Social Experiment - Violinist

[ginge191]

[Connor]

this is a spam free thread. :!:

[Dan!]

I also find this sort of thing quite interesting, sociology/psychology etc. and im not sure what so say about the experiment really, but it is amazing how people are/can be.

[Mattcheese31]

i think £32.17 in 45minutes is damn good going for busking . . . . . i should know i used to do it when i was a student .

[ginge191]

I also find this sort of thing quite interesting, sociology/psychology etc. and im not sure what so say about the experiment really, but it is amazing how people are/can be.

i studied knowledge and taste for a fair while and it interlinks to a lot - class, identity....and inevitably society.

the question is to all the 'haters' who say class still exists, is to why no one notices the most valuable taste of the upper class.

lol and matt, the point is that the concert to what people understand to be "good taste" is fine to be paid for when in that environment but not when it's in the form of busking.

[Mattcheese31]

i studied knowledge and taste for a fair while and it interlinks to a lot - class, identity....and inevitably society.

the question is to all the 'haters' who say class still exists, is to why no one notices the most valuable taste of the upper class.

lol and matt, the point is that the concert to what people understand to be "good taste" is fine to be paid for when in that environment but not when it's in the form of busking.

no Ginge, i think you're missing the point mate, have you ever read the biblical proverb "The widows mite"? . . . . . .basically regardless of whether you think there's a class issue, there may be and may be not, i am working class as they come but was brought up with a good appreciation of classical music, and £32. 17 in 45 minutes from working class people is relatively a lot of money, therefore your argument is pretty meaningless in my view . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . i would say though in fairness musical styles do tend to relate to certain classes of society more than others . . . . .

[Rippthrough]

If I'm going somewhere, it's generally because I want to get there, not 'cause I want to listen to some jumped up musician bitch about not getting money for busking.

[Jonny b]

Thing Is how many of the people in that mall actually listen to classical music let alone pay to go and see it, you dont hear many council houses blasting Bach out at 2 in the morning do you same as if you put a steel band busking outside said venue he played the night before, I'll bet they get feck all probably even moved on by security

[Moonstone2.0]

I find this pointless...all it means is that we dont have time for people people busking and that people dont know much about classical music...regardless of how good they are. I saw a street drummer in newyork who was probably better that the ones in the top bands but just because he wasnt in the music industry being great...no one cared. If that had been the drummer from iron maiden in new york there would have been a stampede. Cause i'm sorry but who is Joshua Bell? Never heard of him, and if he was playing in Glasgow I wouldn't stop either because I dont go out to the shops to listen to music.

For example, do the same experiment with say Adele. If she were to stand in london and do a set on the street, the press would be on her live a hive of bees and crowds would come running in. If she had a hat in front of her for tips. I bet no one would give her a penny. Cause it would be seen as a free concert.

I dont know where I'm going with this..but im not surprised at the above.

[ginge191]

appreciate the input matt, on topic as well!

I understand where you're coming from but im merely playing devils advocate - im strong in understanding that class is meaningless. i argue that without being able to define class in the first place, how you can you categorise anyone.

does income define class? parental background? education? if so, what class would a 'commoner' from liverpool such as wayne rooney classify as? not the best of education, or 'well spoken' in general but still has a lot of money.

As for the money, $20 of that was from one inidivudal who recognised him from the previous night - whether this influences anyhting.

Matt, the experiement is away from the money received, it more focussess on the meaning of tastes.

As for the money: The US national wage is $50,233.00
in relation to a daily wage, thats an average of $137.37

again, in relation to the amount of people passing by and those who donated, thats $2.1 for the 26 who donated, excluding the one off member who donate $20.

thats 1.5% of their daily wage - is that reallly a lot for one person to spend when they're no doubtedly about to spend £30 on a jumper.

Away from the money, point proven, the experiment was merely looking into whether people appreciate and recognise real talents.

[ginge191]

I find this pointless...

you just justified why it is NOT pointless, how stars hyped in the media are made out to be 'better' than those naturals on the street.

as for the type of music, the violin is an instrument which is an aquired taste, i can't see the point either, but those with the tastes and 'knowledge' of the upper classes should recognise it. despite being in an upper class, people strive to be upper class; earn more money, educate themselves and so on...

if we didn't want to move up the social class pyramid, we wouldn't bother working, learning, spending, earning...

[Moonstone2.0]

I find this pointless...

you just justified why it is NOT pointless, how stars hyped in the media are made out to be 'better' than those naturals on the street.

as for the type of music, the violin is an instrument which is an aquired taste, i can't see the point either, but those with the tastes and 'knowledge' of the upper classes should recognise it. despite being in an upper class, people strive to be upper class; earn more money, educate themselves and so on...

if we didn't want to move up the social class pyramid, we wouldn't bother working, learning, spending, earning...

Lol..I did indeed contradict myself....and now I cant stop thinking about it....grrrrr damn you.....

[ginge191]

Lol..I did indeed contradict myself....and now I cant stop thinking about it....grrrrr damn you.....

sorry

[Jonny b]

See Iam working class never grew up with classical music, don't matter how much money I earn I would never go to see a violinist, I can appreciate the art as with all skills just not my cup of tea would rather be sweating it out at a festival

[Connor]

Mindfuck! hock:

[ginge191]

[Jonny b]

That's better than a lot!! Still not quite me ha ha as I said I can appreciate it just it's not programmed into me to like it, your violinist grew up with it yet I'll bet if he grew up in my house as a kid his tastes would be different

[ginge191]

That's better than a lot!! Still not quite me ha ha as I said I can appreciate it just it's not programmed into me to like it, your violinist grew up with it yet I'll bet if he grew up in my house as a kid his tastes would be different

i grew up with my mum listening to more classical music yet i like dirty bass....

i think parental influence is irrelevant

[Ed Doe]

I'm intruged Ginge.

