P2030 after some views (yes another)

[mspdan]

Hi,

before you say i know we get loads of these but after someone to bounce some ideas off.

im after some views on a 306 HDI that i have purchased off a mate today..

it cuts out at 3k in 3rd when under load and is a complete bitch to start from cold it just cranks until eventually she decides to go, its the same when warm but easier to start..

i have changed the fpr for a known good one and this has made no difference, when the old one came out it did not have many filings etc on the end.

the lift pump whines a bit but it has power and fuel is getting to the hp.

i have cracked the first injector off and it gets fuel on turn over

however when running it has two tappy injectors 2 and 3

im after some advice on what it could be really, i have a spare hp pump that is know to be good and set of injectors..

would you go for a leak off test next or change the hp?

i was thinking it could be either but surely if the hp was gone the fpr would have filing etc on?

this said i have checked the fuel and it has 100% been running on heating oil / kerosene, so stands to reason the hp is fubbard?

the fuel filter housing is not full of gold flakes either, but worth changing the lift pump anyway?

thanks for any advice guys

[Poodle]

Guarantee the hp pump is knackered from the kerosene, injectors and lift pump are probably a good idea too. Once that's done you'll have a nice base to modify. In fact, the uprated lift pumps are no more expensive than the oem ones, since you've got to buy one anyway...

[mspdan]

Guarantee the hp pump is knackered from the kerosene, injectors and lift pump are probably a good idea too. Once that's done you'll have a nice base to modify. In fact, the uprated lift pumps are no more expensive than the oem ones, since you've got to buy one anyway...

what i was thinking, believe the kerosene hasnt done it any favours, would you just replace the lot or start with one thing?

im thinking change the hp first, which will be a learning curve but sure there will be a guide somewhere...

im unsure whether to keep this or my diablo yet as its a more door.

thanks

[Poodle]

I'd start with the hp pump, as the seals in that will have probably suffered the worst, then lift pump.

[mspdan]

I'd start with the hp pump, as the seals in that will have probably suffered the worst, then lift pump.

my thoughts exactly mate and while i am there might aswell do cambelt, waterpump and pulleys, be rude not too..

never done cambelt but it cant be that hard

[mspdan]

bit update on this,

its now draining a full battery and just cranking, it does sometimes seem like it is picking up the balls to start but coughs and wont go.. (if that makes sense)

wondering if any other sensors people recommend swapping before i research how to change the hp as i have never done it, or any helps or tips from someone?

or try a leak off?

after an opinion really what to start with

many thanks guys

thanks

[Poodle]

What have you tested and changed so far? Have you managed to get it on diahnostics yet?

[Uberderv]

Have you changed the HP pump? The entire fuel system relies on diesel for lubrication/cooling especially the HP pump and injectors. The tolerances are very fine so using poor quality fuel will have likley fooked them a treat.

Do you know anyone close with Peugeot Planet?

[mspdan]

What have you tested and changed so far? Have you managed to get it on diahnostics yet?

yes mate first thing i did comes up with p2030 primary circuit

right i changed the lift pump for a known good one today and just for good measure cleaned the filter out in it (which was almost clean anyway)

checked the fuel system for leaks as it does sound like its hunting slightly like air is getting it.

i cracked the injectors off and checked they were all getting fuel.

i have also took the fpr out and it was clean but replaced this for a known good one for good measures.

changed fuel filter and checked housing and it had no flakes in.

didnt get alot of time to look today as i had to repair a t5 so only got hour or so this evening.

so where we stand is, it starts better with what has been done, more likely the white diesel in it, however it still takes ages to turnover before it runs.

the longer you turn it over the more it wants to start and coughs, like a pressure problem possibly (will get video as easier than explaining)

a small spray off easy start and it will go easily if that helps

what i have noticed is the injectors are tapping slightly, but kerosene burns higher im sure so wondering if it could have damaged them and have one or more are on the way out??

two also have leaky washers but i havent seen many hdi's that dont have this issue.

thinking do a leak off test next and see if that helps?

also check readings at fps on rail and change this?

any thoughts welcome

thanks

[Uberderv]

Any way you can check rail pressure when cranking? A leak off test might be useful too.

