darrenjlobb's Rolling Road Chassis Dyno Project

[darrenjlobb]

Seen as though I haven't had any any interesting projects to blog on here in a while (other than a stupid, broken, pointless petrol!!) I thought I'd add another on going project of the last month or so of mine on here given some people may be interested in this sort of thing.

So as many know (but maybe alot of newbies dont) I spend most (if not all) of my time when im not farming, messing with cars, in particular tuning dervs. One of the biggest problems I have in general, when working on ANY car, is some form of benchmark / ability to monitor the small gains. Obviously when I get a car that im putting a big pump, or big turbo, or both, or even more extreme sometimes in my workshop, its night and day, obvious the difference you have made, but then all the small things, that make all the difference, get very hard to monitor. Constant "road runs" are required to get mixture / tuning / everything right, which is not only a total pain in the arse / waste of time, but frankly, not accurate at all, as we all know, the arse dyno only works on power + noise!

So a few months ago I embarked on constructing a rolling road, with the aim to be able to "load up" cars, in the workshop, and be able to tune, while monitoring exhaust / temps / output etc, without having to worry about driving, and without going anywhere. Buying a complete fully working Dyno, was obviously totally out the question, given the price these fetch. So the original ideal was to construct my own, the plan was to use an old leyland fluid flywheel:



I was planning to convert this to a water brake, by mounting bearings externalls / adding water in / out and welding a load arm etc to it.

However, while this was all going on, out of no where, a decommissioned (knackered) Dyno came up for sale in Oxford...an old Clayton unit, now i picked this up for near enough nothing, and initially, was planning on using it purely for the rollers, as my own homemade project had already come to the conclsion that the most major investment in the project was to be the rollers themself, given the need to be strong, balanced, and perfectly round, this was obviously something I would have had to have made up, and would be very expensive...So I was really only looking at this dyno for the rollers, anything else would be a bonus.

So spoke to matey, who sent me some photos of it where it used to be installed:
(ignore red lines, that was us figuring out how to get it home!)



After deciding that given the price, I simply couldnt ignore this, so spoke to Ruan, (lives that way) and decided best way was to rent a van, and drive the thing back to Cornwall....so thats what we did, well I say we, acaully Ruan did, so many thanks again to Ruan for taking the time to bring the thing home, as it would have been a real job for me to get up there and get it myself!

So after getting it home, set about stripping it down / figuring out what was good, and what was bad:

The roller frames:



One of the water brake retarders:



The epic retro electronic readout!:



So as you can see, what we have ended up with, is a twin brake rolling road, with analog readout, and even managed to score the water pump, and tank with the deal...remember at the time I was buying this purely for the rollers and / or frames!

Its a water brake unit (same as I planned, ideal for prolonged loading / ability to remove the heat), one brake per rollers, although have a link shaft to convert to single brake, but then its only able to read 250hp, but with both its 500hp, or 400whp as the oem readout system uses whp. Obviously the accuracy of this is likely out, and would need calibrating, but my eventual plan would be to convert the unit to computer data logging, and obviously new digital load cells, so really for now the readout side of it dosnt matter, that said, if it works, then great, as thats at least something to go by...

Obviously, the thing has issues, hence the sale, and as with all of these units, its always in the brakes that the problem lies, normally wear to the stator and rotor. So I started to tear into them, so see if they are shot, or if they may be repairable, as the way I saw it is at the end of the day, if we could re use those instead of building my own, things will be much simpler, worst case, they would get sacked off, link shaft fitted, and use the leyland unit as originally planned.

First step was to get the rotor housing off, and inspect the stator:



Here you can see me removing the rotor from the shaft, but already you can see the corrosion on the edge of the stator, this is the main problem with the units, as this metal wears away, the brake looses its braking effect, therefore massively reducing the hp load capability of the dyno.

However, to my suprise, unlike most of these units ive seen apart, the rotors were infact in very good condition, totally useable, and very little corrosion:



Less could be said about the stator though.....:



I decided at this point, that weather the brakes were fixable or not, the rest of the unit was exactly what I needed, so went ahead and totally stripped it down, so that I could get it shot blasted, and then I will re paint it, to try and tidy it up some what, as well as rebuild / repair the mechanical brakes to allow cars to load / unload the dyno.

All stripped down ready to shotblast:

[bashbarnard]

That's awesome. Wish I had the space for this. It makes sense if your always tuning for a rolling road to be at yours. Especially as you sound like you've got bargain.

