vnt control

[Chris_90]

So I've been searching either I'm blind or the information isn't there, only thing I can find is the vag boys useing metal rods to control it.

So I don't think I will ever be able to get my head round the electrical side of it. So how do you control them mechanicaly?

Thanks in advance

[Tom]

Boost can. As the boost pressure rises it opens the vanes up more so they stop building boost as fast. I think lol

[Chris_90]

Boost can. As the boost pressure rises it opens the vanes up more so they stop building boost as fast. I think lol

Yer I've heard the word boost can thrown around alot but what is a boost can? How do you plumb it up? Could do with pictures really lol

[Tom]

Boost can is just a wastegate actuator i assume. A spring a rod and a diaphram. You'd use an MBC and plumb is in like a wastegate just it would be attached to the vanes not a wastegate.

[Ruan]

Do some research on why this is a bad idea - I've done a million and one posts about why it's a bad idea - it's FINE if you know what you're doing, but unless you understand the concepts of compressor surge, what exhaust manifold pressure does to an engine, why it's bad and why cruising situations are bad for a VNT turbo with no proper control - I wouldn't bother... It's likely to cause you more hassle than it's worth - many other good options out there if you pick the right turbo.

This is coming from the bloke who melted the vanes inside a turbo due to not really understanding what was going on - yet still recommends them... They're awesome - nothing will quite produce the same response when set up well, but get it wrong and it spells disaster for the turbo and engine usually. People assume they're as easy to get working as a wastegater - WRONG - I guarantee you'll spend the first 3000 miles screwing round with the turbo, trying to make it work right, wondering why when the boost goes up, the car performs like a sack of shit, barely moves and smokes like a twat and the exhaust manifold is doing a great impression of the surface of the sun - yet the boost gauge is reading 25psi - trying to make the actuator sit properly so it moves enough blah-de-blah... If you've got the patience - awesome, go for it, but if you just want a car to drive and aren't interested in doing a bit of your own development, don't bother.

[Chris_90]

Tbh it does look like a lot of messing around, but I'm willing to learn on the subject, but as I said I've searched and carnt find anything or I'm looking in the wrong place/typing the wrong things in.

I was looking at a gt2252s but not sure if that would be to laggy on a xud?

[mr_fish]

Do some research on why this is a bad idea - I've done a million and one posts about why it's a bad idea - it's FINE if you know what you're doing, but unless you understand the concepts of compressor surge, what exhaust manifold pressure does to an engine, why it's bad and why cruising situations are bad for a VNT turbo with no proper control - I wouldn't bother... It's likely to cause you more hassle than it's worth - many other good options out there if you pick the right turbo.

This is coming from the bloke who melted the vanes inside a turbo due to not really understanding what was going on - yet still recommends them... They're awesome - nothing will quite produce the same response when set up well, but get it wrong and it spells disaster for the turbo and engine usually. People assume they're as easy to get working as a wastegater - WRONG - I guarantee you'll spend the first 3000 miles screwing round with the turbo, trying to make it work right, wondering why when the boost goes up, the car performs like a sack of shit, barely moves and smokes like a twat and the exhaust manifold is doing a great impression of the surface of the sun - yet the boost gauge is reading 25psi - trying to make the actuator sit properly so it moves enough blah-de-blah... If you've got the patience - awesome, go for it, but if you just want a car to drive and aren't interested in doing a bit of your own development, don't bother.

QFTMFT

This included the engine being removed 3 times as I wasn't happy. Though I've done over 3k miles now fairly happily. Just got to watch the EMP

[Piggy]

Adruino control is what you would really need for a vnt.
But ZXvolcane will tell you how hard that is to setup.

Keep telling you chris that a GT2056s will see full spool by 1900/2000rpm if setup right and will see you to 200bhp and 300ft lbs of torque...

Which is enough in a 205!!

[Chris_90]

Adruino control is what you would really need for a vnt.
But ZXvolcane will tell you how hard that is to setup.

