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Not your normal bosch pump thread
#1
Ok.. so i have the bosch pump now all nicely plumbed in and looking SEEEEEXY..


[Image: edit3.png]

First.. whats the metal thing with the steel pipe running into it and 1 wire, running to it.. advance?


secondly,. i have 2 plugs remaining from the lucas unit, 3 pin and 4 pin

the first has 4 wires (pic below).. Grey, brown and black are all in use (correspond to the 3 wires going into the stop soloniod on the lucas unit) and the black is seemingly redundent (a blank connection to nothing in the "socket" )

the second i assume is the original "advance" plug seems to have 3 wires (would like to know which to wire into the advance plug on the pump itself and possibly what the others do. (this has orange, black, white wires in that order, will check which is 1-2-3 later)

I should point out that my aim is to keep the immobiliser in place as the vehicle is a little more rare than a 306 and a lot get nicked.
Given the choice between Niall and the sheep. I would choose the sheep!
/Toseland
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#2
So you've changed from a Lucas to a Bosch? Looks to me like you've got one of the later style ECU controlled bosch pumps.

The advance for that doesn't work the same way as the Lucas one, so you'll have static pump timing. (I'm informed these pumps don't have mechanical backup advances on them)

Anyways, if someone really wants your car, an immobiliser won't stop them Smile I've no idea how the immobiliser works, is it part of the stop solenoid body? if it is then it won't match the car so it'll never work.
A moments silence please, for our brothers in the NAD-zone.
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#3
no, keypad in the cabin activates the stop solonoid via code.. which pushes a live down to the stop solonoid.. and opens it up..
Given the choice between Niall and the sheep. I would choose the sheep!
/Toseland
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#4
If they know how to hot wire they know how to run a live to the stop solenoid
On a break from 306oc for personal reasons. If anyone needs or wants me most of you have my number and or facebook messenger
Thanks for the good times guys n gals. I might be back. Who knows.
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#5
(19-07-2014, 06:15 AM)bashbarnard Wrote: If they know how to hot wire they know how to run a live to the stop solenoid

This, it's probably better you spending time and effort making the bonnet really hard to open Big Grin
Welding and fabrication projects undertaken, contact me for more information.

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#6
Pump is fine, you need to remove the circuitry behind the Lucas pump that was on the car, hook into into the black plug, find which of the 2/3 wires into the Lucas solenoid goes live and then connect yo your solenoid ....and then find a Bosch immob shroud
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#7
yeah i will do that, (was one of my thoughts)..



on the solonoid now, which of the 2 wires are live/neutral so i can switch it for the time being?

(19-07-2014, 06:28 AM)darrenjlobb Wrote: Pump is fine, you need to remove the circuitry behind the Lucas pump that was on the car, hook into into the black plug, find which of the 2/3 wires into the Lucas solenoid goes live and then connect yo your solenoid ....and then find a Bosch immob shroud



not too worried about the schroud

the car is stealable for the bits, if they really wanted it they would tow it off, however the same guys who tow it are more a hammer and screwdriver into the ignition switch kind of lot.
Given the choice between Niall and the sheep. I would choose the sheep!
/Toseland
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#8
(18-07-2014, 10:06 PM)toseland Wrote: [Image: edit3.png]

First.. whats the metal thing with the steel pipe running into it and 1 wire, running to it.. advance?

Replies said it wasn't advance but what is it for ?
Some bosch's have it and some dont.

Mine does, so Im curious what it does ?

From one of the VE guides I read this which seems like it matches, but then why present on some pumps but not others? :

Remove the high pressure fuel line that connects the bottom of the pump to the top.

Why would such a line be electrically controlled if it's not a ECU pump ?
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#9
IIRC its got something to do with the internal pump pressure which affects the advance of the pump.

I cant remember exactly how it works, but, when you are criusing it drops the IPP (less advance) and when you put your foot down the IPP jumps up (more advance). Instead of IPP rising with engine speed

i tried tuning the pump with and without the solenoid connected and alway found it went better with and solenoid NOT connected (that was on a 10mm pump)
306 XUD9 gt2052s
306 hdi stage 2 (hdi tuning)
205 STDT -new project
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#10
The small pipe is connected to the govnor, which basically allows the pump to advance based on the throttle position. The one without it (with just the silver cap) has a linear advance based on pump rpm so does not take into account throttle position.

I think the solenoid is just there to stop the govnor affecting the advance during cold starting as it can back off the advance when no throttle there so can be hard to start without it (though in reality makes no difference) - I *think* this is what the electronic valve is for but 100% on this.
[Image: 22f2b6b2-758b-4c1c-96fb-6fa9c6059b13_zpsf306b56b.jpg]
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#11
so similar to the advance on the lucas unit then, it "manually" bypasses /changes the advance using that solonoid when cold.. makes sense, the live switched wire to it was only live for a little while, then it turned off, presumably when the engine got up to temperature.
Given the choice between Niall and the sheep. I would choose the sheep!
/Toseland
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#12
Thanks for the info folks Smile
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#13
For the immobiliser why don't you wire up a switch on the ignition live and hide it behind the dash somewhere. That's what I've done on my 205
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#14
Just back into this, if it's controlled by throttle position that implies that the accelerator pedal has a switch on it ?
Is it a certain percentage of throttle that it comes on with ?
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#15
Here is an explanation of the cold start-
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#16
ours don't have a cam'd lever on the rear of the advance piston - but iirc the cold start solenoid has a similar affect

ie it adds a bit of advance at the low end of the rev range - or as dave said in effect stopping the gov cutting out the advance when there is zero throttle

(13-01-2015, 03:10 PM)nominous Wrote: Just back into this, if it's controlled by throttle position that implies that the accelerator pedal has a switch on it ?
Is it a certain percentage of throttle that it comes on with ?

only controlled by the throttle position in terms of moving the throttle will move the gov / levers / bit inside the pump that affect advance ..etc
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#17
So now we are saying it's not for throttle position advance.
Essentially "tip in" for when you mash the throttle.

Along with being for cold starting...

Some threads say it is, some say it isn't.
I note that in your project thread you started out with a pump that had this then changed to one which didn't (available pumps probably).

I'll trace the wire back and see where it goes to then.
haynes bible on the way. £2.50 delivered from ebay, plenty more. bargain.

EDIT:

This is an interesting thread, stick with it, enjoy pg2:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/t...IbiIOZPzFQ

For the VW's then with this solenoid, they note it's active when cold, but also active above 2800rpm, driven by the dash.
Wishing I'd stuck a lamp on the damn thing when I had the engine in the car.

Oh and this one too:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/t...KXg4mySFuw

Oh and really this one ref the K & KF settings:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/...27.30.html
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