Which Engine (kinda new car thread but not :P )

[Toms306]

I've driven a 115bhp Golf, it was awful, the Mondeo must be heavier than that! Depends how you drive though I guess.... I like making decent progress lol.

[procta]

[/quote]

Ok, deep breath

MOT and tax are up at the end of March (expensive tax due to year)

MOT fails -

Wheel bearing
Exhasut snapped just after cat
Rusty hole in NSR arch
OSR seatbelt won't retract
Airbag light (intermittent, despite 'fixing' seat wires)
Possible beam camber (scrubs with a load in, but cant tell how far the beams gone yet tbh)
Handbrake doesn't hold well - although I think its still above the 16% requirement - has new cables but I think one of the calipers is 'dodgy'.
Number plate light only works if you whack the tailgate - I think its the tailgate loom broken

Other issues/annoyances -

Turbo sounds like a police car
Clutch slipping a lot now, juddery when pullingaway and release bearing whines, and the bite point moves as the cable is knackered
Blower motor barely works due to a wiring fault
Most of the dash is broken/loose wiring/missing fixings - from a very poor heater matrix change I guess
Aux belt squeals (new belt and tensioner, possibly a bad pulley)
No cambelt history and on 121k
Hunts constantly at idle
Jumps throughout the rev range (possibly a sensor but I'd guess injector fault)
Tracking is about a mile out
Steering ram has no cover and as such is now scratched up, possibly cause no issues though
No rear exhaust heatshield - but thats irrelevant as theres no exhaust gas there now anyway lol
Oil leak from turbo retun line
Water 'disappears' but cant find a leak, unless the gaskets going but thats unlikely on a HDi afaik


So really you can see it's not worth anything but scrap. So I'll take my bits off it and sell any 'good' parts (that wont take long lol) but also saves me putting it back to standard if I just break it.

Wouldn't take less than £550 for it (standard) due to how much it owes me (lost more on this than a £2400 bum poker so far lol).
[/quote]

tom most of that can be fixed by having a day or so at the scrappers and ebay.
1st thing i would have done is the timing belt, water pump etc.
just do bits at a time. ie fix that seat belt and wiring fault for the number plate, those are easy fixes, maybe even price the rear drums from another 306 and revert it back. just till you get sorted with other things.
doesnt sound a bad car tbh tom, just needs some tlc

[Strikeforce]

Procta there is no chance he is keeping this now so i would just forget about it lol.

I prefer the mondeo myslef but i do like the facelift veccy the pre facelift front end looks like an arse

[Toms306]

Procta most things 'can' be fixed....but its not economically viable.

Post facelift vecs look crap imo lol, plus they lose a lot of things I want (traction control, auto wipers etc).


It seems there's still not a definitive answer then lol.

Mondeo seems more reliable, but vec seems more economical. Or looking at the cars themselves, mondeo doesn't look as good but vec is less comfortable and more boat like handling.

Hmm, why can't they just make an ideal car lol.

[Niall]

Tom get a Kia Ceed. Its a great car, does 60mpg and i am actually starting to believe you were right. Modern cars are much better!

[Toms306]

I still can't tell if you're taking the piss haha.

But I can't afford a new one and we know the older ones are crap lol....

[Eeyore]

tom fix the hdi! youve lost heart with it and you need to get it all fixed so its epic. What makes you think itll be better after shelling out over a grand for a new car that could have just as many problems?

My dad has the 2.2 TDCi 155 in his mondeo and its rapid and it gets fairly flighty at 125. However... the EGR on it must be playing up as it hunts like mad on idle. It went to several diesel specialists when it eventually stopped the car from working altogether and took weeks to fix. It still hunts on idle but doesnt stall!

Also... the clutch on it started to be a bit funky so he drove it home and then to the garage... with a loud grinding noise. They found that the clutch was f*cked and because of that it had shattered the casing of the gearbox. So he had to shell out for a new clutch and reconditioned gearbox which took weeks to order. He looked at new cars but couldnt find any 150 estates so paid thousands to get it fixed!

Ive driven it up the road and obviously been a passenger in it loads and its rapid... but it still has problems. The car feels bloody massive too! Also I think he only gets about 40mpg out of it as he was really impressed with the power of the hdi and that i was getting 50mpg out of it!

[Toms306]

Sam, It'll never be epic though, I've never liked it as you probably know lol.

