1.8 Petrol vs 1.9 D turbo...

[aaronshort]

Imagine these two cars are the same price, mileage, condition, location etc...
The insurance for the petrol is £30 more, tax is £55more aswell i think
Will be doing about 12,000 miles a year, a few will be long distance 200miles+
petrol has 22 more hp from standard and is 50kg lighter but has 50nm less torque and does 10 less mpg
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-PEUGEOT-3...41796b2e53
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261291958083?s...1423.l2649
Which would you rather have?

And has anyone driven the 1.6 and d turbo, on paper the 1.6 is supposed to be quicker, i doubt that...

[Seb_Ryan]

Xud, stage 1 and itll be same power and even better on fuel

[Piggy]

1.9xud turbo all the way.

stage1 tune and it will be better by far than the 1.8 if not the 2.0xsi as well.

dont forget on a bosch you could also run veg.

[Mattcheese31]

forget paper, i owned a 1.6 before the Dtub, the Dtub smashes that, would spank the 1.8 all ends up and quite possibly take the xsi too....stage 1 tuned properly of course...also way better on fuel

[C.A.R.]

I wouldn't recommend a diesel to anyone who does less than 12,000....

A petrol, even with less power, is a whole bunch more fun than even a tuned diesel. But if you do a lot of long-distance driving or driving in dense traffic then a diesel is probably better for you.

Also, the heater on a petrol engined car gets up to temp so much quicker this time of year!

[4WayDiablo]

Having owned a 1.8 meridian and a 1.9DT both standard and with a stage one I would hand down reccomend the DT

at car says above is very biased. He is very much a diesel hater tbh

my experiences real world,mpg you will see around 30mpg in the 1.8 if driving sensibly and with the DT you would see a massive increase to 40 if driving sensibly. With near 60 achievable on a run

Performance wise you are looking at 112bhp on the 1.8 and very fee tuning limitations however its a very good and strong engine. They only really ever suffer from ICV failure which is a simple cheap fix
From the DT theyre 90bhp standard and are definitely slower hoever give it a stage one tune and you can see anywhere between 110-140 on a Bosch fuel pump and supporting mods with proven routes to hit 170bhp relatively chraply

for actually driving them the 1.8 is a great revvy engine and its fun to drive but the sheer torque of a diesel wins for me

Imo the only better thing about the petrol is the noise! A diesel can be quicker. Cheaper to insure cheaper to run and cwn even run veg oil!

[Eeyore]

I have had a HDi and a 1.8.

I would go for the 1.9 dturbo. You can run it on veg and its all cheap cheap cheap to run. Its the best way to get on the road. Tax for the 1.8 is £225 a year. You can get the same and more power out of a dturbo. 1.8 is good for bwarrrpppss. With the mileage youre doing Id go diesel. Im only running the 1.8 now because the HDi failed its MOT and I dont do many miles now so I can afford to run the 1.8 and enjoy it!

[r3k1355]

The 1.8 is neither quick nor economical, but I guess it is cheap because no-one wants the fucker.

[silverzx]

Definately the 1.9DT.

Pre-phase 3 1.8's aren't worth even looking at!

[aaronshort]

I must say I am a massive fan of a revvy N/A petrol, but this vote seems pretty unanimous!
Im guessing a dturbo running less than 25bar of boost will be more reliable?
How much is the veg oil and where is best to get it? the local chippy haha

[silverzx]

I must say I am a massive fan of a revvy N/A petrol, but this vote seems pretty unanimous!
Im guessing a dturbo running less than 25bar of boost will be more reliable?
How much is the veg oil and where is best to get it? the local chippy haha

Don't get ahead of yourself.

25 BAR and I will suck your d*ck every Xmas meet until I die.

[C.A.R.]

at car says above is very biased. He is very much a diesel hater tbh

That's not fair! I'm not a diesel hater, I just enjoy driving. You can go fast in a diesel but you'll always have more fun in a petrol.

I have owned a couple of diesel cars but have driven many more. I can see their place in society, frugal, easy to drive and often cheap to insure.

