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**Niall** · 23-05-2012, 10:07 PM

Right some of you may have seen that my car failed its mot.
It's failed on

- near side front subframe mounting area is excessively corroded
- offside front subframe mounting area is excessively corroded
- carbon monoxide content at idle is excessive
- hydrocarbon content after 2nd fast idle is excessive
- lambda reading after 2nd fast idle outside limits

Now the emissions I'm not too fussed about. I'm going to refit the 1.8 manifold, jet wash my exhaust through to get rid of the oil and longlife are fitting a new cat now I have proof it's not working.
What concerns me is the corrosion.
Last time I was under the car (that's been a lot recently!) there was a broken away bit of under seal (same garage broke it away last year). At some point it has clearly been jacked up here and been damaged but there are no rotten holes...just surface rust. He has also broken away the under seal on the same point on the other side.
Now I don't dispute that its rusty but am I correct in thinking that it does have to be rotten to fail? He's quoted me Â£140 to weld it all up if I lift the carpet in the car.
If it does need welding and this is a genuine failure then that brings me onto my next point. Do I keep the car?
Tbh I've spent lots recently on getting it running well and it's still not right. I am positive it needs a new ECU and coil pack Â£300 so I'm considering breaking it and buying a 6 and leaving it standard other than some lowering and suspension mods. Possibly my exhaust but might sell that.

Thoughts? Input with regards to the corrosion and mot from someone that is a mechanic or works at a garage would be great!

**ginge191** · 23-05-2012, 10:48 PM

It does sound like the car needs a lot of work to keep it going :/

I think once it's done it's done (also, id be happy taking the 1.8 bottom end off you whistle

)

The idea of a GTI is not to my taking, perhaps get a derv to daily drive and build something special?

Connor · 23-05-2012, 11:50 PM

Get some pics of the rust/corrosion, hard to tell without seeing it

**Niall** · 24-05-2012, 06:46 AM

Connor Wrote:Get some pics of the rust/corrosion, hard to tell without seeing it

Will do later. Going to get it on stands and have a look

**Poodle** · 24-05-2012, 08:03 AM

Does sound a bit suspicious, ph3's aren't exactly known for being rust-buckets. I assume he expects you to go to him for the work..? Wink

I say stick with it, you've spent so much time getting this sorted it'd be daft to give up now. Besides, better the devil you know...

C.A.R. · 24-05-2012, 08:51 AM

5 years ago, when I had my XS and it was still worth Â£2k, the repairs wouldn've been justifyable. Unfortunately now, with prices being so very low, it doesn't really make economical sense Sad

You say there was a GTi6 nearby for sale? I think everybody should own a GTi6 at some point just so they can make their own mind up, but they are not the be-all and end-all of hot hatches anymore.

If you have any money behind you, want something as fun and fast as a GTi6 then I would recommend you start looking at the Renaulsport Clio's as a replacement.

**Ed Doe** · 24-05-2012, 09:05 AM

c.a.r. Wrote:5 years ago, when I had my XS and it was still worth Â£2k, the repairs wouldn've been justifyable. Unfortunately now, with prices being so very low, it doesn't really make economical sense

You say there was a GTi6 nearby for sale? I think everybody should own a GTi6 at some point just so they can make their own mind up, but they are not the be-all and end-all of hot hatches anymore.

If you have any money behind you, want something as fun and fast as a GTi6 then I would recommend you start looking at the Renaulsport Clio's as a replacement.

What you mean the Clio "nearly-182"?
Meh. Spending the same amount on a '6 you would dust it off in EVERY area. They're not actually as quick as a '6 in the 1st place, and parts are more expensive... and imo they don't look as good. But that's just my opinion...

I'm not saying you should blindly buy a '6 by any stretch; maybe save for a bit and get a little distance before making the decision on the next car? (if that's something you can do?)

I was in the same boat as you 2weeks ago mate, for a very different reason... But because I just live for the 306, I'm gonna have to buy another '6 Tongue

I think it's very strange they've picked up on the subframe mounting points being rusty; I would strongly suggest you get the exhaust and cat sorted,and get it MOT'd somewhere else...
If it fails there, we can address it, but as you say, I really don't think it will. We can always buy some Waxoyl/Red Oxide primer and a wire brush and just give it a lick of paint over the weekend if you want mate...? I think that'd be the best way forward if you're still worried it'll fail at another garage...

**Ben Jay** · 24-05-2012, 09:08 AM

get a d turbo...epic mpgs and coal!

Chris · 24-05-2012, 09:15 AM

Take it somewhere decent, the GF's mum had heres welded up there for her last mot and theres no need for the carpet to come out unless its the actual floor thats gone.

Think it cost her Â£160 inc the mot and the other bit of welding it needed below the headlight also.

C.A.R. · 24-05-2012, 09:58 AM

Ed,

I think your passion for the GTi6 is commendable but the Clio is a superior car, unfortunately. The 306 does look better, in my opinion, but the Clio beats it - they're significantly newer, especially when you consider that the GTi6 didn't really change much over time.

