Info on a cam.

[Toms306]

My shitty diesel has more power than that GTi!

What the hell was wrong with it!? :o

[Foxy-jim]

Loads of good discussions on this! Would be keen to see what could be done with the 1.8!

Really way some cams and a map for mine now!

[cully]

whistles !

[Foxy-jim]

That would be awesome!

[Dum-Dum]

^^ LOL, that gti was WAYYYY down on power though!!! Just to piss on your parade

ALL GTi6s are way down on power.

Ive never seen a standard GTi6 get close to 167bhp on the dyno.

Peugeot over quoted the GTis power figure and under quoted the XSi to make the difference look bigger than it was with "over 30bhp more" to make sure they sold more GTi6s

[Foxy-jim]

Damn peugeots! Hey best not underestimate mine! I can't afford to lose anymore!

[Toms306]

Damn peugeots! Hey best not underestimate mine! I can't afford to lose anymore!

Can they underestimate the 1.4s power? :think:

[Ed Doe]

ALL GTi6s are way down on power.
Ive never seen a standard GTi6 get close to 167bhp on the dyno.
Peugeot over quoted the GTis power figure and under quoted the XSi to make the difference look bigger than it was with "over 30bhp more" to make sure they sold more GTi6s

I'm assuming you're not getting geuninely annoyed at me for my poke? It was a joke.

and on the note of gti6's being 'down on power' Just about every dyno readout I've ever read has them between 165-175 if well maintained. I realise they're knocking on a bit for age an mileage, but I don't believe they were over-quoted when put on sale... Or not by a noticeable amount anyway...

[Foxy-jim]

Harsh! They aren't that bad!

[Dum-Dum]

I'm assuming you're not getting geuninely annoyed at me for my poke? It was a joke.

and on the note of gti6's being 'down on power' Just about every dyno readout I've ever read has them between 165-175 if well maintained. I realise they're knocking on a bit for age an mileage, but I don't believe they were over-quoted when put on sale... Or not by a noticeable amount anyway...

No not anoyed, just up for a discussion as id genuinely like to see some of these "175bhp as standard" GTi6s or the dyno it was tested on as mine would be at least 150bhp by that measure.

Most of the GTi6s ive seen done are somewhere between 148bhp and 155bhp.

Also you say not by a noticeable amount, most of the GTi6 drivers I know who have had a low dyno have thought they were making about the right power before the dyno was done, so they didnt notice they were down ~25bhp, so 25bhp could be construed as not being a noticeable amount.


Out of interest what is yours making seen as you look after it well.

[Ed Doe]

No not anoyed, just up for a discussion as id genuinely like to see some of these "175bhp as standard" GTi6s or the dyno it was tested on as mine would be at least 150bhp by that measure.

Most of the GTi6s ive seen done are somewhere between 148bhp and 155bhp.

Also you say not by a noticeable amount, most of the GTi6 drivers I know who have had a low dyno have thought they were making about the right power before the dyno was done, so they didnt notice they were down ~25bhp, so 25bhp could be construed as not being a noticeable amount.


Out of interest what is yours making seen as you look after it well.

ok cool!

175bhp was a round-up, I've seen 172-173hp.
Having said that have you seen CJM_Harris' off the '6 forum? Link below:
http://www.306gti6.com/forum/showthread.php?id=131516

post 7; only had a hg skim and an exhust. and that's a good dyno too iirc....
That's a bloody lovely power curve too; flatline from 5750rpm to 7k....

I dunno what mine is making; as you said the old arse dyno is so deceiving. It pulls really well though; I'd be surprised if it was down on power over stock... and disappointed lol!! Specially as I can no longer say nevermind the torque figure was impressive

[Rippthrough]

I've seen plenty of gti6's make book power, that one looks like the cam timing is out going by the torque curve.

[lewisdmz]

Apart from ones with clear problems I don't think i've ever seen a gti6 make under 160?

Where are all these dynos dum?

[Ruan]

So much crap in here tbh...

There's only SO much ECUs can compensate... Most of the time ECUs are running in closed loop mode - that means they're not ready any external inputs to trim fuel, it's literally Calculated Engine Load vs RPM... - that gives you your fuel and ignition timing... At PART throttle and IDLE the lambda works, on full throttle it doesn't do anything... Don't assume the Lambda fixes everything, it's only for part and idle throttle...

Wanging on turbos onto 8v 1.4s/1.6s - everyone will slate you, but 5th injector and an external controller, you CAN make good gains... It's not going to be GTi6 beating power, but it'll sure as hell be fun... Blow one up? Oh dear, another one from your local scrappy for £50, 2 headgaskets or get someone to lathe the top of the pistons down a bit... Or worst case, get some aftermarket management... 200hp should be doable given a low enough CR and good fuelling throughout and not going nuts on the timing.