Keep telling you chris that a GT2056s will see full spool by 1900/2000rpm if setup right and will see you to 200bhp and 300ft lbs of torque...

Which is enough in a 205!!

When tuneing cars the word enough should never come in to it :Lol: yes I no what you have said but it's the prices of them that put me off all though I have found a few more that might be able to get cheap but just looking at other options as not in a rush for turbo, getting up and running is first thing then can look at an upgrade

[Tom]

Havent seen a second hand 2056 for an ok price for weeks :/

[Chris_90]

Havent seen a second hand 2056 for an ok price for weeks :/

Depends what you call ok price got a few on my watch list that are £150 or under we'll there the gt20 sort some 52/some 56

[Poodle]

Lrn2ebay.

Basically, find out what the turbo looks like and exactly what it came on, then go through the badly advertised listings for "landrover turbo" or whatever other terms you can think of. I haven't paid over £50 for a turbo yet and i've got some good'uns.

[Dave]

Do some research on why this is a bad idea - I've done a million and one posts about why it's a bad idea - it's FINE if you know what you're doing, but unless you understand the concepts of compressor surge, what exhaust manifold pressure does to an engine, why it's bad and why cruising situations are bad for a VNT turbo with no proper control - I wouldn't bother... It's likely to cause you more hassle than it's worth - many other good options out there if you pick the right turbo.

This is coming from the bloke who melted the vanes inside a turbo due to not really understanding what was going on - yet still recommends them... They're awesome - nothing will quite produce the same response when set up well, but get it wrong and it spells disaster for the turbo and engine usually. People assume they're as easy to get working as a wastegater - WRONG - I guarantee you'll spend the first 3000 miles screwing round with the turbo, trying to make it work right, wondering why when the boost goes up, the car performs like a sack of shit, barely moves and smokes like a twat and the exhaust manifold is doing a great impression of the surface of the sun - yet the boost gauge is reading 25psi - trying to make the actuator sit properly so it moves enough blah-de-blah... If you've got the patience - awesome, go for it, but if you just want a car to drive and aren't interested in doing a bit of your own development, don't bother.

I'll point out my head and turbo both got f*cked due to poor vnt control. The vanes didn't open right, causing huuuge EMP which lifted my head, this also melted my turbo, easy to get wrong now it all needs to come apart.

[Ruan]

Lrn2ebay.

Basically, find out what the turbo looks like and exactly what it came on, then go through the badly advertised listings for "landrover turbo" or whatever other terms you can think of. I haven't paid over £50 for a turbo yet and i've got some good'uns.

QFTMFT

I got a GTB2056VLK on sub 10k for sub £100...

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/pr...rsion.html

Go there for a reference of how much just a 2056VK costs new...

[Chris_90]

Lrn2ebay.

Basically, find out what the turbo looks like and exactly what it came on, then go through the badly advertised listings for "landrover turbo" or whatever other terms you can think of. I haven't paid over £50 for a turbo yet and i've got some good'uns.

But the landrover hotside looks like it will be a right pain to sort for an xud, got a few at my local scrappy I can get of the landrover but there part if the exhaust manifold not bolt off, and that's what I've been doing still struggleing all tho found a few more that I didn't see before

[Tom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVWo2q4Ohuk

Just to add to this...


This is why i want a vnt. Even if its a bitch to drive and set up and all that wank. I want that noise.

[Piggy]

Just to add to that...

I get that with my GT2056s.

And its not always a good thing...do that all day and the turbo wont last. Thats unhappy air basically...something isnt flowing well enough or the turbo isnt spooling early enough

[zx_volcane]

vnt ftmfw

/thread*



*(and basically what everyone else has said)

[Chris_90]

vnt ftmfw

/thread*



*(and basically what everyone else has said)

You gonna set it all up for me?

