106 gti

[RetroPug]

I was looking for a 106 gti/saxo vts/c2 vts engine to tinker with and then perhaps drop into something lightweight, like a citroen AX for a bit of fun.

However, a nearly-complete 88k mile 106gti (minus full exhaust incl. manifold, and minus seats & airbag) came up 35min away.

After a trip to collect it in my mate's disco it now sits on my drive.

It was being sold as a donor due to it being rotten and very rough (it is both), however it does start and stop despite being very loud with the engine blowing straight into the bay.

I'll pull the engine and then decide whether to repair the shell or just buy another car to drop it in. I haven't had a chance to fully look it over yet, but the driver's side sill appears to be made of something that isn't metal and there's rust in the rear arch next to a crack in the boot floor. As the aim was to build something that looked crap but was light and surprisingly quick, I've sort of fallen in love with the very untidy bodywork of this shell so we'll see.

Engine-wise I was thinking of not going too high budget but spending a bit to get decent performance. Possibly the most aggressive cams I can fit, exhaust and induction. However, I'd welcome any ideas! From reading 140hp at the fly is possible with the above and remapping which would be decent already.

[Danny Wideboy]

Nice. Look forward to updates.

[RetroPug]

Thanks.

The shell sure is untidy, which is fine as it was being sold as a donor for an engine conversion and I was told the shell wasn't worth repairing. The two main issues that I can see without having had a decent look are that the passenger sill is crumbly, but more seriously there's a crack in the boot floor that runs all along the seam where the wheel arch meets the boot floor (start of crack visible in the pictures). Underneath there's a rusty chunk missing out of the inner arch and it very slightly fouls the wheel rim (but it looks distorted so not sure if this is camber or metal distortion, probably both).

It's not looking promising, but then I've just done 3 of four corners of my gf's KA and one of them had instantly disappeared up inside the body when I jacked it up to have a look so...

I'm just not really sure how this crack has happened really, possibly an impact but there's no way you could do that without damaging the external panels...maybe it was rusted out and then hit a kerb/big bump and the shock caused the split as the seam was already rusted? The arch seam is rusty but not the clearly visible in the photo, clean crack in the boot floor so that must be sudden split?

It did come with an alpine head unit (not sure if working) and a 1/4 tank of fuel though! With a spare battery I had lying around it no longer needs a bumpstart (although this is disconnected to save it), and with the window seals popped back on by myself it no longer smells damp inside.

[Danny Wideboy]

That is a weird crack man.
Never seen that before, fatigue would normally be my answer but I don't see how that part of the car can flex to cause that. Odd.

[RetroPug]

That is a weird crack man. 

I hear that from all the girls.

Yeah the only thing I can think of is the seam along the wheel arch had rusted and split due to rust, and then that somehow propagated across the boot floor due to fatigue as you said, or maybe a kerb bump shocked the crack into being way bigger.

[Martin306]

Yeah the axle bolts right next to that, the seam of the boot floor gives it strength. I'll say it was a bump or it's been rallyed over a speed hump.

I've seen that before, normally on both sides. It's all pretty square underneath anyway so it's relatively easy to repair.

[RetroPug]

Yeah. If I rock the car I can see it all deforming.

I'm leaning towards putting the engine in something else at the moment. Possibly something pre-cat and light like an early citroen ax.

[welshpug]

very common that, a decent cage would help

not one of the crappy cupcar things.

[RetroPug]

Yeah, it is repairable, it needs plating in the arch, then the boot floor welded to the new, good metal.

I think I'm going to be using this as a donor, which was the initial plan anyway.

[RetroPug]

I started stripping this. My plan is to take pretty much everything that makes this a 106 gti mechanically and put it onto a Citroen AX.

The car actually has a few good bits on it that help with this. Whilst I'm not a huge fan of them, the control arms are polybushed so not old and worn, hence they can be used. The radiator was a nissens one so it isn't 20 years old and rusty etc. There's also the odd other modified part such as a shift kit and a polybushed torque reactor.

Whilst the engine is out, the plan is to upgrade the performance of it a bit. I'm not sure how far I'd like to go at this stage. I've only done a little research into various performance vs. cost options. It will probably at least involve different camshafts and a full exhaust system which seems to give decent performance for not bad outlay. Possibly a shorter ratio gearbox as well and some other bolt-ons like a flywheel.

I've tried having a google but what's the best 106 forum these days? Need to sell 106 gti bits I'm not using, ask questions as I go along and eventually start buying bits. I'm sure a lot of buying/selling is fb now which I've stopped using but I suppose I could temporarily restart.

Can anyone think of anything I could do with keeping that I've not thought of yet for the AX? So far I'm thinking:

• Engine, gearbox & driveshafts
  
• All engine bay wiring & electricals eg. ECU
  
• EPAS
  
• All front steering & suspension (incl. steering rack, FARB etc.)
  
• Brakes (servo and MC as well probably or not necessary?)
  