1.6 16Vs are (IMO...) f*cking good engines - remember that the TU came AFTER the XU - it was designed from the XU, a TU5JP4 with some lairy cams will produce damned good power also, IMO the TU5J4/JP4 is a seriously, seriously underestimated engine, especially for 306s... Light in comparison to a 2.0 XU and with a set of cams and bodies, you'll reach 180-190hp surprisingly easily...

[Rippthrough]

^ What he said.


I'm agreeing with Ruan, somethings gone seriously tits up in the universe tonight.

[Foxy-jim]

Thanks for the info Ruan! Maybe a 1.6 16v may be on the cards then? I don't know I just like the idea of keeping an 8v engine and just surprising a few people!

[Ruan]

^ What he said.


I'm agreeing with Ruan, somethings gone seriously tits up in the universe tonight.

Nah, you sure you're OK Ripp?

Sorry, I must have said the wrong thing... I can't have Ripp agree with me, abort!!

1.6 16vs are shit, k, just put in a GTi6 engine...

*phew*

[Rippthrough]

Well, just to get back on track, I disagree with lathing the pistons down or the double headgaskets - the 8v TU's only just have enough squish as it is so you'd ruin the charge distribution in the chamber

They're only 9.3:1 compression anyway so should be fine with 6-7psi. Mine's running 10.4:1 compression and still okay even without a lairy cam to drop the dynamic compression.

[Foxy-jim]

Could someon explain what different compressions mean? I'm guessing low compression is good for turbos, hog compression better for Na?

[Ruan]

Higher compression = better thermal efficiency, i.e. it'll extract more power from the fuel... But if you're turbocharging an engine, you're increasing cylinder temperatures due to increased pressure, higher temperatures = a recipe for knocking which is damaging.

Lowering the compression ratio will help reduce cylinder pressures and therefore temperatures, producing less power.... But obviously when you add turbocharging to that, the slightly lower CR is totally offset by the increase in air you can stick in due to turbocharging... Have a listen to high power, turbocharged engines, they sound VERY easy to spin over *wheeeee* rather than *Rahchachacha* from each piston lifting and coming under load - that's because they've got shit all compression!!

What Ripp is on about with the Squish is where there's an area that causes turbulence and forces the charge to the centre of the bore... If you reduce compression by skimming the pistons or putting a decomp plate in or 2 head gaskets, you reduce that squish area, so the mix will burn unevenly and end up with parts of the mix burning long after TDC, causing crap combustion.

That's as I understand squish area... Ripp please correct me on that one...

[Rippthrough]

Sort of, it also affects the heat buildup in the charge so less squish (generally - there are provisos), for the same compression means high peak charge temperatures too - hot spots that promote detonation, so you can keep the compression ratio up even with lots of boost if the head/piston design is good enough.

[Foxy-jim]

Wow sounds pretty in depth! May have to do some more reading on this!

Rip, hav you raised the compression and I so, how?

[Jonny b]

Wow sounds pretty in depth! May have to do some more reading on this!

Rip, hav you raised the compression and I so, how?

Skimming the head will raise compression!

[Foxy-jim]

Ye I've heard that. Are there any other ways?

[darrenjlobb]

Pft this is getting far to deep haha

The TU is pretty win tho, so responsive / lively in comparison to the XU gti motor, and imo sounds pretty epic to....and I guess for all the suspension queens, its a damn sight lighter, so surely all a good thing? Probs wouldnt acaully cost naff all more to get a 16v TU to 190hp than a GTI6 motor either...

[Foxy-jim]

Imagine a tu 8v at 190 haha.

I agree that they do sound awesome and a lot bigger then they actually are!

[Rippthrough]

The weight saving of the 8v alloy block + MA box + lighter ancillaries isn't to be sniffed at over an XU, that's for sure, half the reason mine upsets lightly tweaked dtubs.

[Rippthrough]

Yeah, I got most of it from skimming the head foxy-jim, plus a tidy-up skim across the top of the block.

You need to adjust the cam timing after taking that much off though!

[Foxy-jim]

Ok awesome! Well if I do get some cams in te summer I will get the head skimmed. May take a few days off work and spend doing it!

[Ruan]

The weight saving of the 8v alloy block + MA box + lighter ancillaries isn't to be sniffed at over an XU, that's for sure, half the reason mine upsets lightly tweaked dtubs.

Yeah, those MA boxes are really light when most of the internals leaves with the oil, or just empties itself onto the road...