Think tho after this thread has put me off it lol, just made an offer on a gt20 on eBay

[rryan]

i got my GT20 for £50 deliveried off ebay, after it had been for sale and not sold for weeks at £150.

[Dum-Dum]

If you want to understand how to add a boost can look at my project thread as theres lots of pics of me converting my gt2359vk to a boost can and even a video.

[Piggy]

If you want to understand how to add a boost can look at my project thread as theres lots of pics of me converting my gt2359vk to a boost can and even a video.

With all due respect, its not that hard to do what you have done so far...

but I wonder how much agro you may be in when you get it running and need to start fiddling with it a lot to get it work/not kill your engine

[padge]

Bleed valve and a boost actuator.

[mikey b]

In my mind I think you need to just bite the bullet a and go for it just mount in a way that you can easy adjust things

[zx_volcane]

In my mind I think you need to just bite the bullet a and go for it just mount in a way that you can easy adjust things

Thats the spirit

Also pretty essential to have an EMP and EGT gauges so you can judge when things are going tits up.

Ignorance is *not* bliss with the vnt.

[Ruan]

If you want to understand how to add a boost can look at my project thread as theres lots of pics of me converting my gt2359vk to a boost can and even a video.

Agree with Piggy on this one... Trust me, when you get it on the car, you'll realise what we've all been on about... It's REALLY not as easy as you think... It seems so simple when you think about it, but when you realise the other factors that go into it, you realise they're a pretty fine balancing act.

And yes - people need to man up, do it, but I just KNOW that most of this forum will give up after 30 seconds of trying. I've seen it too many times.

Mark and I spent probably a good day or so just trying to get his to perform OK-ish - that's after I'd had the turbo on mine off 12 times and set up quite a few others, if you think you can persevere, go for it, but as said, I know most will just give up.

[darrenjlobb]

Meh,

I strapped a VNT on my mtdi with a boost can, A VNT on the audi v6 with a boost can, and did the same with Marks 206 with a boost can.

Works a treat, drives like fook, and havent had any problems, infact havent even had a surge problem, only seems to be an issue for gt20 framed vnt's, dont have any trouble with a 2256v gen2 on a 2.0 or a gen3 2260vk on the audi, can just bog it from idle and it will spool up / light up no trouble without surge.

Only thing you ned to get right is the stop screw and the tensioner on the accuator in its rest position, you dont want much or else it will surge like fook before it makes enough boost to move it, but get that right, set the boot controller anywhere from 12 to 25psi, and it will go like a train!

[Ruan]

and did the same with Marks 206 with a boost can.

Meh - I'll still remember them all a total bitch to do. You had issues with yours on your MTDi a few times, the V6 Vagbus we spent probably half a day pissing about with when it just wouldn't work for shit...

That took Mark and I a day to get performing even remotely well... If the turbo is on view it's a damned sight easier I'll admit...

You remember the issues I had with mine to begin with...

But then you remember the noise when the vanes open up, you hear the compressor spin up, all works right and the torque just comes thundering in and you light the front axle up.

[darrenjlobb]

Yeah but everytime we thought we had turbo issues on the vagbus it turned out to be something else, theres never been a problem at all with the turbo itself, still have the identical setup on it now as when i first did it, works flawlessly.
And my car was the pre tension on the accuator, hence why i mentioned it, as this is the one thing that can totally screw it up / drive you made trying to figure out what is wrong with it...

Tbh even if you just screw the stop screw in to avoid any possiblity of surge, it will still be better than a WG turbo...you just have to see the vanes "as a wastegate" on a smaller turbine, as they effectivly do the same thing, "bypass" flow on the turbine, even tho flow still goes via it, its just a win win, as you can take advantage down low rather than just "wasting" flow up high via the wg. Personally for what they cost (if you look around you can pick up 2256's cheap as chips...) for what most people want from there DT, its the way forwards, loads of power, loads of spool, and no need to rev the crapsticks out of the motor / explode it heh. It also suits the VE pump rediculaslessly well...