Fog light rant!

[Piggy]

Having to control things IMO aids concentration and driver awareness.

If you have to put on your lights/wipers then you are more consciously aware of the changing driving conditions.

And is that a joke that you can't notice almighty HUGE "STOP" sign on the dash.

If your vision is that bad, no manner of "Fog" lights at night are going to help fella.

If you view ABS as a safety net then that just underlines concerns already mentioned. You should be in control 100% of the time.

[Toms306]

I'm still aware of driving conditions lol, if its raining I do tend to notice...

Not a joke no...concentrating on the road I cant see the stop light pop up until I look down at it. I didn't realise that was any different to anyone else though. Meh, unlike me to be different isn't it.

How can you possibly be in control 100% of the time? You could come round a corner to a diesel spill or hit black ice or anything, you must realise its just not possible for a human to do anything 100%!? And when an unexpected 'crisis' occurs, I'll try my best to rectify it, however as I don't have a separate brake pedal for each wheel theres only so much you can do.

[Niall]

You're taking it out of proportion/perspective I think.  I have owned and do own a car with next to no driver aids...it does take away some concentration to operate certain controls, whether that's eyes off the road or hands off the wheel, I don't know how you can deny that?  I'm not saying I couldn't drive without them there, obviously I can and do, but if there's a safer option available, why would you actively avoid that?

Because is it safer? If cars get to a point where you just have to point them in the right direction, people will not pay attention. They will think its ok to sit there on their phone whilst doing 60 because they dont need to make sure they are staying below the speed limit. Their variable cruise will do that. They dont need to brake because their emergency breaking will do that. They dont need to stay in between the lines because their active lane guidance will do that for them yet with all of these, you are relying on a computer that has a tiny amount of thinking power compared to a human that when concentrating, should be constantly carrying out a risk assessment of whats ahead of them and changing their driving style to suit this. A computer just cant do that as effectively.

 Really annoys me when people do things like removing ABS, yeah 9 times out of 10 maybe they don't lock up on a wet corner coming across a hazard...but personally I'd like to have that safety net, for everyone else as much as myself, for the 10th time when you're not at full concentration for whatever reason, and I guarantee no-one is at full concentration/ability for 100% of the time.  You also don't know how you'll react in a crisis situation until you're in one.

For once i agree with you there. There is only two situations i can think of where by having no ABS on the road would be better. Track use, yes get rid but thats a whole different kettle of fish.
Although everyone should be at 100% concentration all the time, they arent. No one is otherwise we wouldn't have car crashes.

How do you plan to implement this removing licences due to lack of skill?

The police do that. They see bad driving, they give the driver points for their troubles or if severe enough, send them to court to have their licence revoked

 It amazes me how some of my Nans friends drive to hers, theres one old lady in particular, she cant walk more than a few steps, can barely see, can barely hear....yet she's still allowed to drive her 1 tonne killing machine (albeit at 15mph everywhere with lots of clutch slip and just 'parking' where she likes) in a public area and past the village school every day...  Now compared to that I'm a long way off lol.

Thats why elderly drivers should be re assessed but thats a whole different argument. I bet though if you had the figures in front of you, there is a lot more younger drivers who dont pay attention as much as they should or dont have the required skill levels than there is poor elderly drivers.

 Not only that, but you've got terminally ill people still driving...my Grandad died walking through the front door...after a 20 minute drive from the supermarket!!  About a month ago another of my Nans friends was in a car crash...her husband was driving and died at the wheel!  Its all very well talking about basic skill, but anything can happen to anyone at any time to cause accidents.  The licence really only proves you're at a basic level for one day.  This is what I mean by diversity, if you remove every possible hazard from the road, there would be no-one left.

Now you really have missed the point
Every single action in life is a risk. Our entire lives are spent assessing them risks. Any single one of us could die without any warning behind the wheel but how many do? Sod all. And that is a risk that has been chosen. The world would not progress if risks were not taken.
Now, when you're behind the wheel, you should be assessing every risk all around you. Every situation that may turn into a hazard. Like i said earlier, a computer just can not do that as well as you but the risk isn't just outside the car. Because you are a more accurate method of staying inside a lane than an active lane guidance system, you should be concentrating on staying inside that lane rather than relying on this computer to do it for you which has more of a chance of error and therefore a higher risk.
Same again with auto lights. The computer isn't intelligent enough to see if foggy and therefore you should have your headlights on. To the computer, it over a certain lux level outside and therefore the criteria isn't met to turn the lights on. Again, raised risk level.
Active breaking assist. On paper, its a fantastic idea but in reality, not so much. You are relying on a radar to detect the vehicle in front. Again, this amazing computer of yours isn't as clever as a human. It wont always detect the car in front and by the time you have realised it hasn't picked it up, chances are its to late. If the driver was paying attention and seen the car in front suddenly brake rather than not paying attention and relying on this magical system, a crash could be avoided. Again, raised risk level.
I could go on for ages but i'm sure you see the point i'm trying to make. Give drivers these aids that are cleverly marketed as being amazing and perfect and they are brought into a false sense of security that the car will take over the risk assessing. To put it in an extreme yet potential way, you are putting your life in the hands of a computer which is no where near as intelligent as you. The only driver aid i would agree with 110% would be abs because its physically impossible for a human to modulate a brake pedal that quickly. I wouldn't really call it a driver aid though as it doesn't make a drivers life easier. You still do all the work and risk assessing, its just an improvement on an already essential but basic system which you control