[darrenjlobb]

After taking them away, I decided to see if welding the stators up would be an option, as I didnt have much to loose, and after doing so, decided that although not pretty, the repairs should be fine, and should hopefully last for some time to come yet...

Built up with weld (roughly at this point in time):



Also noticed the bearings were bad in one unit, and wanted to strip them right down to check the heat exchangers and mechanical seals that prevent water from reaching the bearings, so tore into the rest of the unit (took a while to figure how it all came apart, sadly damaged a housing in the process, but got there in the end):



Center shaft, as you can see, runs normal generic bearings, so no issues replacing them



Bare shaft:



Cleaned up center core:



I then discovered the reason for the bearing failure, the mechanical seals were totally shot in this brake. allowing water to get from the stator housing into the bearings, this, and the wear to the stator were obviously the reasons this thing was abandoned.

The dyno uses a ceramic mechanical seal to run against another ceramic face on the shaft to stop the water, the seal is as below:





Now for anyone that knows me, this seemingly small / simple mechanical seal, has been the vane of my life for the last couple weeks..I am un-able to source a replacement anywhere, seemingly due to the strange arragement of sprung part in the housing and a simple single ring as the stationary on the shaft collar itself...I have a few companies working on it, but as of yet, no real answers (if anyone has any ideas, please do get involved!)

But otherwise both brakes are stripped, cleaned up, stators welded, and ready to re assemble, bar these two seals....so thats really the hold up for the time being.

In the mean time i figured I would test out the water pump, which is three phase, and we are single phase only, so bought a VFD to allow me to run the 3 phase motor..

Wiring the motor for 240v delta 3 phase rather than star config:



Setup outside using bulk water storage tank, vfd and pump to circulate water for 15 minutes to ensure everything is ok



All seems well and seems the pump is working perfect.

Thats as far as things have progressed so far, but below is the first of a series of videos, and any ideas / help on the seals is most welcome.

Thanks for reading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxUN4Nks...e=youtu.be

[kernow_joe]

That's awesome Darren where the hell are you going to fit that?!

[Eeyore]

awesome stuff! Once this is done we can all move to your house and do RR meets every evening!

[306Dan]

Very nice Mr Lobb, very nice indeed, please keep the updates rolling as I'm quite interested in this.

[Choppin]

Another interesting project hope all goes well with it fella

[darrenjlobb]

That's awesome Darren where the hell are you going to fit that?!

That is an interesting question, and given the fact im yet to move the workshop anywhere bigger, its getting squeezed in front the pit for now, but I think its a good reason to really look into moving into a bigger shed!!

[WiNgNuTz]

Looks like an epic little project mate, shall watch this with great interest!

[bigcheez2k3]

Wow. This looks epic and very fun. Excellent project.

Have you tried RS Components? We use them at work and I believe they sell tons of different stuff so may have the seals.

[zx_volcane]

Can just imagine Ruan tootling down the motorway with a van full of dyno

Great project, lets hope you can sort some seals and get it going without too much fuss - sure there will be a que of xuds when you do

[darrenjlobb]

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vujK2p4gcK4

[darrenjlobb]

Wow. This looks epic and very fun. Excellent project.

Have you tried RS Components? We use them at work and I believe they sell tons of different stuff so may have the seals.

I have tried just about every seal company in the UK, and started branching out now, the only company that makes on similer dosnt do it in the sizes I need, so its looking like a custom job..that in itself is causing issues, was hoping I could retro fit a more modern unit, but struggling with clearance for the spring on the shaft due to the stator housing / shaft clearance .....

I'm working on an idea though!

[Piggy]

Great work fella...great to see some pics and progress

[londondan86]

Top job pal!! I know where I'll be bringing the beast for some fine tuning at some point. It only seems right that the first dyno it screams on is yours!
As for the seal/bearing who was the original manufacturer of the kit originally?

[cully]

is the seal part of the brake unit is the manafacturers name Clayton Mark?


http://www.eriks.co.uk/Pump-Specific-Seals/2054
http://catalog.springerpumps.com/viewite...eplacement

[Poodle]

Glad to see you're putting a project thread up for this too, will be watching with interest.

[darrenjlobb]

is the seal part of the brake unit is the manafacturers name Clayton Mark?


http://www.eriks.co.uk/Pump-Specific-Seals/2054
http://catalog.springerpumps.com/viewite...eplacement

Paul, the seals are marked "calvenar seal co. California" but think this company is long gone, or at least in its original form anyway. It sits in the brake to seal the berarings from the stator housing....the thing thats awkward is that the spring loaded side is stationary, rather than on the shaft, I have found a few companies who make this style of seal, but none in big enough sizes (2 inch collar and 2 & 3/4" housing.)

