Throttle Bodies. FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP

[Ed Doe]

[cwspellowe]

9200rpm :twisted:

[darrenjlobb]

Meh?

Sounds poo imo, just as hes getting near the limiter im still waiting for a flurry of boost / chronic wheelspin / noise....

Boost is the way forwards, it always is....

[Ruan]

How would it feel, continually having negative manifold pressure.

Oh wait...

The thing that irritates me most about NA motors, you can't tickle it so it will bring the power in earlier, or drop the clutch to spin the turbo, no matter what you do, you've either got to drop 3 cogs, or just wait for the revs to build...

[C.A.R.]

How would it feel, continually having negative manifold pressure.

Oh wait...

The thing that irritates me most about NA motors, you can't tickle it so it will bring the power in earlier, or drop the clutch to spin the turbo, no matter what you do, you've either got to drop 3 cogs, or just wait for the revs to build...

You need to drive a quick NA car to appreciate it then buddy, as they are a lot of fun when you have them 'on the boil' and keep them in the right rev-band through some corners.

[darrenjlobb]

There just hard work for small benifits imo... I think once your used to driving boosted cars, its just a compromise going back to NA, constantly wanting more, and you just don't get it / cant have it.

Like dont get me wrong, 10krpm K20's are frigging epic win...and friggin quick....but then when you strap a turbo to them, there 5 times MORE epic win, and CHRONICALLY quick... Point made tbh.

[Ruan]

How would it feel, continually having negative manifold pressure.

Oh wait...

The thing that irritates me most about NA motors, you can't tickle it so it will bring the power in earlier, or drop the clutch to spin the turbo, no matter what you do, you've either got to drop 3 cogs, or just wait for the revs to build...

You need to drive a quick NA car to appreciate it then buddy, as they are a lot of fun when you have them 'on the boil' and keep them in the right rev-band through some corners.

I've driven a few "quick" NAs, driven 220hp 106 GTi on bodies and a 200hp B18C Honda CRX, oh sure it's quick and a lot of fun, but only when you're absolutely wringing it's f*cking neck, on track I completely see why they're a good thing, because you only ever wring it's neck, but for fast road, I really think turbo power is better... you've got the horsies there up the top end, but you've got the torque coming in earlier if you want it there...

When you drive a quick turbo car, you've got the base power there when the turbo isn't spinning quick, which is often a fair bit, more than enough to quickly nip off a roundabout... With an NA, you've got to be in the right gear, or drop 3 cogs, and nail it... I completely get the attraction of just nailing the f*ck out of a good NA motor, but it doesn't beat coming on boost and having just as much but earlier, and lasting longer up high...

And the sad thing is, the more you tune an NA, the more it kills the bottom end... The only way to have an "OK" bottom end and a serious top end is VVT, variable length intakes etc... The lumpier the cam, the more you just end up blowing half the mixture out the exhaust before it comes on cam with overlap...

[C.A.R.]

I see what you're saying buddy and I don't disagree, I think that turbocharging is definitely / infinitely better for the road and every-day situations. However, when I had the MX5 (don't laugh) the B-roads were far more enjoyable because whilst you didn't have much power (peak 130hp) it was spread quite wide, so you could keep it cooking for a while and it was very rewarding to drive like that, I think a turbo would have ruined it.

Another fine point to make would be if the gearbox was up to it. Changing gear in an MX5 is like cocking a bolt-action rifle and I urge anyone who likes their cars just to try it to feel what a good gearbox feels like! The Silly Celica as I now call it had 190hp (apparently, most return around 180 at the fly) together with its' fancy variable-valve timing lift cam. This however, meant a narrow powerband from between 6200 and 8500 rpm, but it was mated to a frankly limp-wristed w*nkbox from a Toyota Avensis / Corrolla. It just ruined the whole experience!

EDIT: swear filter got me at w*nk

[Ruan]

Oh absolutely, funnily enough I had a go in an MX5 last night, also having had a go in an S2000 the gearbox action is simply fecking amazing, but that's just something you'll never get in an FWD transverse car... You simply cannot beat the stick going in the top of the box for feel...

Do not get me wrong I actually have quite a lot of time for MX5s, they have pretty damned good engines really, very reliable, nice power, good noise, simple... I was finding myself changing gear for the hell of it... It's just a shame they look so gay!

However, the sensation of an engine ripping up onto boost, is like no other... The fact that people slate diesels for having a "narrow" power band is pointless... That's just a feeling thing - if you limit the torque spike and just keep it constant, people would say that it feels more like a petrol and it would feel like it produces power to the redline... But because diesels CAN produce that massive lump of torque, people let them do it and therefore it feels like the engine really SHOVES then just dies away. Pull off the torque midrange you can get 170hp at 4700rpm out of on XUD9 without the massive shove midrange, but it'll only make 220lb.ft or so, give it that shove back it'll probably make 180hp, but 320lb.ft at 2800rpm or so, but dying away until the redline... One engine will feel like you have to work it for it's power, but the other will feel like it "dies" - that's just the sensation of the massive torque dropping away - but they're producing nigh on the same power.

[procta]

throttle bodies are mad! some of the metro lads (mainly to the scots) have throttled bodied their metro track cars, they are as vicious as hell! i think one was hitting about 214bhp and thats bloody good for the k series engine. the noise is mad!!