[Mattcheese31]

Cba to read all this however, my fog lights are not for fog, I swapped them to driving lights so nerrrrr

Also on a more serious note, you are supposed to be aware of what speed you are doing without looking at the speedo, if you can't you need to improve your skills pronto x

[Toms306]

Computers may not be intelligent but they are MUCH better at humans by not getting affected by stuff!

Intelligence is pointless if you can't access it at the given moment. Like being given a laptop full of info without the password, completely useless in that instant, but useful a few days later when you've hacked it and the info that is no longer relevant. The brain is rubbish at allowing you to use that intelligence at the given moment, it would rather be worried, unhappy, upset about something entirely unrelated to the current situation. A computer will not be affected by emotions or any of that shit that's forced on humans, they work constantly - so yeah not as intelligent, but will better for the majority of the time.

I don't think people do use driver aids to stop thinking about driving? I certainly don't stick cruise on at 70 and think its ok to pick up the phone or bugger around swapping CD's or adjusting the sat nav.

[darrenjlobb]

This video, and this thread....

/THREAD good lord!

[WiNgNuTz]

This video, and this thread....

/THREAD good lord!

I quite agree mate, this has gone wild since I last read it yesterday! *stillneedashockedsmiley*

I still think the only safety device fitted in every car should be a nasty great big spike on the steering wheel.

/thread.

[Piggy]

Aye. No seatbelts, big spike on steering wheel and fuel tank hanging over front bumper.
Bet people would drive more carefully then!

[Iceman299]

Aye. No seatbelts, big spike on steering wheel and fuel tank hanging over front bumper.
Bet people would drive more carefully then!

Some people are beyond help and would probably still drive the same!

[Matt-Rallye]

CBA to read 3 pages of people whining about fog lights.

Mine are wired into my main beam and all front lights have uprated bulbs in. Because i like to see where the f*ck im going and also so people can see me coming from a fair while away and dip their lights well in advance.

Piggy your f*cking foglights are on in your signature and thats the middle of the day you douche!

[Piggy]

lets see who the douche is shall we matt...

1) They are not fog lights
2) your lazy
3) if you had read the thread you would have seen me explain (twice) that they are not fog lights

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[1616six]

To anyone else on the road though James they are fog lights.

I could put mine on and call them DRL's.

If they are round lights seperate to the headlight, fitted in the same place as fog lights are, 99.9% of people on the road will think they are fog lights - So you still look like one of these guys!



If I were to do a JJ0063's road rant, it would be a video of me expressing my absolute hatred of DRL's on cars that don't come with FF DRL's. They look shite. Often aren't wired up properly and look shite. They look shite too. Shite.

Your fog lights in your picture look like LED/HID fog lights to anyone else on the road. Police included. I can't think that if you got stopped by the Police with them on, they would believe if you said "Oh they are lower voltage than fog light bulbs so they are DRL's"  and I doubt they are going to do any further testing, they'll just issue the fine and tell you how to appeal.

[Matt-Rallye]

Piggy those are fog lights, i know its hard to see them properly from on top of your high horse but they are fog lights, im with JJ on this one 100%

Also theres a big difference between 'busy' and 'lazy' and im definitely not the latter!

[WiNgNuTz]

Aye. No seatbelts, big spike on steering wheel and fuel tank hanging over front bumper.
Bet people would drive more carefully then!

Some people are beyond help and would probably still drive the same!

Natural selection my friend....natural selection.

[Niall]

To anyone else on the road though James they are fog lights.

I could put mine on and call them DRL's.

If they are round lights seperate to the headlight, fitted in the same place as fog lights are, 99.9% of people on the road will think they are fog lights - So you still look like one of these guys!

If I were to do a JJ0063's road rant, it would be a video of me expressing my absolute hatred of DRL's on cars that don't come with FF DRL's. They look shite. Often aren't wired up properly and look shite. They look shite too. Shite.

Your fog lights in your picture look like LED/HID fog lights to anyone else on the road. Police included. I can't think that if you got stopped by the Police with them on, they would believe if you said "Oh they are lower voltage than fog light bulbs so they are DRL's"  and I doubt they are going to do any further testing, they'll just issue the fine and tell you how to appeal.

Agreed. I have DRLs on my car in the same lamp as the fog lamp and the amount of time i get "your fog lights are on" is pretty silly. "THEY ARENT FOG LIGHTS!!!!!!"

[Piggy]

Yeah so people need educating.