In regard to the violinist...

I'm not sure what it's trying to prove. It can't be a quantitative study in class boundaries in terms of musical preference, as both the concert audience and the passers-by are uncontrolled study groups. It does not prove that classical violin is the preserve of the upper-class, as we do not know what the concert audience consisted of.

It cannot be a quantitative study in class boundaries in financial terms as if you are passionate about classical violin, and can afford it then you will pay the $100 to watch the concert. If you walk past someone busking and aren't bothered then you wont put money in his hat.
Ripps point also rings true, irrespective of the person playing the music, if I'm in a rush, I'm not going to stop. Besides, the acoustics would be sh*t in an environment like that...

So explain to me what this is trying to say?

[ginge191]

I'm intruged Ginge.

In regard to the violinist...

I'm not sure what it's trying to prove. It can't be a quantitative study in class boundaries in terms of musical preference, as both the concert audience and the passers-by are uncontrolled study groups. It does not prove that classical violin is the preserve of the upper-class, as we do not know what the concert audience consisted of.

It cannot be a quantitative study in class boundaries in financial terms as if you are passionate about classical violin, and can afford it then you will pay the $100 to watch the concert. If you walk past someone busking and aren't bothered then you wont put money in his hat.
Ripps point also rings true, irrespective of the person playing the music, if I'm in a rush, I'm not going to stop. Besides, the acoustics would be sh*t in an environment like that...

So explain to me what this is trying to say?

just on your first point, theres a number of studies gone into class and class preferences; one piece for example from korea describes how tastes differ between middle and upper classes, using the piano and violin as examples.
as for the audience itself, there's no way of gauging their 'class', but as mentioned, the taste of violin and classical music is undoubtedly a taste of the upper classes, again, thats another debate all together, one of which i disagree with.

In terms as a formative soical study, the fact it was a type of covert study, there is faults round every corner, it could be a stunt for all we know. the experiment was taken out by washington DC press; not renound for its social studies.

Im not saying this experiment is a valid, reliable or even a representative experiment but the issues as i mentioned previously are interesting to consider at least. How a proffessional violinist can perform publically and not be reocgnised, as apposed to an alternative musicin proffesional, such as adele, would be instantly recognised. The idea of common tastes and appreciation is all this study proves.

As for the 'rush' idea, those in a shopping mall often are not in a rush, most are around for retail therapy, thereapy which takes hours at a time. I dont know anyone who watches for hours when someone performs UNLESS it is in the interest of public discourse - for example, beat boxing or street dancing; youtube videos will show this.

ed, thanks for the input

[MrsMoonstone]

Ginge, off topic and yet bang on: Have you read "Watching the English"? Author's name escapes me atm but it's a brilliant piece of sociological research written up in a highly entertaining way. Class, taste, how the working and upper class are much closer together than one might expect, why ppl apologise when they get bumped into - it's all in there, highly recommended it!

[ginge191]

Ginge, off topic and yet bang on: Have you read "Watching the English"? Author's name escapes me atm but it's a brilliant piece of sociological research written up in a highly entertaining way. Class, taste, how the working and upper class are much closer together than one might expect, why ppl apologise when they get bumped into - it's all in there, highly recommended it!

i have, yep, read that a few years back - and in fact is a basis for my 10k word dissertation very interesting indeed!

[Toms306]

I agree with Ripp in that I can't stand people playing music in town/shopping centre.

And I'd also say parental influence isn't irrelevant, BUT, only applies to some people.

[MrsMoonstone]

i have, yep, read that a few years back - and in fact is a basis for my 10k word dissertation very interesting indeed!

What's the diss on? Violinists?

[ginge191]

What's the diss on? Violinists?

lol no, im in the beginning stages but its looking into a way a individual is shaped by the peers around them. in specific, the way people behave in the environment of the public house; the drinks they drink and the reasons why this is.

theres a piece of work done by Emile Durkheim, called the Collective Consciousness - heard of it?
but explains how individuals are shaped by the society around them.

a lot more in depth using a lot more studies, but thats the basics.

[MrsMoonstone]

Interesting stuff! Only touched on Sociology in my Psych degrees and decided it was too fuzzy for to to pursue as a career but it's a great interest of mine! Good luck with the studying!

[Jonny b]

I never said parental influence just a mixture of who and what was going on in my household when growing up , I grew up around a lot of west Indian people, at the age of 3/4 was listening to reagge soca dancehall, now that had nowt to with parents ha ha

[Toms306]

10k words.....ten thousand words!? How the hell can you find that many!? :o

[ginge191]

10k words.....ten thousand words!? How the hell can you find that many!? :o

im not quite sure yet :|

[Ed Doe]

I never said parental influence just a mixture of who and what was going on in my household when growing up , I grew up around a lot of west Indian people, at the age of 3/4 was listening to reagge soca dancehall, now that had nowt to with parents ha ha

West Indian you say... whereabouts did you grow up? I was born in Tortola B.V.I Belonger ftw