GTI6 beam fitted, front end now has more roll

[MY95]

What spring would you suggest Piggy?
Scraping just over speed bumps, some bits of roads etc

[Toms306]

Tbh I think you better get a lift kit if you're having so much of an issue at comfort ride height!

Everyone scrapes speedbumps...

[MY95]

No lift kit needed, only scrapes on the rare occasion ahah, I never used to scrape speed bumps before adding the splitter
Anyway, stiffer springs for standard height? or is there no such thing aha?

[Toms306]

Its only a lump of black plastic, used to scrape mine coming off the drive every day where I used to live, still looked ok unless laying on the floor!

No such thing as stiffer standard height afaik. The optimum for comfort and handling is about 30mm drop like Eibach do. (eibachs and GTi shocks on the estate)

[MY95]

Car needs a clean on the bottom photo cant decide whether I prefer your diablo or china estate aha   This is how it sits as of today  Cant change the upside down thing sorry :/ 

   

[Toms306]

A clean? It was f*cked by that point, couldn't take the abuse...this was the same day iirc!



Drove it without an exhaust, door handle, slipping clutch, rear arch rust and broken turbo for another few months before breaking it and buying a Vectra!

Upside down pics again?

[MY95]

That sounds like a shed.... but why a Vectra though? 306 FTMFW Tom, should know that by now
I know, fml it always happens, must be iphones or my iPhone aha
But yeah that's standard HDI bottom model front suspension and rear GTI6 beam with solids.

[Toms306]

It wasn't a shed when I bought it... 306s can't take the abuse I throw at them lol!! Still averaged 55mpg on a stage 1 being a workhorse though haha. Vectra was worse on fuel and far less practical... Should've bought another Golf instead of the Vectra tbh.

On a topical note, I really can't visualise the height upside down. But honestly, you won't notice any more issues with a 30mm drop than you do now, but will have much better handling!

[MY95]

Haha fair dos, you and your Golfs Tom, should marry one
The front currently sits very slightly lower than the rear, GTI6 rear and HDI front (wonder why it sits a little higher at the back with no difference at all between HDI and GTI at rear), so going lower would make it look a bit funny :/

[Toms306]

Too bloody expensive to buy let alone marry haha.

Hmm, are you completely sure you're on standard front springs? Front should be higher than the back with a GTi beam and comfort fronts.

[MY95]

Haha fair dos Tom and yes definitely Tom, I like how it sits at the moment, slightly too high, but not that it bothers me that much id spend a decent amount of money lowering it, would rather put that money into ball joints, p bushes etc etc

[toseland]

I found that mine would scrape and get caught on kerbs (say parking nose onto them in parking spaces etc) when I had the standard height rear beam,

this was sorted with the lowered beam as the front nose was lower because of the angle of the rear.. now its level its just a little bit higher because of the angles, and this is even though the front is a little lower..

I will post a side on profile of that moonstone with standard springs and VTS shocks on it later when I get in.. (the one toms posted) as I bought it and have recently done the front end completely.

[MY95]

That's what I meant re parking the nose on the kerbs (not parking the car on kerbs jesus) Not lowering the rear though, car needs a few other bits done at the moment.
Thanks Toseland!

[Toms306]

I have no idea why you guys are parking so far forward... Or pulling in forward, reverse in, makes it easier to get out and wont have any scraping issues.

[MY95]

What about D Turbo HDI springs? supposed to be a bit lower and stiffer, and supposed to go with GTI axle as standard!
Although most places only sell springs for HDI's with no different part numbers or D Turbo's :/ ECP does none at all when putting a DT HDI reg in :/

[Toms306]

You won't get new DTurbo HDi springs any more, factors don't sell them as different to comfort spec, only place to try is genuine Peugeot but I'm not sure they still make 306 springs?

I'll be selling the 40mm on GTi shocks from mine soon, ride a bit higher with the lighter HDi engine. Won't be expensive so up to you if you want to try a slight drop before spending on decent stuff...

[MY95]

You won't get new DTurbo HDi springs any more, factors don't sell them as different to comfort spec, only place to try is genuine Peugeot but I'm not sure they still make 306 springs?

I'll be selling the 40mm on GTi shocks from mine soon, ride a bit higher with the lighter HDi engine.  Won't be expensive so up to you if you want to try a slight drop before spending on decent stuff...

Ive found Mister Auto do Sachs ones (like mine, exact same place I bought mine from 2 year ago), with the correct D Turbo part number for £43 a side, so a bit pricey being 86 just for two standard springs! Especially when I bought their standard HDI spring 2 year ago for £23!

So ive gone off that idea, going to freshen up the front end with new TRW wishbones and Febi droplinks and see if that makes things a bit better, before thinking of buying lower springs or anything, could be possible that berlingo/partner ones will be stiffer and a bit lower due to the front end weight of one of them?