Alternatively you could save your pennies for a car which eluded me - a DC2 Integra. Lots of people buy them after owning GTi6s as they're the next 'tier' up.

Or you could go mental, buy a RWD Jap car or a Mazda MX5 and have more fun than is actually possible in any hatchback, no matter how hot...

Matt · 24-05-2012, 10:04 AM

Niall MTFU! You have put so much effort into this car mate, you can't stop now, also I have a coil pack from a 1.8 in my car Tongue

**Ben Jay** · 24-05-2012, 10:06 AM

c.a.r. Wrote:Ed,

I think your passion for the GTi6 is commendable but the Clio is a superior car, unfortunately. The 306 does look better, in my opinion, but the Clio beats it - they're significantly newer, especially when you consider that the GTi6 didn't really change much over time.

Alternatively you could save your pennies for a car which eluded me - a DC2 Integra. Lots of people buy them after owning GTi6s as they're the next 'tier' up.

Or you could go mental, buy a RWD Jap car or a Mazda MX5 and have more fun than is actually possible in any hatchback, no matter how hot...

or go even more mental and get a suzuki vitara....

**Ed Doe** · 24-05-2012, 10:26 AM

c.a.r. Wrote:Ed,

I think your passion for the GTi6 is commendable but the Clio is a superior car, unfortunately. The 306 does look better, in my opinion, but the Clio beats it - they're significantly newer, especially when you consider that the GTi6 didn't really change much over time.

Alternatively you could save your pennies for a car which eluded me - a DC2 Integra. Lots of people buy them after owning GTi6s as they're the next 'tier' up.

Or you could go mental, buy a RWD Jap car or a Mazda MX5 and have more fun than is actually possible in any hatchback, no matter how hot...

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate there are far better cars than the GTi6 out there, but in terms of driving enjoyment, bang for buck IMO a GTi6 is a better choice than a clio 182. Yes the Clio is newer, but the driving position is bad, the interior quality isnt great, and they manage to look a lot smaller than the 306 for some reason...
Yes, if your criteria is driving refinement, the clio is probably marginally better. BUT the big question if you're looking for driving refinement is why on god's earth are you considering a Clio at all?

I do agree a DC2 is definitely a great alternative as a driver's car. Shamelessly repeating most of what Ruan's told me already, the block will get up to temperature way quicker, so will reach optimum efficiency quicker, meaning better economy on shorter journeys. High revving, fun to drive, great chassis etc. But it should be all of those things considering a half decent one is Â£3k+, whereas you can probably have 90% of the driving fun in a '6 for Â£1500 for a good one!

I'm probably blinkered; I loved my GTi6, and I would suggest the set-up I was running (though far from perfect) made it one of the most entertaining ways of getting from A to B; a really really fun driver's car.
In summary I would still suggest the GTi6 is one of the most competitively priced diver's cars you can buy today without risking buying a complete shed.

I mean what else is there really?

an MX5 yes is a great alternative but imo theyre not powerful enough out the box
205 - getting rare now, cheaper ones have rust etc
106 - fairly small, not the most practical, still holding value above the 306 for a good gti. But good engines, and respond well to mods!
Clio - still a lot of money for what it is. and a bit luke-warm engine-wise.
DC2 - still on the pricey side. VTEC (Yoh!) is over-rated.
Golf GTI - mk4s are shyte, mk5s are still pricey
celica - Vvti the only one worth having, but as you well know CAR you have to be right at the top of the revs to get anywhere.
mr2 - dont know much about the prices of these, but if you can get a good un they're apparently a lot of fun..?
Fiat punto - dont even go there
Saxos - ditto
Fiat Bravo HGT - as old as the '6, slower, softer
Polo valver - small, slow
Seat Leon - understeery on the limit, cupra r still fairly pricey, quick and refined, but again pricey for what it is...
Scooby - image. ill say no more. and still pricey for one that's not been ragged to death
Teg dc5 - still holding value as they're good cars. Â£8k+ for a good one...
Civic ep3 - about as quick as a '6, ~Â£4k for a good one, and not the best handling cars out the box
Ford Focus st170 - slower than a '6, not as good to drive.

I'm struggling to think of any others?

trackbasedtuning · 24-05-2012, 10:38 AM

an MX5 - Good Giggle, but totally inpractical
205 - Owned two, orgasmic drive, wouldn't py what a lot of people do though
106 - S1 XSi FTW
Clio - Get a PH3 182 Full Phat, ITB, Beefy Cams, Lush. Unless you have size 12+ feet when you'll hit the steering column everytime you press the clutch
DC2 - Best Handling FWD car??? My Mk2 Overtook a k20'd one at Mallory...
Golf GTI - MK2 - Reminds me sooo much of the 205, just with more comfort. 3's, 4's 5's are wank
celica - wank
mr2 - Ignore the N/A if you want a quick car, ignore the stories, they're beautifully balanced.
Fiat punto - No
Saxos - No
Fiat Bravo HGT - No
Polo valver - No
Seat Leon - Never been a fan, if the Mk4 golf isn't to your liking, nor will this be
Scooby - No
Teg dc5 - Meh
Civic ep3 - Meh
Ford Focus st170 - It's a Ford

**Eeyore** · 24-05-2012, 10:38 AM

Id stick with the 1.8 mate. Youve done so much work to it and its a really good example of a 306. That garage sounds a bit dodgey how they picked it up an how they would deal with it. Id do what was suggested and paint it all up etc and put it through again at a different garage!

