Stage 2 on the Cheap?

[MY95]

Is this possible? Worked it all out and it looks to be about £600, could it be done for a bit less i.e. Under £500?
Anyone done it for under £500? Please share your setup if so

[Poodle]

Did mine for just under 300, it's the clutch that's the killer. If you go limited torque it could easily be done for a couple of hundred. Set up was megane intercooler and a couple of random boxes of pipes from leftovers and garage clear outs. Then second hand boost gauge for a tenner, plus jubilees, top and bottom pipes and boost feed pipe from the scrappy.

[silverzx]

You can do a tidy twin pass FMIC job for around £200~£250.

Then the map...

Then clutch if you want the "full torque".

[MY95]

Did mine for just under 300, it's the clutch that's the killer. If you go limited torque it could easily be done for a couple of hundred. Set up was megane intercooler and a couple of random boxes of pipes from leftovers and garage clear outs. Then second hand boost gauge for a tenner, plus jubilees, top and bottom pipes and boost feed pipe from the scrappy.

Yeah the clutch does kill the fun, id thought about limited torque but would it be that much faster than a stage 1? What figures are/were you running limited torque?

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You can do a tidy twin pass FMIC job for around £200~£250.

Then the map...

Then clutch if you want the "full torque".

Yeah, trying to do it as cheap as possible so single pass would be cheaper to do, plus I need to get the GTI6 brakes too

[silverzx]

Single pass setup and a map could be done for £200-£250.

Big difference from a stage 1 as well.

Brakes aren't essential but would be nice..

[MY95]

Single pass setup and a map could be done for £200-£250.

Big difference from a stage 1 as well.

Brakes aren't essential but would be nice..

I suppose so yeah, brakes for me would be essential haha, I just thought it wouldnt feel like a massive difference due to the same torque

[Poodle]

I'm not running stge 2 yet, that £300 includes a helix paddle clutch but no map btw lol.

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Oh and im currently running an estimated 240lbft on the standard clutch without issue, fyi.

[MY95]

I'm not running stge 2 yet, that £300 includes a helix paddle clutch but no map btw lol.

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Oh and im currently running an estimated 240lbft on the standard clutch without issue, fyi.

How is that possible for £300 with clutch and cooler? :O
Nice, mine was slipping a bit at stage 1 but hasnt slipped now for a while, although its the original clutch so I think 240lb ft would be just enough to end its days haha

[Poodle]

Bargain hunting and a bit of effort:

Intercooler: £15 used on ebay
Boxes of odd pipes: £5 and £10 off members on here = £15
Jubilees and gauge piping: £five finger discount from scrappy
Top and bottom pipes: £25 from scrappy
Boost gauge: £10 used on ebay
Slimline fan: £15 - new from ebay
Clutch: £200 used off a member on here

Total cost: ~£280

Might be a couple of quid on odd bits i've forgotten, but it'll only be a couple of quid...

[MY95]

Bargain hunting and a bit of effort:

Intercooler: £15 used on ebay
Boxes of odd pipes: £5 and £10 off members on here = £15
Jubilees and gauge piping: £five finger discount from scrappy
Top and bottom pipes: £25 from scrappy
Boost gauge: £10 used on ebay
Slimline fan: £15 - new from ebay
Clutch: £200 used off a member on here

Total cost: ~£280

Might be a couple of quid on odd bits i've forgotten, but it'll only be a couple of quid...

Thats a great price for a full stage 2! What intercooler was it? How is a stage 2/stage 2 limited torque compared to a stage 1?

[jammapic]

Stage 2 limited torque is waaaayyy quicker than a stage 1. The power just gets stronger the more you rev it.

Stage 2 with full fat torque is another kettle of fish...

I've done a number of stage 1+ maps which give 240lbft and 135hp, so we know stock clutches can hold that right enough...I'd probably map it at 240lbft and 155hp.

If it was full torque I'd go around 280lbft and 160hp... Tbh, a stock clutch can (just) hold around 280lbft if it's brand new and fresh, but they go off pretty quickly..

JP

[Poodle]

Megane intercooler. Don't know, haven't gone stage 2 yet lol.