I'm being GIVEN the money for something newer, so that's what I'm doing. I know you've never actually owned a newer car so probably don't understand....but eventually you will. . Although on the other hand, I know we have very different ideas with cars - you like modding things and adding what I'd see as 'chav' mods....whereas I much prefer standard, and what you'd call boring lol. the mods I do are subtle 'gti' mods (clones, splitter etc) as I dont like the disorganisation of having wires everywhere and bits of dash painted etc....I just prefer modern standard and 'tidy'.

Honestly, even after the problems with it, I'd still prefer the golf over the HDi which just feels pov spec, uncomfortable and archaic tbh.....and that's before all the issues with it. However golfs are poor value for what you actually get hence not wanting another of those either.

There's nothing to say I won't get probs with a newer car, Infact I almost certainly will, difference is, for the whole time I've owned the HDi its never been perfect, there's always something broken and that's one of the reasons I got rid of the 1.8 tbh. Plus you have to spend half the value of a 306 to fix a 306 these days. So anything you replace is just money wasted. Newer cars don't break as much (thats just a fact, over time and distance things deteriorate and wear out more) and for the majority of the time you've got a car that is reliable and trustworthy. Someone said about really enjoying a 306 twice a month on here the other day....and this is exactly right, theres very brief moments which you wo.t get with any other similar car where it holds the road well and is fun to drive - but I'd rather have something that isn't epic for 1 day a month and shit for the others, but that does the job averagely for the majority of the time instead.

[swampy]

I'm telling you now I don't hang about when I'm driving but no matter how I drove the Mondeo I couldn't get more than mid 40mpg

Now the alfa I drive everywhere like I stole it as it has the power to mess with yet still get on average 10mpg more than the Mondeo.

An alfa is like any other car, they all have there issues but none are more or less reliable than the next!!
You look hard enough you will find the good and bad for any car!!!

I workin the trade so have a far deeper look at things than most on here, not to mention the vast knowledge of the guys I work with to find out issues.

You have to remember that an alfa is predominantly a fiat !!!
And if you go for a diesel the engines are also used in vectras

[Eeyore]

So if you bought a ferrari for £200k and it cost £50k to repair that would be alright? At least its less than half the cost of the car! D: its bollox tom. 306 is one of the cheapest to repair and everyone knows it. Look at Jamma mayhew who has pretty much written off his gti6 3 times now and he is getting it rebuilt again!

Also way for pushing away your friends. I like subtle mods, ive had splitters on all of my cars and im just using some imagination and being different by spraying my dash, fitting my own sound system. Also all my 306s have had cyclones on them. yes i went through the wolfrace dragon stage but bare in mind I was 17 and wasnt in any car community what so ever so the only guidance i had was NFS:Underground 2!

Tom you always look for the good in cars in buying them and then you find all the faults and say they are awful. FYI I have actually driven new cars, I have had two brand new fiestas and yes they were fairly nice and rather nippy but i didnt like the massively powered steering and if they had ever broken im sure it would have been a small fortune to fix! Also bare in mind that we also have had the freelander 2 and mondeo 150 when they were only a few years old!

Good things in 306:
-Cheap to insure
-Cheap to fix and replace parts
-Parts are readily available
-You can do all the work yourself
-there isnt too much technocal gubbins on the engine compared to modern cars.
-50MPG is actually fairly impressive even by todays standards.
-Well established community with almost every answer under the sun!

Bad Things
- You need some time and money to spend fixing it!
- Its not the sporty monster that you will never afford to buy or run until you have a job!
- If you get something new... what are you going to do? Stop moaning and sit around all day thinking how brilliant it is?

love from sam

[lolsteve]

A mondeo 130 was keeping up with me in my stage 1 hdi on the straights whilst having a spirited drive on a private stretch of land. so they're not that heavy that it throws them out of the leauge. On the twistys though he had now hope it was like moving a boat around the corners. He got his cheap though, £1,500 for good milage but it's had water leaking problems (£200)and needed a replacement turbo pipe (£30)

[Stephen]

Mine handles surprisingly well tbf, got as good as a 306 but still

[Toms306]

I think we'll just have to disagree on this

-it'll cost me less to insure a standard mondeo or vectra than the mapped, lowered HDi.
-Parts are cheap comparatively, but labour is still the same
-Parts aren't readily available, as a lot have stopped being made by Pug and finding say panels or turbos in good condition now is near impossible as there's less and less 306s about now. It's much easier to source ford parts (dont know about vaux parts).
-I can't do all the work, for a start I can't weld, and I'll also soon be losing space to fix cars so they'll have to be garaged anway. And the worst thing about old car fixing is that it takes twice as long due to all the rusty seized parts!!
-There's not so many sensors...but the ones they used are old tech now, another reason for lacking mpg and performance, plus they're the worst parts....never had sensor issues on two vags, but the HDi is full of them.
-50mpg isn't impressive given the lack of power....if it had 150bhp standard then yeah id agree.
-Every car has a forum these days lol.


