Heater Matrix Removal

[Grant]

I seem to remember, in a land long and far away, someone saying doing this can have negative effects, and cause damage to the engine.

Am I correct in thinking this?

Cheers

[Niall]

Good luck in winter as well is all I will say

[Grant]

Ill just piss myself to keep warm haha

Nah i want to remove the dash, but dont want the heater box left there so will probably fit a kit car heater.

If this is feasible that is...

[ginge191]

I'd only assume it would chuck more heat into the engine, and probably heat the engine up quicker. Good and bad i spose.

I wouldn't think it would take a negative affect

[Matt]

Think it was ruan that did a thread on it.

I mentioned it on '6 owners and got nothing but shit about it and how very wrong it was

[Niall]

I'd only assume it would chuck more heat into the engine, and probably heat the engine up quicker. Good and bad i spose.

I wouldn't think it would take a negative affect

It can create hot spots in the engine which in the long run, can lead to cracks in the block leading to head gasket symptoms. Trouble is, it's a new engine time unlike a hg.

[Grant]

Not arguing the point, but how will it create hot spots?

[ginge191]

I'd only assume it would chuck more heat into the engine, and probably heat the engine up quicker. Good and bad i spose.

I wouldn't think it would take a negative affect

It can create hot spots in the engine which in the long run, can lead to cracks in the block leading to head gasket symptoms. Trouble is, it's a new engine time unlike a hg.

could you not fix this by using a larger/second rad, a smaller once perhaps? Just thinking of relocation of the matrix and its function in terms of diffusing heat.

[Grant]

But then surely the 'stat would just open and put it back to where it was?

[Niall]

This^
The heater matrix circuit can not be shut off unlike the radiator to regulate temperature control. Because of this, if you put it at the front of the car in the form of a.second rad, there would be no temperature regulation at all leading to over cooling.
In the car, the matrix obviously isn't subject to air blowing through it from travelling so its a fair bet to say, the cooling properties will stay the same. Hence the lack of thermostat on that circuit.

[Grant]

But it is subject to air traveling through it from the blower motor. Having your fans on full can help with overheating in traffic to a degree...

[Niall]

Correct but that is a very small amount compared to what will flow through the radiator. You will just overcool th car if you run it to a second radiator which can be just as deadly for an engine as running it too hot

[Grant]

Struggling to get my head around this

If the car begins to over-cool, its at a point at which the thermostat would be closed. So if too much air is traveling through it, how could the too cool air reach the block through the closed thermostat?

[darrenjlobb]

Its fine to remove, just allow a small ammount of water to pass, connect the pipes together, and jublee them almost flat.

[Niall]

Struggling to get my head around this

If the car begins to over-cool, its at a point at which the thermostat would be closed. So if too much air is traveling through it, how could the too cool air reach the block through the closed thermostat?

Because the heater matrix is not regulated by the thermostat. Its basically its own completely open system.

[darrenjlobb]

The matrix if left wide open, will just dump it back in the water pump inlet (wrong side of rad), and given its easy flow, would just nick 90% of rad flow / overheat the shit out of the motor, just block it up and itl be fine, but good to leave a little bit of water flow to prevent air in the head, but its not a big problem prvoided it blleeds up.

[joe1joe]

Cant see a problem joining the pipes together to bypass the matrix

[Ruan]

As Darren said...

Because the heater matrix provides a restriction to the flow of the water around the engine, if you block it off completely, before the thermostat opens, you won't get any water flow around the engine, it has nowhere to go, so anywhere that is creating more heat than another place - you get hot spots...

Bypass it by putting in a Thru Piece - you end up sending ALL the water around the bypass, even when the thermostat opens up, it's easier to flood water through the bypass than it is to move it through the radiator, meaning the red hot water that's been round the engine just keeps getting pumped through a pipe, not actually going through the radiator..

Some engines are designed to not have heater matrixs connected all the time - ala VW engines and Ford engines, they have actual valves on the pipes to stop the flow, but you will damage a PSA engine doing it, the amount of times I've seen XUDs with bypasses and they're always saying it overheats, runs badly etc, then wierdly the head gasket goes..

[darrenjlobb]

Its fine to block it up tbh, ive never had any issues, the stat bypass pipe is the same size, and provides more than enough flow for water to warm up etc, the key thing is just not to connect them up.

Alot of people could maybe get away with it for most of the time, except maybe in really hot weather, but as soon as you start pumping some heat into the coolant (tuned xud etc), then you wont stand a hope in hell keeping it cool if its all just pissing around the matrix bypass, a hard tuned XUD is impossible to keep cool even without it!

[Grant]

Ok, so let me get this straight.

If I block it up it will be the lesser of two evils?

I know spoox do a bypass silicone hose, but that is not what I want to be doing, no?

I am just curious as to how would be the best way to go dashless...

[darrenjlobb]

The best thing you can do, is cut the two pipes off where the go through the bulkhead, get a piece of solid steel that the the pipes fit over, and drill a 5mm hole right thro it, so a small ammount of water can pass through.

[Ruan]

Yeah, XUD Missile did a calculation of the amount of restriction that the matrix puts on it...

It's in his thread somewhere.

[Grant]

Thanks gents. Much appreciated