[MY95]

Stage 2 limited torque is waaaayyy quicker than a stage 1. The power just gets stronger the more you rev it.

Stage 2 with full fat torque is another kettle of fish...

I've done a number of stage 1+ maps which give 240lbft and 135hp, so we know stock clutches can hold that right enough...I'd probably map it at 240lbft and 155hp.

If it was full torque I'd go around 280lbft and 160hp... Tbh, a stock clutch can (just) hold around 280lbft if it's brand new and fresh, but they go off pretty quickly..

JP

Thanks for the reply Jammapic, does a stage 2 limited torque map cause as many potential problems to the fuel system i.e. fuel pump and injectors as a full fat stage 2 map?

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Megane intercooler. Don't know, haven't gone stage 2 yet lol.

I just thought you might have driven a stage 2 before that was all

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Stage 2 limited torque is waaaayyy quicker than a stage 1. The power just gets stronger the more you rev it.

Stage 2 with full fat torque is another kettle of fish...

I've done a number of stage 1+ maps which give 240lbft and 135hp, so we know stock clutches can hold that right enough...I'd probably map it at 240lbft and 155hp.

If it was full torque I'd go around 280lbft and 160hp... Tbh, a stock clutch can (just) hold around 280lbft if it's brand new and fresh, but they go off pretty quickly..

JP

What is needed for a stage 1+?

Im guessing straight through exhuast?

[jammapic]

Stage 1+ just needs decat really. Have done it on totally stock cars and it's ok... Just a touch smokey as it comes on boost. Not bad though.

Limited torque stage 2 will be totally fine on a standard car, with just the intercooler and boost controller...

JP

[tuttyboy84]

Just how quick is a full torque stage 2

[MY95]

Stage 1+ just needs decat really. Have done it on totally stock cars and it's ok... Just a touch smokey as it comes on boost. Not bad though.

Limited torque stage 2 will be totally fine on a standard car, with just the intercooler and boost controller...

JP

Oh right thanks for the info, i though 130 bhp/230 lb ft was about the max for the turbo before an intercooler was needed

[jammapic]

I've found, on multiple dynos and multiple cars that you can do 135hp and 240lbft easy enough. You have to accept the puff of smoke as it comes up on boost, but that's about it.

I've actually pushed a car with no intercooler wayyyyy higher than that, but it was on my development car and I wouldn't ever do it for a customer. Way too much smoke.

[MY95]

I've found, on multiple dynos and multiple cars that you can do 135hp and 240lbft easy enough. You have to accept the puff of smoke as it comes up on boost, but that's about it.

I've actually pushed a car with no intercooler wayyyyy higher than that, but it was on my development car and I wouldn't ever do it for a customer. Way too much smoke.

Nice one, one last question whats the difference in mpg using full throttle between a full fat stage 2 and a limited torque stage 2?

[jammapic]

At cruise, no difference.

At full throttle, worse for full torque. More power requires more fuel. Laws of physics.

[MY95]

At cruise, no difference.

At full throttle, worse for full torque. More power requires more fuel. Laws of physics.

Is it a lot worse or only a bit worse? Even at stage 1 you can sometimes see the fuel gauge go down slightly when nailing it for 5 seconds+

Im looking to go down the limited torque route, still gets you the bhp the full torque map does but just not the torque, although you save the money from the clutch and also the longeivity of the engine a bit more

[jammapic]

But, realistically, it's not as quick....

[MY95]

But, realistically, it's not as quick....

It isnt but then again your saving a few hundred quid on the clutch, and youve still got the top end with a decent bottom end too, cant lose really when your trying to save a bit of money while going for stage 2

[mcglynn]

I've driven both stage 2 limited and stage 2 full blown.

The torque saves you on fuel money if your not driving it hard. I can nail my car and still get around 40mpg, which isnt bad all things considered. Realistically the torque will mean more fuel but you'll find you drive it less hard to 'get places' so you actually put the engine under less strain.

The limited torque map is almost like a petrol car in that its quite rev happy and you have to 'keep it up in the power band' to get places, i remember racing against friends and only seeing them off when i really let the car rev out. now I've left those same friends from the word go, torque makes all the difference.