Jamma clearly.likes his 6, but that doesn't mean rebuilding it was economical - although in his case it probably was after the expensive lpg conversion.

And you took the mod part the wrong way, I was trying to show how our different ideas will affect out car choice, but obviously it didn't cone across like that.

[Eeyore]

Still look at the 2.2 150 it only gets around 40MPG. Which isnt impressive at all! Imo the older 2.0 HDi is doing very well getting 50MPG and chucking out 125 or 150!

[Toms306]

Hmm, over on the mondeo forum they say 45-55mpg for the 2.2. And the HDi has 90bhp as I said no mods. I could buy a tuning box for the vec to get 200bhp and still 50ish mpg, but that pointless for me as it raises insurance and the likelyhood of things breaking. If your Dads mondeo does only get 40mpg thats really poor - and you even said earlier its broken as it keeps hunting.


I think the answer here is - a mondeo with the 150CDTi engine lol....

[Niall]

Tom I know this argument is never going to go anywhere but I'm Still going to say my bit.

Newer cars ARE NOT more reliable. I know you have an issue where you need something you
Can have faith in and that's fair enough but how many HDis do you see on here that have had to go on the back of a recovery lorry? How many break down? Barely any because its a solid reliable engine. Fair enough people like Jonny are having issues but that's because of chronic boost. Obviously the more power you try and get out of a engine, the less reliable it can become.

Newer cars break down just as much. Problem is though we are moving away from the times of being able to fix your own car. Take dum dums coupe for example. It's got a dpf fault and needs that liquid topping up (I can't remember the name of it now). That's a dealer job as most of the process needs to be done on PP.
say for example the CD player packs in on the mondeo you buy (likely. There crap). You can't just go and buy a new one and fit it. You have to have the old one unpaired and new one paired before it will work which again, is done with dealer software.
I was comfortable owning my 6 because I knew that even if the head gasket went or the belt snapped, yes it would be an inconvenience but I could have it fixed in a weekend for not a lot of money. Other thing is, have you seen the price of a belt renewal on a mondeo? Some of the newer ones don't use chains. They use a oil bath belt. Your looking at the best part of 800 from a dealer to do the job.
Remember Tom. It's ok you being given the money to buy a newer car but considering how much money you don't have, what are you going to do when it breaks down or something goes wrong?
If my Kia broke down outside of warranty, I'd be looking at £80 a hour labour. That's considered cheap for dealer work. The garage my old man used to work at charged £125 a hour and that was back in 2007!

[Stephen]

I swapped the radio My 02 Mondeo to an aftermarket one with no issues!

I agree with most of what your saying though!

I'm hoping to get an hdi when I get back for something pretty reliable!

[Stephen]

Seems kind of relevant

[Toms306]

Tom I know this argument is never going to go anywhere but I'm Still going to say my bit.

Newer cars ARE NOT more reliable. I know you have an issue where you need something you
Can have faith in and that's fair enough but how many HDis do you see on here that have had to go on the back of a recovery lorry? How many break down? Barely any because its a solid reliable engine. Fair enough people like Jonny are having issues but that's because of chronic boost. Obviously the more power you try and get out of a engine, the less reliable it can become.

Newer cars break down just as much. Problem is though we are moving away from the times of being able to fix your own car. Take dum dums coupe for example. It's got a dpf fault and needs that liquid topping up (I can't remember the name of it now). That's a dealer job as most of the process needs to be done on PP.
say for example the CD player packs in on the mondeo you buy (likely. There crap). You can't just go and buy a new one and fit it. You have to have the old one unpaired and new one paired before it will work which again, is done with dealer software.
I was comfortable owning my 6 because I knew that even if the head gasket went or the belt snapped, yes it would be an inconvenience but I could have it fixed in a weekend for not a lot of money. Other thing is, have you seen the price of a belt renewal on a mondeo? Some of the newer ones don't use chains. They use a oil bath belt. Your looking at the best part of 800 from a dealer to do the job.
Remember Tom. It's ok you being given the money to buy a newer car but considering how much money you don't have, what are you going to do when it breaks down or something goes wrong?
If my Kia broke down outside of warranty, I'd be looking at £80 a hour labour. That's considered cheap for dealer work. The garage my old man used to work at charged £125 a hour and that was back in 2007!