However, a petrol is vastly simpler, easier to find fault with and easier to live with. It's quieter, economy remains the same throughout the year (with a diesel you'll see MPG drop-off in the colder months) power delivery is smoother and linear and this all adds up to a more enjoyable driving experience. If money were no object and we weren't forced into running a derv, nobody would have one. Don't believe the fallacy that the popularity of modern diesel cars is due to their better performance, cos it isn't. We are a nation of cheapskates, living in an economy which is always getting more expensive on wages which have been frozen for many over the last 5 years. Don't kid yourself that you wouldn't be in a nice, petrol-powered hot-hatch or coupe if it wasn't for the state of our economy.

I'm not a 'diesel hater' if such a thing exists, they have their time and place, and right now is their time, but if you can afford to run a petrol or want a 'fun' car, then a petrol equivalent makes more sense. The 1.8 is a bad example because for it's performance it's not that great on fuel, but believe me they're more fun to rag down a country road - even if it is slightly slower. Outright speed in a straight line is not the be-all and end-all...

[aaronshort]

I must say I am a massive fan of a revvy N/A petrol, but this vote seems pretty unanimous!
Im guessing a dturbo running less than 25bar of boost will be more reliable?
How much is the veg oil and where is best to get it? the local chippy haha

Don't get ahead of yourself.

25 BAR and I will suck your d*ck every Xmas meet until I die.

PSI not bar haha, 25 bar would be crazyyyyy
Only joking, what does it take to get 130-140 hp out of a dturbo then?

[Eeyore]

yeh if its a 1.8 make sure its 16V. My 1.8 is faster than my stage 1 Hdi. But to make best use of the engine you need gti6 exhaust and intake manifolds. You can fit a gti6 gearbox and head too. Main problem with the 1.8 is the ecu cant be easily remapped so youd have to go stand alone if you wanted to map it. Still all the above is my plan. Loving it!

GTI6 box and exhaust manifold fitted for £250
Inlet manifolds are £30 and probably the same to fit.

[THE_Liam]

I must say I am a massive fan of a revvy N/A petrol, but this vote seems pretty unanimous!
Im guessing a dturbo running less than 25bar of boost will be more reliable?
How much is the veg oil and where is best to get it? the local chippy haha

Don't get ahead of yourself.

25 BAR and I will suck your d*ck every Xmas meet until I die.

PSI not bar haha, 25 bar would be crazyyyyy
Only joking, what does it take to get 130-140 hp out of a dturbo then?

Mattcheese31 is on 133bhp from a standard K14 with a stage 1, ground LDA and gov mod, so about 30 quid!

[Mattcheese31]

Don't get ahead of yourself.

25 BAR and I will suck your d*ck every Xmas meet until I die.

PSI not bar haha, 25 bar would be crazyyyyy
Only joking, what does it take to get 130-140 hp out of a dturbo then?

Mattcheese31 is on 133bhp from a standard K14 with a stage 1, ground LDA and gov mod, so about 30 quid!

sorry to disappoint but she ain't gov modded and that's 133.7 thanks . . .

[THE_Liam]

PSI not bar haha, 25 bar would be crazyyyyy
Only joking, what does it take to get 130-140 hp out of a dturbo then?

Mattcheese31 is on 133bhp from a standard K14 with a stage 1, ground LDA and gov mod, so about 30 quid!

sorry to disappoint but she ain't gov modded and that's 133.7 thanks . . .

Thats good going! Wanna tune mine?!?!

[Toms306]

Ph3 1.8 16valve ftw tbh, the ONLY car I've ever owned that nothings broken on. Had to clean the ICV, but that was it, only other problem they get is a dodgy coilpack.

Tax is the same pre Y reg, nice linear powerband, likes to rev and the noise is awesome with a decent cone filter. BUT the mpg is shocking, and the reason I sold mine, I was only getting 35mpg average, and I usually average fairly high mpg due to where I drive.

Don't bother with a 1.6, they're shit. Slow, uneconomical, plenty of common faults etc.

The XUD will do more mpg, probably not huge amounts more, ~45-50mpg on diesel which does cost more than petrol. If you run veg it'll be cheap though, about 10 pence a mile. But you do have to put up with the older phases, which are now starting to pick up a lot of problems - rust, wiring faults, brittle plastics (door handles snapping!), leaks etc.


Of your options, I'd go for the XUD....but be prepared for faults, which may get annoying if you're doing a lot of miles and need reliability...

[r3k1355]

PSI not bar haha, 25 bar would be crazyyyyy
Only joking, what does it take to get 130-140 hp out of a dturbo then?