• Clocks and ignition wiring in case I decide to just swap the lot over
  
• Possibly even entire interior loom & lockset to make conversion easier on the wiring front
  
• Fuel pump
  
• All transmission stuff eg. linkages
  
• Rear axle and anything bolted to it eg. load compensator if 106s have them
  

I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks it'd be easier to just get the wiring to join what's on the AX or whether swapping all electricals then stripping down a lot of the body loom eg. no electric windows etc. would be better.

[mr_fish]

Interested to see this in an AX. Proper go kart, just geet some decent brakes on it!

On a side note, could you tell me where the servo takes its Vac feed from on the engine?

[Martin306]

Make sure it's a facelift AX, or your front ARB won't fit as the loops on the floor won't be there for the bracket.

I think it would be easier to just splice the engine loom to work with the AX interior loom. Should be fairly straight forward. The plugs at the dash end are similar too! (again on the facelift one)

If it's powerflex rear bushes on the lower arms, chuck the brackets in the bin because they're shit. They will bend under heavy braking. Standard bushes are more than up to it - or go mental and get solid bushes.

The power steering rack won't fit the AX unless you swap over the whole pedal box - which means using the brake bar and servo/cylinder etc as well because it's a different length. Oh and you'll need to modify where the steering column bolts as the 106 GTi has 3 bolts and an AX has 2 (same as S1 106) and they're in different places and you can't use the AX column with the 106 PAS rack because the column is too short!

I'd just leave the standard AX steering gear on as it is.

If you keep the standard GTi front brakes, you won't need a load compensator on the rear axle. They're MORE than up to the job, AX weighs a lot less even although you're adding power, there's less momentum to stop. My 106 GTi weighed 990kgs without me in it!

Drill the spot welds to remove and use the upper engine mount from the 106, and weld it into the AX. it's far stronger than cutting the 8v engine mount to "make it fit" the AX mount.

Saxperience or the 106 rallye register is probably the best place to sell these days, both places fairly quiet though.

The vac feed for the servo comes from a connector on the bottom of the plastic inlet, just next to the throttle body. they snap really easily.


Anyway, that's my 2p worth

[RetroPug]

Really good information, thanks a lot. Lots to think about. I may have to pick your brain again in the future!

Did the pre-facelift cars not run FARBs at all? Or just a different one? Is the wiring very different on early cars?

I'll remember to take out the engine mount as well, thanks!

I'll use all the standard bits to start off with ie. brakes etc. to get it all up & running and then upgrades in the future maybe. I want to build something fun but not for silly money for now!

Thanks for the steering system info, I'll keep the bits anyway just in case I end up buying a shell. Can always sell them/bin them later! I'd rather keep stuff on the AX and not need it than have to buy another!

[Martin306]

No worries

The pre facelift has a slightly different floor pan. this is hard to me to describe, the front metal thingies the lower arms bolt to are a different shape at the back. the ARB setup on early models runs a square lower arm, and the anti roll bar bolts directly to the lower arm with no drop links.

Next time I'm under my 106 (which probably wont be long) I'll take a picture of the bit I mean.

I don't think the wiring is too different, I used to have a diagram with details of pinouts but I've no idea where it is. if you've got a few months (lol) to wait for a reply perhaps have a look or make a post on AXOC? I've 100% got a dashboard pinout though!

[RetroPug]

Okay so basically I'd ideally have a facelift one as then my control arms will fit as well as the FARB.

Would facelifted, pre-1993 cars run catalysts or not do you know? Or is it dependant on engine?


Axle came off of this the other day, hoping to get the engine and box out next weekend if I've got time.

[Martin306]

Okay so basically I'd ideally have a facelift one as then my control arms will fit as well as the FARB.

Would facelifted, pre-1993 cars run catalysts or not do you know? Or is it dependant on engine?


Axle came off of this the other day, hoping to get the engine and box out next weekend if I've got time.

Well the control arms fit any, just the ARB wouldn't 

Basically anything pre (August?) 1993 doesn't need a cat. This goes for engine as well, so if you had a 1996 AX and put a 1991 engine in it, and could prove it, then it won't need a cat.

[RetroPug]

A bit more of an update as I have been very busy with other things and also went abroad for a short while.

The rear axle is off, and the engine is out. Just a few more bits to strip off the car and the shell can then be scrapped and I've still got to sell all the other surplus parts.

The engine and box are still on the crane so need to get the gearbox off and get it on the stand as well to freshen up a bit and sort oil lleaks etc.

I think the plan is to freshen it up and then get it in and get it running first, as I'd only be doing simple-ish mods they could be done with the engine in-situ so better to get it running in std. spec on a std. map first rather than making it more complicated than it needs to be!

Hope to keep updating fairly regularly. I'll post bits on Instagram occasionally as well if anyone wants to follow that just PM me. Also if anyone needs 106 bits, even bits cut off the shell, let me know.

[RetroPug]

Everything to do with this project is up for sale as I've bought something else!

Thread here:
https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=37128

[RetroPug]

No it's not! I sold a bunch of parts but nothing needed for the conversion, and now I've put a deposit down on an S1 106 XSi to convert so watch this space.