BHP

[TY-HDI]

Hi all.

Not been oh here for a while but what power are people getting from the dw10 now? Seen a fb post claiming 230 has been done a few times? I find that hard to believe.

Cheers

[bashbarnard]

Have a look through the project threads. There is a guy on here who runs little tractors on that engine with 400hp so it is possible depends how deep your pockets are.

[toseland]

mine is 174 and not getting enough boost..

stage 3's seem reliably to be pulling between 170 and 190 depending on the rest of the setup..

as bash said, deeper pockets for some forged shiney internals and you can see upwards of 250bhp,. 220-230 being the reliable maximum without valvetrain work..

gearbox/torque through it is the limiting factor at higher torque figures.. as they start to kill gears and bearings above 325 ish from what i have read..

my standard clutch is *just about* handling a potential of 280ft/lb

[JTaylor2005]

Yeah I recently saw the same facebook post. It was done by Dervtech. They say they have a larger injector kit now as well. I would like to know more tbf but I don't see them letting their secrets go that easily unless you were buying the stuff

[Jonny81191]

You could achieve 200 or so on a pretty much stock engine, but it'd fail fairly quickly with the extra stress on everything. Those larger injectors are stock from another vehicle AFAIK, if I knew which one I'd say but I'm still working on finding out.. The main problem is cost though, it's uncharted territory for the most part above 180 bhp, and the few that go beyond it seem to run into problems fairly quickly.

[Poodle]

There's a few around getting 180 plus now, haven't seen more than a couple get much over 200 and at least one of those has been broken. That's not to say they aren't out there and it isn't possible though, there's a few threads in the guide and project sections that will help you out a lot.

[MY95]

Arent those 'uprated' injectors the Alfa JTD ones Jonny?

[Poodle]

That's one possibility...

[Jonny81191]

Yeah, possibly alfa ones. I don't know.

[DeeTurbo]

I thought they only use the nozzles rather then the whole injector?

[Poodle]

Afaik yes.

[jammapic]

FYI... We don't use Alfa Injectors ;-) Something totally, completely and utterly different with correct firing angle and 40% flow improvement.

Stage 3 190hp with 700c EGT (when coupled with a decent turbo), and 230hp+ fuelling potential, piece of cake.

JP

[MY95]

Sounds like Land Rover injectors or similar to me, well that size anyway aha, doubt its anything PSA.
Thats a very good find with those stats though James!

[bashbarnard]

Sounds like Land Rover injectors or similar to me, well that size anyway aha, doubt its anything PSA.
Thats a very good find with those stats though James!

Landy nozzles fit directly on the hdi injectors but no idea about what angle they are on the hdi injector. Would need looking into. When theyre on landrover bodys with mtdi they still need rotating a fair bit more than even i had mine to get correct spray angle.

[toseland]

Scania nozzles would work, I will dig up the info

[Poodle]

Yes, if you want to flood the chamber lol. Try something a bit smaller first if i were you, remember mech nozzles will flow a lot more than commonrail due to the injection pressures they are designed for.

The info for scania nozzles is in the pinned thread from Japie if anyone is interested.

[toseland]

I have been reading, incidentally a post by Bryn, that bosch service centres can convert the injectors to have a bigger lift...

wondering if they still can.. that and the C32 AMG nozzles would work well imo, although without optimal spray angle

[Poodle]

The amg nozzles were found to be far from ideal, hence the ongoing search for something a bit closer to spec. Iirc Lars was using the amg nozzles years ago in his 205, pretty sure Bryn used them in his hdi too if you'd like something more recent/better documented. Bosch service centres can do all sorts of exciting things with the injectors, the problem is finding one willing to do it and at an attainable price - a few years back somebody got a quote for the work, but it was at something like £400 per injector.

[darrenjlobb]

You can get injectors sorted out for alot less than that ^^!

[Poodle]

Who do you use? I've never actually made enquiries myself on the basis that i couldn't afford at a quarter of that price lol.

[toseland]

i would still love to know what injectors people are using that are "almost identical to stock but with extra flow" from another vehicle.... because i have literally been trawling the web for about the last month and i keep seeing references to these magical injectors, i have read almost every post on here, theywhoshallnotbenamed, various alfa and other peugeot forums as well as some of the ford TDCi lumps. (there are 2 references in this post alone) and have not ever seen a vehicle reference for the nozzles or injectors they are taken from.. even looking at Bosch-seimens spec sheets doesnt seem to turn up trumps.. there are different flow amounts but they all have shit angle specs for the HDi... alfa ones are the only ones i can see that are close to spec and they flow less due to the overall smaller holes (albeit more of them)

there are the obvious ones that dont work well, (AMG C32, 330D, Alfa - which are ok but flow differently due to the different hole setup) and not one person says "this is the one to use for 230bhp"

i am starting to think that its maybe bullshit and they are doing what most normal car tuners do "OMG I HAVE FOUND TEH HOLY GRAIL OF MOD FOR MAD BHP BUT I AM NOT TELLING ANYONE CAUSE IT DOESNT ACTUALLY WORK VERY WELL"

[Poodle]

Alfa 1.9 8v nozzles have been used, can't remember where or by who unfortunately, flow tests supposedly show them to flow about 15% more iirc. It's not exactly an earth shattering increase is it...

I expect the uprated nozzles come from a mechanical pumped di system, there are more options thanks to more old engines using an 8v head.

[jammapic]

i am starting to think that its maybe bullshit and they are doing what most normal car tuners do "OMG I HAVE FOUND TEH HOLY GRAIL OF MOD FOR MAD BHP BUT I AM NOT TELLING ANYONE CAUSE IT DOESNT ACTUALLY WORK VERY WELL"

To be honest, it's how tuners make money... if all the information was public knowledge like what to use; how to map the car, with what software etc; then the business wouldn't make any money, simple.

I can assure you, the big nozzles do work - and showed excellent results in our dyno testing of them.

We've sold a few sets now, and each customer has been very happy with the results whether mapped here on the dyno by us, or run on a base file sent via email.

JP

[bashbarnard]

What jammapic says is sadly true. We all naturally want to know but they wouldn't make the money they do. Saying this we CAN work out ways round it and I HAVE built things capable unfortunately its always the way. Its like when apple release a new IOS people want the jailbreak not the ios. Injectors are hard to find info on for this reason it took me 6 months I think to figure out how to get an mtdi to run!

[zx_volcane]

you could get standard injectors honed out for about £35 each

[toseland]

i am starting to think that its maybe bullshit and they are doing what most normal car tuners do "OMG I HAVE FOUND TEH HOLY GRAIL OF MOD FOR MAD BHP BUT I AM NOT TELLING ANYONE CAUSE IT DOESNT ACTUALLY WORK VERY WELL"

To be honest, it's how tuners make money... if all the information was public knowledge like what to use; how to map the car, with what software etc; then the business wouldn't make any money, simple.

I can assure you, the big nozzles do work - and showed excellent results in our dyno testing of them.

We've sold a few sets now, and each customer has been very happy with the results whether mapped here on the dyno by us, or run on a base file sent via email.

JP

I wasn't talking about custom nozzles, I was talking about off the shelf replacements for another car.

What price is this set of nozzles going for jp.. and are they standard off of another car or custom? I may be interested when I sort the r70 and rail sensor