Mattcheese31 is on 133bhp from a standard K14 with a stage 1, ground LDA and gov mod, so about 30 quid!

sorry to disappoint but she ain't gov modded and that's 133.7 thanks . . .

on a TMIC???

[londondan86]

I own a 2.0 16v xsi cabby as my daily at the moment and a stage 1 d tub "feels" much quicker due to the surge of torque when the turbo comes on boost.

No brainer for me

[306Puggy]

at car says above is very biased. He is very much a diesel hater tbh

That's not fair! I'm not a diesel hater, I just enjoy driving. You can go fast in a diesel but you'll always have more fun in a petrol.

I have owned a couple of diesel cars but have driven many more. I can see their place in society, frugal, easy to drive and often cheap to insure.

However, a petrol is vastly simpler, easier to find fault with and easier to live with. It's quieter, economy remains the same throughout the year (with a diesel you'll see MPG drop-off in the colder months) power delivery is smoother and linear and this all adds up to a more enjoyable driving experience. If money were no object and we weren't forced into running a derv, nobody would have one. Don't believe the fallacy that the popularity of modern diesel cars is due to their better performance, cos it isn't. We are a nation of cheapskates, living in an economy which is always getting more expensive on wages which have been frozen for many over the last 5 years. Don't kid yourself that you wouldn't be in a nice, petrol-powered hot-hatch or coupe if it wasn't for the state of our economy.

I'm not a 'diesel hater' if such a thing exists, they have their time and place, and right now is their time, but if you can afford to run a petrol or want a 'fun' car, then a petrol equivalent makes more sense. The 1.8 is a bad example because for it's performance it's not that great on fuel, but believe me they're more fun to rag down a country road - even if it is slightly slower. Outright speed in a straight line is not the be-all and end-all...

Epic troll C.A.R., epic troll. Sounds like it has been copied and pasted straight from the PistonHead's bible. Just the right amount of snobbery to be convincing, without letting people know for sure that you are on the windup

Couple of points:

There are two main types of diesel:

DI and IDI

And I fail to see how a petrol with complex electronics is simpler than an IDI diesel with a mechanical pump that just needs fuel and air once it's started.

Secondly, there are some people who prefer the hands on nature of a tuneable lump, which the XUD certainly is. Petrols cost a lot of money to tune at all. And when you do it is via means of bolt on kits etc.

You are talking in a more general sense than a comparison between a 306 1.8 and 1.9DT which complicates things a little so I will just leave it at that

[ozonehostile]

Why has no one mentioned hdi? Good time to pick up a nice one for cheap at the moment as everyone seems to be selling them to get bigger and newer cars. Hdi has next to no reliability issues compared to an xud, only things that really go wrong with them engine wise are lift pump and high pressure pump failures, crank pulley and tappy Injectors. No overheating, no headgasket failure every time you boot it for more than 5 minutes etc etc

Stage 1 map with increased torque can easily see over 50 mpg with power to overtake safely when needed



Hdi ftw if a reliable daily is needed, plus all the phase 3 toys which just make it a nicer place to be

[Mattcheese31]

Mattcheese31 is on 133bhp from a standard K14 with a stage 1, ground LDA and gov mod, so about 30 quid!

sorry to disappoint but she ain't gov modded and that's 133.7 thanks . . .

Thats good going! Wanna tune mine?!?!

if you want mate, tis easy enough . .

Mattcheese31 is on 133bhp from a standard K14 with a stage 1, ground LDA and gov mod, so about 30 quid!

sorry to disappoint but she ain't gov modded and that's 133.7 thanks . . .

on a TMIC???

yeah on the top mount, got loads of bits for her including fmic but kids and work leave me little time for dicking around atm . .

[Toms306]

Why has no one mentioned hdi? Good time to pick up a nice one for cheap at the moment as everyone seems to be selling them to get bigger and newer cars. Hdi has next to no reliability issues compared to an xud, only things that really go wrong with them engine wise are lift pump and high pressure pump failures, crank pulley and tappy Injectors. No overheating, no headgasket failure every time you boot it for more than 5 minutes etc etc

Stage 1 map with increased torque can easily see over 50 mpg with power to overtake safely when needed



Hdi ftw if a reliable daily is needed, plus all the phase 3 toys which just make it a nicer place to be

I don't think they are any more reliable tbh, just different things that break!