[mspdan]

Any way you can check rail pressure when cranking? A leak off test might be useful too.

i presume i just need to use a multimeter on the plug when cranking?

got that too look into today and im also going to run a leakoff test

going to have inlet elbow off today aswell as it it black and very gunky so thinking it could ppossibly be blocked (just anoher avenue but doubtful its this)

thanks

[welshpug]

get proper diagnostic kit on it, PP200 or something like that, that'll tell you what the pressures should be and what the pressures are.

[mspdan]

get proper diagnostic kit on it, PP200 or something like that, that'll tell you what the pressures should be and what the pressures are.

i would but there is no one local i know with it mate and tbh if i work through methodically ill figure it out, never caused any issues before..

i will have buy it if i get stumped but still plenty left check yet

injectors, hp pump, sensors, wiring are stil on the cards

[Poodle]

The sensor works on a 0-1500bar = 0-5V scale, you need about 240bar to fire iirc. Always thought it was 280bar, but Cully found something that said otherwise, just can't remember exactly what... Should be showing 0.8-1v from the sensor anyway, got a feeling it's an oscillating signal, if so will need the hf band to register it.

[HDi--Power]

Change the Hp pump, its seems its the issue here and it will need changing anyway if they was kerosene going through it

[Ruan]

TBF I wouldn't do anything until you know the entire system is cleaned of unknown fluids... It's probably started to wreck the HP pump and has probably sent bits of the pump into the injectors blah de blah - take it ALL apart and clean, you'll be in for never ending issues if you don't... It's not worth buying a new HP pump and then ramming diesel filled with swarf and kerosene through it, you'll just wreck more and more parts.

They're quite picky these fuel systems, so be meticulous when working on it.

[my-first-306]

my 306 had the exact same problem when I bought it, injector swap and its good as new

[mspdan]

The sensor works on a 0-1500bar = 0-5V scale, you need about 240bar to fire iirc. Always thought it was 280bar, but Cully found something that said otherwise, just can't remember exactly what... Should be showing 0.8-1v from the sensor anyway, got a feeling it's an oscillating signal, if so will need the hf band to register it.

Right i have done a leak off test, results are in photo below hope it is clear enough. the car was left running for 45 minutes.

I cant see it being an injector even though they tap surely causing poor starting?

Next text is fuel rail sensor and change it for good measures see if that helps although doubtful.

So im guessing its the hp pump which i thought initally, just to figure out how to change it know (any tips welcome)

Is it a floating pump so to speak and i dont have to time it with the crank or camshaft, or does it need to be timed in too (sorry if sounds daft)

thanks for all help so far

[Poodle]

Those look pretty uneven, what were the measurements? Should be ~8mm a minute per injector iirc.

HP pump is dead easy: lock off the timing, remove pump, fit new pump, re-time, job done. They don't need to be timed to the engine.

[mspdan]

Those look pretty uneven, what were the measurements? Should be ~8mm a minute per injector iirc.

HP pump is dead easy: lock off the timing, remove pump, fit new pump, re-time, job done. They don't need to be timed to the engine.

ah didnt think to measure them mate :/

lock it off with a socket on crank to floor (if makes sense) and then just undo pump bolts and then refit?

obviously turn the engine over by hand a couple times check its all okay first...

right so the injectors look knackered then?

today i have changed the relay, fpr and fps and it know strikes straight up, however after about 3 seconds it will just cut out like its starved of fuel?

what is bugging me is the lift pump doesnt always come on when the iginition is on.

i am completely baffled it starts easily know but wont stay running so thinking swapping parts back get it to run but take ages to start?

really at a loss from what i have done im thinking, change the lift pump for another, change injectors and hp pump...

what would you suggest buddy as it has me stumped and isnt adding up..

thanks

[Poodle]

No, lock off the timing properly.