[Toms306]

Ah, fair enough, I know ECP and GSF don't do the right springs lol.

I don't think Partners/Berlingos are any heavier at the front? Same engine and all the extra weight would be over the back? However if they are stiffer I'm pretty sure they'll actually be higher than the originals anyway, ever seen cyclones on one? The arch gap is ridiculous lol.

[MY95]

Yeah I knew them two didn't, but mister auto do, out of stock though, surprise!
They may be a bit heavier with heavier suspension bits etc etc, doubt it would be much though.
I haven't Tom, sounds like its worth a look aha

[powerandtorque]

I'm not sure that DTurbo spec springs are going to be much stiffer anyway TBH - it'll likely be a few percent difference I'd have thought.

Which is not a lot when you consider that you'll have increased the rear roll stiffness by something in the region of 150% I'd guess (haven't done the calculations, but it'll be in that sort of ballpark) hence why the front and back now feel somewhat mis-matched compared to how it was before the beam swap.

[MY95]

Thanks powerandtorque, you've got all of that spot on! What would you recommend as the front is far too soft compared to the back like you said

[powerandtorque]

As I think was said on the first page, you've two options if you want to increase front roll stiffness to better match it to the back - stiffer front springs and/or a stiffer front anti-roll bar.

Given that you don't want to lower the car you're going to be limited in spring choices I'd imagine, so that only really leaves a thicker front ARB.

I think you'll have a 19mm one on yours now being a non-sport spec HDi hatchback, so a 21mm one off any sport-spec car or a HDi estate seems the easiest option to reduce front roll/pitch. Yes a thicker ARB has it's own issues, primarily with traction/grip on the inside wheel, but it's hardly a major issue and certainly I don't recall many negative comments about the way a GTi-6 drives in terms of balance and body control.

There are 20mm ARB's listed on Servicebox that would be a half-way house but I'm not 100% sure on what models you'd find them - looks like some TU and XUD estates.

Some firmer dampers to better control the pitching movement would be a good idea too if you're still using the Meridian spec stuff that's distinctly lacking IMO.

Basically, my viewpoint is aim to duplicate the sport-spec suspension found on GTi-6's and the like and you're unlikely to go too far wrong on a road car.

[MY95]

I was thinking of duplicating the GTI suspension, but that would mean fitting GTI dampers and HDI DT springs, which are hard to find new and not cheap, and you said wouldn't be that much stiffer.

Currently on sachs stuff for a standard GLX HDI, as said on the first page what I currently have is:

http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/front-sh...0!456.html
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/coil-spr...7!934.html

Thanks again powerandtorque

[Toms306]

Honestly, you won't regret fitting Eibachs. Yes they're a bit lower but you have to compromise somewhere, there's no way to keep your height and get stiffer up front...

[Midnightclub]

If you're worried about parking against kerbs with a 40mm drop, just park further back?

[Toms306]

If you're worried about parking against kerbs with a 40mm drop, just park further back?

Already said this lol....or reverse in!

306s aren't exactly long...unless Matt is one of those annoying people that parks so far into a space it looks like its empty until you get to it!

[MY95]

Its more the fact I have no one that can lower my rear beam for me, and that lowering the front puts a lot more stress on bushes etc.

Otherwise id quite happily go 30mm lower and just not park that close to the curb, and go slower over speed bumps and steep up or downhills.

Only park close to the curb to keep the car fully in the spot and so no buffoon crashes into it (happened before having people crash into me while im parked up, even at home! and its annoying as some people don't admit to it so you have to pay for the damage yourself.... rant over anyway)

[Toms306]

If you're replacing the p bushes you just have to angle them up a bit more when it's lowered. And the front wishbone bush is torqued when under load anyway, don't think it'll put more strain on anything else?

You don't need the beam lowered for 30mm front drop, I've had rear lowered and not with various front setups, in fact all of the hdi beams above are standard DTurbo height...

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As for slowing down up and down hill...lol... I just let mine scrape the splitter and carry on, it's only speed humps where I slow down more than in the focus.

[MY95]

Yeah buying new TRW wishbones Tom, havent got a splitter on at the moment (long story) but I noticed today even at standard height it just clears the curb at the sport centre by a few mm
Also the rear is sitting slightly higher than the front (noticeable) and also is higher on the back left (also noticeable) although fully refurbed and put back to standard height (330mm)
Not ideal for passengers in the car thinking 'what was that noise, am I going to die' so I prefer not to scrape at all less damage to front bumper/splitter too aha

[powerandtorque]

If the beam has been fully refurbished then it should be a doddle to change the height to match whatever springs you fit.

The problem is usually freeing off a beam that's been untouched in 15+ years (especially as they often didn't grease the splines properly - Xsara beams seem especially bad for some reason) and then finding out that the beam is tired and needs rebuilding.

The car should be sat broadly level across a given axle though, so if it's noticeably higher on one side than the other there's possibly something amiss somewhere.