You've said about the HP and lift pumps, crank pulley and the ticky injectors. But then the sensors on most now are failing, MAF and TPS mostly, but also FPS etc. Whiny/exploding clutch release bearings and slippy clutches after a remap, cats snapping, EGRs stuck open, boost leaks that are near impossible to access.

Granted you shouldn't be blowing rod's through the block, or shooting coolant all over the engine bay like an XUD, but I still wouldn't say the HDi is great for a reliable daily, the majority haven't even had a belt change as they've just been passed around as workhorses every couple of years. There are a few decent examples (just not the ones I owned ) but theres also decent examples of XUDs....its just that they are so few and far between with both engines these days...

[THE_Liam]

sorry to disappoint but she ain't gov modded and that's 133.7 thanks . . .

Thats good going! Wanna tune mine?!?!

if you want mate, tis easy enough . .

sorry to disappoint but she ain't gov modded and that's 133.7 thanks . . .

on a TMIC???

yeah on the top mount, got loads of bits for her including fmic but kids and work leave me little time for dicking around atm . .

I would obviously compensate with beer tokens or fitting something to your car at the same time. Just don't have the knack.

[Mattcheese31]

Thats good going! Wanna tune mine?!?!

if you want mate, tis easy enough . .

on a TMIC???

yeah on the top mount, got loads of bits for her including fmic but kids and work leave me little time for dicking around atm . .

I would obviously compensate with beer tokens or fitting something to your car at the same time. Just don't have the knack.

thread highjack slightly but i take it you have Bosch and which 'bine? . .

[ozonehostile]

Why has no one mentioned hdi? Good time to pick up a nice one for cheap at the moment as everyone seems to be selling them to get bigger and newer cars. Hdi has next to no reliability issues compared to an xud, only things that really go wrong with them engine wise are lift pump and high pressure pump failures, crank pulley and tappy Injectors. No overheating, no headgasket failure every time you boot it for more than 5 minutes etc etc

Stage 1 map with increased torque can easily see over 50 mpg with power to overtake safely when needed



Hdi ftw if a reliable daily is needed, plus all the phase 3 toys which just make it a nicer place to be

I don't think they are any more reliable tbh, just different things that break!

You've said about the HP and lift pumps, crank pulley and the ticky injectors. But then the sensors on most now are failing, MAF and TPS mostly, but also FPS etc. Whiny/exploding clutch release bearings and slippy clutches after a remap, cats snapping, EGRs stuck open, boost leaks that are near impossible to access.

Granted you shouldn't be blowing rod's through the block, or shooting coolant all over the engine bay like an XUD, but I still wouldn't say the HDi is great for a reliable daily, the majority haven't even had a belt change as they've just been passed around as workhorses every couple of years. There are a few decent examples (just not the ones I owned ) but theres also decent examples of XUDs....its just that they are so few and far between with both engines these days...

Very true, like anything though I guess regular decent servicing is the key, one thing I noticed with hdi is the 12k service intervals which I think is part of the problem on most of the dodgy ones about. Service every 6k and keep on top of problems like the maf sensor etc and it should be OK. If the engine goes on one pretty much every scrap yard in Britain has numerous dw10 engines

[puglove]

My input on this.

If i was to have only 1 306 for fun & daily. I would have the 1.9 DT. With a mild tune they are fun to drive and work well on day to day basis. I currently own a hdi and its great daily but IMO even at stage 1 map it isnt no where near as fun to drive as a DT & the DT does the daily bit to

petrols. I wouldnt have any thing but a 6 but then i wouldnt have a 6 as my only mode of transport lol. I personaly feel that they arny as fun for blipping around town and B road bashing. And on long motor way miles they down xgive you the low revs and fuel econemy the dervs do. So yeah i wouldnt have a perv 306 apart from a 6 as a weekend /summer toy. (which i do so im kinda bias) lol


before any one starts bashimg me its just my opinion for the OP

---

Also on the topic of tom & zaks hdi V XUD argument. I thinl an XUD is just as reliable.

XUD: easier to diagnos/find problems cheaper parts and easier to work on for tthe amature mechanic to work on

HDI: tends to be harder to find the route of the problems. And parts seem to be more expensive. And harder to work on for some one with basic skills due to the electrical side of the hdi.


This is actually down to personal experience. My hdi has been a PITA

[Midnightclub]

Wasn't your Hdi electrical fault a fuse in the end Jamie?

[puglove]

one of them.... but that one could also happen on an xud and was down to my own fault