The leak-off test produced uneven results, that's not a guarantee the injectors are dead, but it's a good indication.

You really need to get it on proper live diagnostics and find out wjat's causing it to cut out.

Tbf cutting out is typically just a variation on a theme, can be caused by the same issues that cause non-starting, don't be put off by that.

One thing that has occurred to me: have you changed the fuel filter yet?

---

Oh, when you say the lift pump doesn't always run with the ignition on, what do you mean exactly?

[HDi--Power]

The injector results look pretty decent to me, only a small variation between each one? I have seen them running ok with one injector three or four times the leak off of the others, it was buggered but not enough to cause major issues

[Poodle]

Its pretty hard to tell from the pic tbh, but the third bottle looks like it has about a quarter less in it than the fourth, for example. Tbf i'm just going on the tolerances I was given by the local diesel specialist, 6.5-10ml per minute, thought they looked outside of that. How big are the bottles?

[mspdan]

Its pretty hard to tell from the pic tbh, but the third bottle looks like it has about a quarter less in it than the fourth, for example. Tbf i'm just going on the tolerances I was given by the local diesel specialist, 6.5-10ml per minute, thought they looked outside of that. How big are the bottles?

sorry for the poor photo, thats my crappy phone camera for you..

The bottles were 2 litre ones with the top cut off, if that helps, as to the bottle you refer to it is unclear but it was not much different to the rest just looks it in the photo.

I have changed the fuel filter yes, it has me completely stumped as to what is up, thinking of backtracking my steps and see variable changes starting.

The lift pump doesnt always turn on with the ignition every so often, also when the car starts it whines but then startes whinning louder and the car cuts out, i have changed it for two known good ones and it still does it.

The other thing to note, just been out to it to see if it wants to play ball and i have just had smoke come out of the dash, like its burnt something out, any ideas on that one as yet to take it to bits :/

car is getting beyond a joke, fix one problem and another three occur, rate its going it will be a breaking thread..

thanks for all the help thus far

[Poodle]

Not at all mate, it's usually pretty hard to make measurements by eye from any picture lol.

Fair enough, just my eyes then lol.

Ah yeah, you did say further up, sorry i missed that before.

That almost sounds like something is blocking up the fuel line. Try disconnecting them and blowing them out from the engine bay end with an air line. Alternatively, could be down to power supply and regulation, ie the infamous brown relay.

Smoke from the dash..? From whereabouts, that doesn't sound good..?

[HDi--Power]

Smoke from the dash will be the indicator stalk, they short out and get very very hot and start melting the plastic they are cased in

[Toms306]

Which area of the dash? The lift pump wiring runs through there....

[mspdan]

Not at all mate, it's usually pretty hard to make measurements by eye from any picture lol.

Fair enough, just my eyes then lol.

Ah yeah, you did say further up, sorry i missed that before.

That almost sounds like something is blocking up the fuel line. Try disconnecting them and blowing them out from the engine bay end with an air line. Alternatively, could be down to power supply and regulation, ie the infamous brown relay.

Smoke from the dash..? From whereabouts, that doesn't sound good..?

Yeah it is okay mate

The smoke from dash turned out that the earth on gearbox was dodgy, it was hanging on by a thread and very loose, so sorted that with new connector.

We also have no more cutting out, it runs

Yet to drive it but will hopefully be okay, it doesnt cut out anymore shortly after you start it..

I changed the fuel filter and fpr again for another one and more importantly had a brain wave, i took the camshaft sensor out yesterday and noticed it wasnt sat quite in. This being said i removed it, cleaned it and also checked the wiring and rewrapped it and then it struck up and stayed running..

I dont know if that was the fault or a dodgy wire i disturbed when moving it but it hasnt cut out since and starts better than mine know, literally flick the key and its running..

So thanks for all help guys and i have managed to figure another one out without pp

After this got loads done to it i wasnt prepared to do without getting it to run right first, so next on my list is a damn bonnet the same colour as the car

[Poodle]

Great to hear, glad you got it sorted.