Electric Cars

[Hobo Ash]

Reading an article at lunchtime regarding Volvo developing some new electric cars for sale in a few years got me thinking about how long it currently takes to charge a battery in comparison to filling up with fuel in a few minutes, some electric cars have the 400 mile range which would be good enough but just take too long to charge.
This got me thinking- do you think that instead of recharging batteries, there will just be battery dispensers at 'Petrol garages' where you just swap an empty battery for a full one? I know they are relatively heavy, but when they get lighter could this be a thing?

[Doseph]

I used to think that's how it would work in the future but most manufacturers seem to be going down the fast charge route rather than swapping batteries out. Also i dont think the likes of Audi would be vrey keen on people being able to put a fake chinese batteries in their cars....

I think you can charge a car in less than an hour at some of the newer charge points which is pretty impressive

[Hobo Ash]

Haha that's true! And I guess only having 2 or 3 different types of batteries wouldn't work either.
Yeah that is good, the half hour quick charge to get you a short distance is good too, just not as quick as filling a tank of diesel

[Ruan]

It's coming, they've been doing tests of full charges in 5-10 mins, as long as a tank of diesel... Currently requires liquid cooled charging cables, but it's on it's way...

Can't wait for the massive surge of purchasing electric cars and watching all the brown outs as everyone plugs them in of an evening.

[Magenta Sunset]

fuel-cell will be the true future IMHO.

"Can't wait for the massive surge of purchasing electric cars and watching all the brown outs as everyone plugs them in of an evening. "

[Mighty306]

Good point about the drain on the grid Ruan. Hadn't thought of that! Also, people may be charging when it's neither sunny nor windy so fossil fuels will still be the energy source.

Guess most of you will have seen Volvo have announced they'll only produce electric or hybrid cars after 2019!!!!

[welshpug]

indeed, Run has nailed the thing they have forgotten, I have a friend that works for western power and he said the grid has nowhere near the capacity required for the country to go electric cars.


they are getting there insofar as there's far less reliance on fossil fuel, there's always a bit of wind and the tide never stops, they need to work harder on harnessing these forces.


one thing I'm still not convinced of, all these precious metals and chemicals going into the batteries, is producing and transporting these (currently by using fossil fuels) any less harmful than the pretty clean fossil fuel engines we have these days?

and what happens when the batteries reach the end of their lives? can they be recycled efficiently and be financially viable?

[Ruan]

indeed, Run has nailed the thing they have forgotten, I have a friend that works for western power and he said the grid has nowhere near the capacity required for the country to go electric cars.


they are getting there insofar as there's far less reliance on fossil fuel, there's always a bit of wind and the tide never stops, they need to work harder on harnessing these forces.


one thing I'm still not convinced of, all these precious metals and chemicals going into the batteries, is producing and transporting these (currently by using fossil fuels)  any less harmful than the pretty clean fossil fuel engines we have these days?

and what happens when the batteries reach the end of their lives?  can they be recycled efficiently and be financially viable?

Not to do with fossil fuel reliance - we've got shitloads of it if we can be arsed to get at it. It's all to do with air quality at the moment (read: the air quality people are bitching the most). Lithium we have an abundance of and it isn't difficult to mine - it's found as a salt, it's also reasonably abundant at 17ppm of the earth vs 10ppm of Lead for example.

The main one we have problems with is copper - but we probably use almost as much in combustion engines as we do in EVs and other materials are coming to be used in EV manufacture. It's coming whether you like it or not - there's no denying it now! The recycling of all of these is totally viable and we've been doing it for years. The energy used in the whole cycle still less than an IC car could ever hope to achieve and it resolves the air pollution at source - not to mention from here-on in it's only going to get better. We've been trying to resolve IC engine emissions for 30 years and look what happened in the end. Treating the emissions out of a 100 coal fired power station is easy in comparison to fixing the emissions out of billions of IC cars.

The grid is totally f*cked though - they cannot hope to get the infrastructure there in time. Our country was electrified in Victorian times and became widespread very early on, it's a complete shitfest already, let alone moving transport onto that too. There's gonna be some stonking transformer fires lol!

[r3k1355]

do you think that instead of recharging batteries, there will just be battery dispensers at 'Petrol garages' where you just swap an empty battery for a full one? 

That would never work, the batteries would just get knackered by people man-handling them.

Just remember, the general public can't even share a toilet without ruining it.
You expect them to share delicate electrical equipment??

No chance!

indeed, Run has nailed the thing they have forgotten, I have a friend that works for western power and he said the grid has nowhere near the capacity required for the country to go electric cars.


they are getting there insofar as there's far less reliance on fossil fuel, there's always a bit of wind and the tide never stops, they need to work harder on harnessing these forces.


one thing I'm still not convinced of, all these precious metals and chemicals going into the batteries, is producing and transporting these (currently by using fossil fuels)  any less harmful than the pretty clean fossil fuel engines we have these days?

and what happens when the batteries reach the end of their lives?  can they be recycled efficiently and be financially viable?

The main one we have problems with is copper - but we probably use almost as much in combustion engines as we do in EVs and other materials are coming to be used in EV manufacture. It's coming whether you like it or not - there's no denying it now! The recycling of all of these is totally viable and we've been doing it for years. The energy used in the whole cycle still less than an IC car could ever hope to achieve and it resolves the air pollution at source - not to mention from here-on in it's only going to get better. We've been trying to resolve IC engine emissions for 30 years and look what happened in the end. Treating the emissions out of a 100 coal fired power station is easy in comparison to fixing the emissions out of billions of IC cars.

There's actually a surprising amount of usable copper about, issue is the cost of the stuff.
One of the reasons it's so high is because it is used as an investment vehicle, the Chinese are big in that area.

They buy up an entire warehouse of refined bight copper, then use that as collateral to obtain government loans.
That money is then pumped into property development which see's huge returns in China.

Once the government loan is paid off with profit from property the copper can then be used as collateral for another loan, rinse and repeat.
So there's literally warehouses of this stuff sat around all over the place, but it's only use is to secure finance for other projects.

[Midnightclub]

I swear Tesla in the states do actually offer a battery swap service, you drive in swap batteries and pay the difference (depending on your existing one's condition) and then drive off.

[Ruan]

Yeah they did, I think they canned it - it cost $80 or so for the swap anyway and everyone just used the standard Supercharger stations they put in everywhere which are fast enough for most people and free.

[Midnightclub]

Ahh fair enough then. It's a shame Tesla's are so expensive tbh.

[bashbarnard]

Nissan leafs arent. I have a secret love for them. If I could afford one id buy it just to get me to work and back. About 20 miles a day. Then keep a fun car in the garage


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[Midnightclub]

Issue I have with the whole Leaf thing is you don't 'own' the battery or something, it's a lease or something to that effect. No idea how that would work if you ever wanted to sell it - i think that's everyones ideal scenario though, electric car daily and something spicy for the weekend. No engine noise in traffic, instant torque for pulling away etc..

Other stuff I like at the moment, regular petrol cars converted to electric.. A few cool ones I've seen, Ferrari 308, Lotus Evora, E36 (with 800 lb/ft) and some 1600+ hp mustang drag racer with ludicrous torque numbers

[r3k1355]

Nissan leafs arent. I have a secret love for them. If I could afford one id buy it just to get me to work and back. About 20 miles a day. Then keep a fun car in the garage

I'm the same really, but then who's going to drop over 20 grand on a car that literally will only do the commute and nothing more??
What if I loose my job and end up working in another city, I'm f*cked then, stuck with some electric car that I can't use and is a tough sell.

Don't have that kind of money to risk personally.