but need a strong battery/glowies to actually start, then people assume the timing is correct because it has started.

[silverzx]

Had this before. In tank strainer! Had a dogey batch of veg. Clogged in 15 miles

Me and Fish have seen this first hand on my 205. It was bad. 

Might try pour 15L of petrol in and thin it right down.

[mikes]

Things to check;

Timing - screw timing bolts all the way in!, don't just do a couple of turns into the soft ally, recheck once belt has been tensioned
Pump orientation - are the studs on the bracket the correct orientation, the pump should slant towards the block, I assume you wouldn;t move these but ill list it anyway
Glow plugs? - simple one but can get people, check with a battery lead straight to the rail relay could have popped
Correct injector line - I assume again you haven't changed these but will list anyway
Take out solenoid valve to rule out, but as you have clag I don't think its this.

I bet whats happened here is the original issue was something small like filter, then not re-bled but changing the pump etc has created another issue altogether, most likely timing of either the pump or cam. They can run really rough with incorrect cam/pump timing, but need a strong battery/glowies to actually start, then people assume the timing is correct because it has started.

I spent ages initially bleeding the fuel system properly before fitting the replacement pump but I'll check the timing again tomorrow just in case - the studs on the bracket remained in the same position. The glow plug relay is definitely a possibility though because I'd assumed because all the plugs were new they were fine, didn't think of the relay.

[connorcarp72]

Did you mount the pump on the studs in the same place?
Did you pin the cam and crank along with the pump or just the pump?
Dose it run on eather at all?

[mikes]

Did you mount the pump on the studs in the same place?
Did you pin the cam and crank along with the pump or just the pump?
Dose it run on eather at all?

Yeah I mounted the replacement pump in pretty much the same position on the bracket first, then moved it about it but it made no difference. All the timing bolts were in, one on the cam, two on the pump and one in the flywheel. It did exactly the same on both pumps - sounds as if its about to start then doesn't fire properly, almost like its down on compression.

[connorcarp72]

Were have you put the ignition live to the stop solenoid?and have you checked you have ignition live to to it?
I usually wire it to the reverse light switch ignition live.
And again dose it run on eather (easy start ect).
If it don't run on easy start it will be mechanical fault and I would remove the cylinder head and check the valves and combustion chambers in the head..under fueling can be a killer on idi's or any engine for that matter.

All I can say to you is if your 100% happy with your work and its getting air,fuel,and a good set of heater plugs working that car WILL START weather it runs right or not and the timing is right it's got to be mechanical

[mikes]

It's the original wire which fed the solenoid on the lucas pump (I've ran a live straight from the battery to both solenoids on the bosch and tried starting it, made no difference). The breakdown guy who came out before me took the air filter off and sprayed loads of easy start into the intake which I think has done more harm than good. I've swapped a lot of these engines now and never had a problem like this so I think it must be mechanical.

[r3k1355]

Did it run on easy start?

[connorcarp72]

To much easy start can cause it to rev up past the limiter all you should do is give it a sniff not chuck loads down its neck,what breakdown company came out to you so people know not to use them?.I have seen bent valves from the engine locking up on to much eather before.

Olso pull the rocker cover off make sure cam hasn't
snapped

[mikes]

Did it run on easy start?

No don't think so - but I also don't think the breakdown guy knew how to bleed the fuel system properly, so he may have just sprayed gallons in not realising air in the fuel was probably the issue (even though my mate made it clear that could be the problem).

To much easy start can cause it to rev up past the limiter all you should do is give it a sniff not chuck loads down its neck,what breakdown company came out to you so people know not to use them?.I have seen bent valves from the engine locking up on to much eather before.

Olso pull the rocker cover off make sure cam hasn't
snapped

Not sure of the breakdown company name, will ask.

[r3k1355]

Sounds like it's still f*cked, or has been scrapped then?

[Danny Wideboy]

It should run on easy start with air in the lines anyway.
If it won't run on easy start you have proper issues.

[Dave]

Did you check that your banjo bolts are the correct way round. The outlet one has a tiny hole in to keep pump pressure,
if you mix them up and use the outline on the inlet side and vice versa the pump will not produce its own internal pressure, and will sit in full retard position, leaving it starved.

[mikes]

The banjo bolts were the correct way round on the first pump - fairly confident the replacement pump ones were correct as well but I'll check. He's bought a new car now (needed for work) so we're going to turn this one into a many boost project - I'm assuming the worst with the engine and can't decide whether to replace it with a 1.9 or 2.1.