[Poodle]

I have driven a stage 2, but it was a long time ago. Have driven a stage 3 too, but that's not really comparable. As such i don't think i've got enough information to provide a useful opinion.

How are the egts on those maps jammapic?

[jammapic]

On the ones where I've really pushed them with smoke, like when I ran 20psi, and 145hp on my test car with no intercooler...they do get a bit high so sustained full throttle starts to get hot. That said, I'd never do that for a customer.

But, on stage 1+ tunes, it's not bad. Just 100c more than a normal stage 1.

JP

[MY95]

I've driven both stage 2 limited and stage 2 full blown.

The torque saves you on fuel money if your not driving it hard. I can nail my car and still get around 40mpg, which isnt bad all things considered. Realistically the torque will mean more fuel but you'll find you drive it less hard to 'get places' so you actually put the engine under less strain.

The limited torque map is almost like a petrol car in that its quite rev happy and you have to 'keep it up in the power band' to get places, i remember racing against friends and only seeing them off when i really let the car rev out. now I've left those same friends from the word go, torque makes all the difference.

Thanks for sharing your experience!
What other cars were you on about when you said you were racing against friends?

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I have driven a stage 2, but it was a long time ago. Have driven a stage 3 too, but that's not really comparable. As such i don't think i've got enough information to provide a useful opinion.

How are the egts on those maps jammapic?

Oh right thanks

[mcglynn]

I've driven both stage 2 limited and stage 2 full blown.

The torque saves you on fuel money if your not driving it hard. I can nail my car and still get around 40mpg, which isnt bad all things considered. Realistically the torque will mean more fuel but you'll find you drive it less hard to 'get places' so you actually put the engine under less strain.

The limited torque map is almost like a petrol car in that its quite rev happy and you have to 'keep it up in the power band' to get places, i remember racing against friends and only seeing them off when i really let the car rev out. now I've left those same friends from the word go, torque makes all the difference.

Thanks for sharing your experience!
What other cars were you on about when you said you were racing against friends?

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it originally would just about beat the 2.0 tdi 140 hp range of volkswagens, now it will happily sit alongside the pd 140's & pd 130's with a map to ~ 180bhp.

eats the standard ones for tea, will sit with an ep3 type r easily now too, although they would eventually pass if you had a road long enough due to their increased top speed. Our cars will realistically max out around 125-130mph, although the speedo may read more than this.

[MY95]

I've driven both stage 2 limited and stage 2 full blown.

The torque saves you on fuel money if your not driving it hard. I can nail my car and still get around 40mpg, which isnt bad all things considered. Realistically the torque will mean more fuel but you'll find you drive it less hard to 'get places' so you actually put the engine under less strain.

The limited torque map is almost like a petrol car in that its quite rev happy and you have to 'keep it up in the power band' to get places, i remember racing against friends and only seeing them off when i really let the car rev out. now I've left those same friends from the word go, torque makes all the difference.

Thanks for sharing your experience!
What other cars were you on about when you said you were racing against friends?

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it originally would just about beat the 2.0 tdi 140 hp range of volkswagens, now it will happily sit alongside the pd 140's & pd 130's with a map to ~ 180bhp.

eats the standard ones for tea, will sit with an ep3 type r easily now too, although they would eventually pass if you had a road long enough due to their increased top speed. Our cars will realistically max out around 125-130mph, although the speedo may read more than this.

Ah, I would have thought even a 125 bhp stage 1 would keep up with a 140 vw due to power/torque to weight?

Yeah the gearing isnt the best for a top speed run with a hdi, 125 ive heard is the max at about 5k with quite a bit of smoke coming out of the back

[mcglynn]

hmm I suppose mine was quite limited in the torque aspect due to a roasted clutch at the time.

was estimated around 180-190 lb.

with the stage two full torque it happily sits on the tail of a 180 bhp leon, it sits with pd 130 golfs that are mapped, also basically sat with a mapped 530d untill ~ 100. Then the gearing got the better of me, the stage 2 ones are under estimated, they go well when done right tbf