ERIKS is the company that has the seal at the moment trying to source something, but not having any joy at the moment sadly.

I'm sure something will come up, but taking time!

[silverzx]

So this is what the seals for..

[procta]

Darren you cannot on run that on veg or give it a stage 1, but known you, you will have a go

[darrenjlobb]

Darren you cannot on run that on veg or give it a stage 1, but known you, you will have a go

Haha i never run anything on veg! Infact im a firm hater of the stuff But then thats because im the man who is constantly stripping pumps / dealing with the damage it does!

[ADV_93]

This is epic!

[lolsteve]

Haha i never run anything on veg! Infact im a firm hater of the stuff But then thats because im the man who is constantly stripping pumps / dealing with the damage it does!

And just like that everyone will stop using veg

Interesting project though, makes sense to do it as not very practical to keep going to dyno places when doing minor tweaks

[darrenjlobb]

Part 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgZQp1ce...e=youtu.be

[pugdan95]

try FPE seals in doncaster they manufacturer seals and always come up thumps even when were replacing seals on discontinued hydraulic equipment defiantly worth a shot

[darrenjlobb]

Just as an update to this, not much progress due to having huge issues trying to source mech seals for the brakes, have searched the world with no results now

If anyone has any contacts in the industry / gear to custom make please let me know, any help would be usefull here. Have found a few places that can grind new ceramic faces for the old seals, but problem being I am missing one of the seals totally...So currently still on the hunt for seals or another complete brake unit to use for parts / seal to have rebuilt with new faces...

So if anyone knows of an old clayton no matter how shagged kicking about, please get in touch!

[Toms306]

That's pretty interesting tbh! Never realised they worked like a car torque converter, always assumed there was something much more complicated going on lol!

The one we had at college was 'rescued' as well. It was flood damaged so was donated free to the college and the tech's managed to get it up and running again.

Bit of a bugger about the seals but I'm sure you'll find some eventually, cant believe there aren't any anywhere lol!

[toseland]

Just as an update to this, not much progress due to having huge issues trying to source mech seals for the brakes, have searched the world with no results now

If anyone has any contacts in the industry / gear to custom make please let me know, any help would be usefull here. Have found a few places that can grind new ceramic faces for the old seals, but problem being I am missing one of the seals totally...So currently still on the hunt for seals or another complete brake unit to use for parts / seal to have rebuilt with new faces...

So if anyone knows of an old clayton no matter how shagged kicking about, please get in touch!

i know it might be a lot more pennies...

but cant you get the entire unit custom machined? (to take metric/close as available seals etc) surely it wouldnt be too much hassle for a half equiped engineering shop to do this..

also, let me be the first to say "I DONATE MY CAR TO RR ON YOUR DYNO" lol,

[Dum-Dum]

On your seal dilemma have you considered marine propellor shaft seals?


Or are these any good (various sizes on ebay)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MB2-53-Ceramic...2c792455ba

[darrenjlobb]

Just as an update to this, not much progress due to having huge issues trying to source mech seals for the brakes, have searched the world with no results now

If anyone has any contacts in the industry / gear to custom make please let me know, any help would be usefull here. Have found a few places that can grind new ceramic faces for the old seals, but problem being I am missing one of the seals totally...So currently still on the hunt for seals or another complete brake unit to use for parts / seal to have rebuilt with new faces...

So if anyone knows of an old clayton no matter how shagged kicking about, please get in touch!

i know it might be a lot more pennies...

but cant you get the entire unit custom machined? (to take metric/close as available seals etc) surely it wouldnt be too much hassle for a half equiped engineering shop to do this..

also, let me be the first to say "I DONATE MY CAR TO RR ON YOUR DYNO" lol,

Its not so much the sizes that are the problem sadly, I could fairly easily make adaptors / spacers etc to make it metric, the problem is the design of the seal / its super short working length. Most modern seals seem to put the spring loaded part on the shaft, and the stationary in the housing, but this is reverse, and prooving impossible to source / replace sadly. Plan B is very much required, just not sure what plan B is yet ill figure something eventually!

On your seal dilemma have you considered marine propellor shaft seals?


Or are these any good (various sizes on ebay)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MB2-53-Ceramic...2c792455ba

Chris, I have spoken to a few marine places but nothing they use is like this sadly..and that link is the wrong type im afraid I have searched the UK dry in this market!