Fog lights only come on when your sidelights or sometimes dip beam are on.

My DRLs come on with ignition. Simples.

I dont like rallye blanks....so I was different. Deal with it.

Haterz gona hate coz jealous.

And Matt...what police!? We dont get police round here!

[1616six]

Yes but James regardless to that, you still look like you're driving round with your fogs on.

Not all fog lights only come on with other lights on, I've certainly had an old car where you could just have fogs on!

I can assure you I'm not jealous of your DRL's.

If I were PM I would ban twatflaps and aftermarket DRL's.

[Seb_Ryan]

Plus aint 99% of factory fitted drls in headlights? Not at bottom of the bumper? Minus ds3s which are at the edge of the bumper and vertical, oh and look nothing lile fog lights lol

[Niall]

DRLs were made compulsory because they are a "good idea" because people may struggle to see a car during the day time. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but is this not just creating a cure for a problem that shouldn't exist? I mean, i don't know if other people notice it but I've noticed really that people just don't seem to pay attention and look where they are going when crossing the road which really annoys me. Are people really that wrapped up in other things that they forget about their own preservation for their own life?
DRLs should not be needed!

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Plus aint 99% of factory fitted drls in headlights? Not at bottom of the bumper? Minus ds3s which are at the edge of the bumper and vertical, oh and look nothing lile fog lights lol

Mine are in the bumper. They have different regs for how they work if they are in the bumper instead of the headlights.

[RetroPug]

DRLs were made compulsory because they are a "good idea" because people may struggle to see a car during the day time. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but is this not just creating a cure for a problem that shouldn't exist? I mean, i don't know if other people notice it but I've noticed really that people just don't seem to pay attention and look where they are going when crossing the road which really annoys me. Are people really that wrapped up in other things that they forget about their own preservation for their own life?
DRLs should not be needed!

---

Plus aint 99% of factory fitted drls in headlights? Not at bottom of the bumper? Minus ds3s which are at the edge of the bumper and vertical, oh and look nothing lile fog lights lol

Mine are in the bumper. They have different regs for how they work if they are in the bumper instead of the headlights.

Cars being more visible can only be a good thing. Even when paying attention if everything is clearly visible it means that other cars are spotted more quickly. All sorts of environments and conditions can make cars harder to spot. On a sunny day a silver car driving past something light grey might be slightly camouflaged, but not if it has bright lights on it.

I'm fairly sure I've read several times that DRLs were introduced because statistically they reduce accident rates. Saying a problem shouldn't exist isn't a reason to mitigate its effects, especially when the effects of a problem can be fatal. That doesn't mean other things don't need to be done to prevent driver error, lack of attention and other examples of terrible driving.

Reducing the number of people that die in road traffic accidents by making cars more visible to other road users and pedestrians is not a bad thing.

[Niall]

You're right, less deaths the better. I suppose it was more of a rant at the fact people just seem to be getting more and more stupid these days and we just seem to live with it. Has anyone ever seen the film Idiocracy? Im pretty sure that is happening! lol

[Iceman299]

Haven't volvo been doing drl's for years? Their owners driving around in summer with headlights on always makes me laugh

[Piggy]

I agree on the lights thing. More visible etc.

I just did it coz I wanted to and didnt want rallye blanks.

Its all up to standards so meh

[RetroPug]

Haven't volvo been doing drl's for years? Their owners driving around in summer with headlights on always makes me laugh

I drive with my headlights on virtually all the time through choice. I want to be seen and avoided.

I've been hit head-on by someone not paying attention and it wrote off my pride and joy.

You're right, less deaths the better. I suppose it was more of a rant at the fact people just seem to be getting more and more stupid these days and we just seem to live with it. Has anyone ever seen the film Idiocracy? Im pretty sure that is happening! lol

People have always been stupid and are to be avoided at all costs.

[Piggy]

Oh also, fog lights should not be able to come on unless you have sidelights or dipped on. If they do, something is broke! Haha!
I drive with my lights on a lot still mind...mainly coz the dials are so dark in a 306 and out of habit from riding a bike with lights on to be seen!

[Iceman299]

Haven't volvo been doing drl's for years? Their owners driving around in summer with headlights on always makes me laugh

I drive with my headlights on virtually all the time through choice. I want to be seen and avoided.

I've been hit head-on by someone not paying attention and it wrote off my pride and joy.

Me too 90% of the time but not when it's clear skies and sunny lol

[adam b]

I've always driven with my headlights on at all times. Very very rarely need to use fog lights here.

Saying that I must actually make mine work!

[WiNgNuTz]

Something else that twists my tackle while driving at night is people who park facing oncoming traffic, then just leave their lights on while they wait for something or someone, thus blinding the oncoming traffic as they drive past.

[Piggy]

^^^^haha

I was only flashing at a taxi doing this tonight!

[Iceman299]

^^^^haha

I was only flashing at a taxi doing this tonight!

Don't get me started on bloody taxi drivers....!!