The HDi engine is shite as it gets older - currently I've got a f*cked turbo (due to age/milage), a snapped cat pipe (again, rust takes time to form), a dodgy MAF (age related again), oil leak from turbo return (as the clip weakens over time), injector/TPS fault (either a dirty injector which happens over time, or a TPS which wears out over time) and a knackered clutch and cable (again, time related and abuse related). ALL of those things are age related! Why didnt they happend 5 years ago? Because the car was newer. Everything gets less reliable over time, not just cars, everything in the world deteriorates. And dont forget its not just the engine failing that could cause the car to be undriveable.

I've seen quite a few HDis broken tbh, just 'hanging on' with several faults that could cause a breakdown at any point. Granted you dont often see them on recovery trucks, but thats more due to the fact people dont really care about them and will drive them home if at all possile, risking further damage where owners of expensive cars would rather get it looked at (example, clutch cable snaps, we'd probs just crunch the gears home as the snchros are f*cked these days anyway, with a newer car youd be calling the recovery straight away!), either that or 306 owners are too tight to pay for AA lol.

And you're right, more power (mods) reduce reliability, as does thrashing a really slow car because its so slow........so buy one as standard thats quick enough to start with should theoretically last longer than cars that I've modded...

You're thinking of too newer mondeo, thhe shape Bailes has, the older ones use the better system of cam chain, and you can swap stereos (I done it on my Dads last month lol).

Not being to afford to afford to fix a newer car is the reason I kept putting it off.......but my Nan said that she'd rather see me get a new car and if it did go wrong she'd pay. Whilst I dont like the idea of it, I'd be stupid to turn it down.

---

I'm hoping to get an hdi when I get back for something pretty reliable!

I've one here you can buy....the pinacle of reliability....

Honestly, you might aswell stick with an XUD.

[Stephen]

If I buy the newest one with the lowest miles I could find would you still answer the same?

[Toms306]

If I buy the newest one with the lowest miles I could find would you still answer the same?

HDi? Yeah Id still say the same as you won't find one newer than 2001 (assuming you dont want an estate). And low milage on an old car isnt good either, means theyve been sat for long periods and had even more chance to rust/seize/fail.

[Eeyore]

Tom if it needs a new clutch and everything once youve replaced those then its going to be just as good as the parts on a new car and you know its done. Im bored... im leaving.

[Toms306]

2 things - first it wont be the same as a new car, will still have a heavy clutch, uncomfortable noisy ride, dents/scuffs/scratches and a tiny turbo etc lol. And second why spend ~£700 on a car that will only be worth that afterwards? Its not even economically viable to fix as I keep saying.

As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.


I think the thread's run its course, it's now turned into a thread about the HDi which wasn't the purpose of it.

[Niall]

2 things - first it wont be the same as a new car, will still have a heavy clutch, uncomfortable noisy ride, dents/scuffs/scratches and a tiny turbo etc lol. And second why spend ~£700 on a car that will only be worth that afterwards? Its not even economically viable to fix as I keep saying

As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.


I think the thread's run its course, it's now turned into a thread about the HDi which wasn't the purpose of it.

Of course it is. You could say the same about a 62 plate car. If it needed new tyres all round, thats a few hundred quid right there. Is it worth it when the car will only be scrapped in years to come? Of course it is because its still got loads of life in it. All the things you listed above are classed as consumable items which you budget to replace/repair.

Its like saying your nan is getting on a bit so f*ck it, why bother getting her medication for her every week? Lets scrap her now and save money on her prescription.

[Toms306]

Its like saying your nan is getting on a bit so f*ck it, why bother getting her medication for her every week? Lets scrap her now and save money on her prescription.

I completely agree with this. people are living far too long now becuase natural selection can't work while doctors are shoving pills into old people all the time. Especially as they get them all free as well, ridiculous imo.

If you buy a 62 plate car and wear out all 4 tyres in less than about 3 years you're doing something wrong! But no, while the car is still worth several thousand pounds of course a few hundred on tyres isn't a waste. The 306 is worth what, £750 max if it was all working with plenty of T&T...so why the hell spend a lot of money fixing it? Its the same situation with the Golf....I could've fixed it and spent a grand on it....when it would only be worth £2k afterwards...or £2k if I broke it....so why spend a grand on it!? I'm not sure why this is such a difficult thing to understand.

[Niall]

Its like saying your nan is getting on a bit so f*ck it, why bother getting her medication for her every week? Lets scrap her now and save money on her prescription.