Pompey306mark · 24-05-2012, 11:24 AM

You have to weigh up this. How badly do you actually want a 6.

You have sent a good deal of money on this car and you like it. But if your passion is to own a 6 then buy one and strip and sell the 1.8.

No point you spend another Â£500 on this if in a few months you decide you wanted a 6 all along.

C.A.R. · 24-05-2012, 11:32 AM

I think if you can live with it, an MX5 is by far above any other driving experience you can ever have in a car in the same price bracket.

There is a reason why members on the MX5 forums also have 911s, RX-7s, Impreza's and other very high-powered cars. The MX5 (mk1, of course) is not fast, but it delivers so much enjoyment you will almost piss your pants giggling.

It's impractical yes, but I would have another one tomorrow if it wasn't for baby...

You can keep your Integra's, Focus ST's/RS's, Renaultsport Meganes, in fact any 'hot hatch' or indeed fast FWD Coupe, they simply don't compare - the MX5 overloads your senses to a point where speed becomes irrelevant.

Also, you now have to have a hot-hatch which has so much power it's silly before it becomes exciting. In the real world, the commuter car is a diesel. Instant satisfaction of doing great MPG. Whilst a hot-hatch or similar will out-accelerate the diesel equivalent in most situaitons, introduce a hill and your petrol car is on-par. Introduce motorway speed (60-85mph) and a diesel is superior, as the power pickup and torque is immediately available. More fun to drive? No, not by a long shot, but it serves a purpose and it 'outdoes' petrol cars on 95% of the journeys I do.

I've never missed a car as much as I have missed the MX5, as gay as that sounds. I'll disappear into your rear view mirror in no time (in fact I think my Diesel Focus would give my 1.8 Roadster a challenge...) but I will have the bigger grin on my face and ultimately that's what matters.

4WayDiablo · 24-05-2012, 12:38 PM

Back at the op, sand it down and hammerite it then take it somewhere else :-)

Strikeforce · 24-05-2012, 03:40 PM

I'd keep the 1.8 but if you are set on a gti then get the gti no point in spending more money then just sacking it off and buying a 6 anyway, if you're in 2 minds then only do mods that can be swapped over to the gti

Dum-Dum · 24-05-2012, 04:19 PM

Lift the carpet and see if its rusty on the inside, if not clean the surface rust off and hammerite it.

**Niall** · 24-05-2012, 04:43 PM

Errrr yeah do I might of bought a 6.....

[Image: 3a91abfc.jpg]

Before you slate me for getting rid of the 1.8 just because of the rust, there was several other reasons.

**Scott** · 24-05-2012, 04:44 PM

Ed Doe Wrote:I mean what else is there really?

an MX5 yes is a great alternative but imo theyre not powerful enough out the box
205 - getting rare now, cheaper ones have rust etc
106 - fairly small, not the most practical, still holding value above the 306 for a good gti. But good engines, and respond well to mods!
Clio - still a lot of money for what it is. and a bit luke-warm engine-wise.
DC2 - still on the pricey side. VTEC (Yoh!) is over-rated.
Golf GTI - mk4s are shyte, mk5s are still pricey
celica - Vvti the only one worth having, but as you well know CAR you have to be right at the top of the revs to get anywhere.
mr2 - dont know much about the prices of these, but if you can get a good un they're apparently a lot of fun..?
Fiat punto - dont even go there
Saxos - ditto
Fiat Bravo HGT - as old as the '6, slower, softer
Polo valver - small, slow
Seat Leon - understeery on the limit, cupra r still fairly pricey, quick and refined, but again pricey for what it is...
Scooby - image. ill say no more. and still pricey for one that's not been ragged to death
Teg dc5 - still holding value as they're good cars. Â£8k+ for a good one...
Civic ep3 - about as quick as a '6, ~Â£4k for a good one, and not the best handling cars out the box
Ford Focus st170 - slower than a '6, not as good to drive.

I'm struggling to think of any others?

This sums up my opinion really on what's out there in the hatch market at the moment. I'd love a DC2 but at the same time in my opinion it's not really a step up on on a GTi-6 but more of a sideways step.

One car you missed though is the RS Megane, which you can find for about the same money as a DC2. I've not driven one but I've heard they're a lot of fun and a similar experience to driving a 6 or teg, but you will end up going a fair amount faster before you end up feeling the limits of what it can do, and at that point you're well above legal speeds and it it's very unforgiving.

lol