I completely agree with this. people are living far too long now becuase natural selection can't work while doctors are shoving pills into old people all the time. Especially as they get them all free as well, ridiculous imo.

If you buy a 62 plate car and wear out all 4 tyres in less than about 3 years you're doing something wrong! But no, while the car is still worth several thousand pounds of course a few hundred on tyres isn't a waste. The 306 is worth what, £750 max if it was all working with plenty of T&T...so why the hell spend a lot of money fixing it? Its the same situation with the Golf....I could've fixed it and spent a grand on it....when it would only be worth £2k afterwards...or £2k if I broke it....so why spend a grand on it!? I'm not sure why this is such a difficult thing to understand.

firstly, no your wrong about the natural selection. Most of the drugs they give make the remainder of their lives more comfortable. Very few drugs prolong your life.

Secondly, the skoda was on its 3rd set of tyres when it went back at 3 years. What was i doing wrong tom? It was on 71k so over due its cam belt and pump and a major service weighing in at thousands of pounds. Considering they offered me the car for 7k, is that car destined for the scrap yard at 3 years old just because it needs several grands worth of work?


(and no comments about how it was driven please

[Toms306]

Its like saying your nan is getting on a bit so f*ck it, why bother getting her medication for her every week? Lets scrap her now and save money on her prescription.

I completely agree with this. people are living far too long now becuase natural selection can't work while doctors are shoving pills into old people all the time. Especially as they get them all free as well, ridiculous imo.

If you buy a 62 plate car and wear out all 4 tyres in less than about 3 years you're doing something wrong! But no, while the car is still worth several thousand pounds of course a few hundred on tyres isn't a waste. The 306 is worth what, £750 max if it was all working with plenty of T&T...so why the hell spend a lot of money fixing it? Its the same situation with the bum poker....I could've fixed it and spent a grand on it....when it would only be worth £2k afterwards...or £2k if I broke it....so why spend a grand on it!? I'm not sure why this is such a difficult thing to understand.

firstly, no your wrong about the natural selection. Most of the drugs they give make the remainder of their lives more comfortable. Very few drugs prolong your life.

Secondly, the skoda was on its 3rd set of tyres when it went back at 3 years. What was i doing wrong tom? It was on 71k so over due its cam belt and pump and a major service weighing in at thousands of pounds. Considering they offered me the car for 7k, is that car destined for the scrap yard at 3 years old just because it needs several grands worth of work?


(and no comments about how it was driven please

Niall, you cant compare a fleet car doing like 30k a year to a normal use car doing like 12k.

And depending on the car, yes sometimes a newer car is destined for scrap when its only a few years old - Mums Fabia for example, bought from new, owned 6 years, covered nearly 100k and then needed fixing at the cost of £1500. Glasses guide price was £1500 for it so it wasn't worth the money being spent on it, so she traded it in and it was stuck in an auction and probs bought for a few hundred for some poor guy thats gotta pay more than it's worth to fix it, so yeah, 6 years old that was destined for scrap. Unless you really like a car, it gets to a point where theres no point fixing it as its just money wasted. I understand that a lot of people on here do really like their cars and probably try to ignore just how much they spend on them, as they know they could drive something much better for the same moneybut they don't want to. I totally understand that, but it's not the same for me and the HDi.

[Oil-burner]

Depends how you look at it tom.
My car cost £700 nialls kia £16500
Repair cost in 1.5 years mine £100 nialls £0 (obviously guessing

Car owes me £800 nialls £16500

I could sell it now for £750-£1000 nialls after 18 months ?? £10-12k tops!

Total loss after 18 months me £50 (bottom estimate)
Niall £4500 (top estimate)

Now which one is best value for money?



Sorry niall just used you as an example

[Niall]

Depends how you look at it tom.
My car cost £700 nialls kia £16500
Repair cost in 1.5 years mine £100 nialls £0 (obviously guessing

Car owes me £800 nialls £16500

I could sell it now for £750-£1000 nialls after 18 months ?? £10-12k tops!

Total loss after 18 months me £50 (bottom estimate)
Niall £4500 (top estimate)

Now which one is best value for money?



Sorry niall just used you as an example

Completely agreed you loose so much in the first 5 years of a cars life!

[Toms306]

So buy a 5 year old car.

You're looking at totally opposite ends of the scale Simon, we all know you lose a huge amount buying brand new. And tbh you're lucky if you only have to spend £100 on maintenance over a year and a half on any car.

You're also ignoring things like fuel, tax, insurance which are all much cheaper for new cars.