Fitting hdi rods??

[Tom]

Right im on a massive budget and at the rate this job search is going i will be forever. Basically if i choose to fit a set of hdi rods whats the minimum i can get away with replacing? Surely if i strip the engine down to change the rods theres going to all sorts of gaskets that cant be reused? Maybe bolts need that need new and cant be reused? I dont know in all honesty. And the engine is on 170k so the rods will have to come out the bottom.

[cully]

probably find the rods have to come out the top as you wont clear the block webbings with the pistons withdrawing though the bottom.

not having done this myself im sure somone will shoot me down in flames

[Tom]

Theres no way to get them out the top because what i have been informed there will be a massive lip at the top of the bore :/

[ginge191]

What's the reason for changing the rods may i ask? If it's to deal with higher power, i personally feel it's a bit of a myth.

Seeing HDi rods let go at a similar rate/powerband to XUD rods i can't see any huge benefits.

And if you're on a 'budget', then i would suggest budgeting elsewhere also.. clutch for one.

[Ricky]

They wont come out the bottom without a huge amount of work, too much stuff in the way. Remove from the top, use some wet and dry to smooth down the black lips on the top of the bores, then apply a thin coat of oil to the bores and the piston ring compressor and they should slide out easy.

Be careful with the piston rings, they are pretty fragile.

[Eeyore]

Dec has spent something like £170 rebuilding his XUD. Just gaskets and stuff nothing special as far as im aware!

[Tom]

It is for reliability issues... amount of work isnt an issue i can take 3weeks off work tear the engine out and take my sweet ass time if it'll cost less. I've seen xud and hdi rods side by side and it would make sense for the hdi's to last better.

[ginge191]

It is for reliability issues... amount of work isnt an issue i can take 3weeks off work tear the engine out and take my sweet ass time if it'll cost less. I've seen xud and hdi rods side by side and it would make sense for the hdi's to last better.

For the time and effort for the long term reliability on a near stage 1 power? i personally wouldn't bother. XUD rods are proven to be sufficient to 180~bhp and HDi rods have shot near the same power band..

perhaps get the TD04 on first then look at rods?

[Tom]

Im more worried about td04 then bang before i have chance to sort hdi rods... i have the td04 sat around so id the engine came oug to fit the rods the turbo would go on at the same time...

[Ben]

[/quote]


XUD rods are proven to be sufficient to 180~bhp


[/quote]

Proven? Really?

I think its quite obvious that hdi rods are stronger, loads of xuds have thrown rods compared to hdi's, and a lot have thrown them well under 180 bhp.

The minimum you'd get away with spending would be hdi shells, a head gasket and a gasket kit, and getting the head skimmed.

[Tom]

Yeah i know theres f*ck all proof, xud rods seem to shit werever they want from what i can tell, and i have no luck whatsoever so im playing it safe.

[Ricky]

Only problem with doing all that, if/when it blows up, you've wasted a lot of money and time.

Just stick to normal rods, get another engine spare.

[Tom]

Only problem with doing all that, if/when it blows up, you've wasted a lot of money and time.

Just stick to normal rods, get another engine spare.

But then that just makes me think, why bother with a 306? Im already trying to make the best better but if its just going to explode... The thought of that annoys me.

Edit: By "best better" i mean xud is superior to gti6 and hdi lolz

[Toms306]

Doesn't the XUD have oil squirters like the HDi? Can't take HDi rods out the bottom so I assume its the same with the XUD?

[Tom]

Hell if i know aha. This is what the forum is for

[samass]

I'd say crack on with hdi rods, the xud ones seem to have a flawed manufacturing process, which causes them to shit themselves whenever they feel like it. Since the hdi rods were designed later, you'd presume that Peugeot figured out how to make them properly. Not to mention there's significantly more material on the hdi rods. Personally, I'd do it before putting the td04 on, doing it after seems pointless.
just my 2p

[Dave]

Who said HDi rods were the same? Ive killed a few of both and the HDi rods definitely stood up longer.

I did this on the cheap, kept the same rings, even the oil :p and just replaced with a new gasket, re-used the head bolts if theyre not stretched and obviously make sure you get shells with the rods...

[Ben]

Doesn't the XUD have oil squirters like the HDi? Can't take HDi rods out the bottom so I assume its the same with the XUD?

They do have squirters but they are incredibly easy to remove and put back in. You can take the rods out the bottom but you'd have to remove the crank so I'd always take them out the top to save the hassle.

[n0v0s]

Are you lot blind? Hdi rods defo thicker on little end area...


You could put your xud rods in the freezer, its supposed to help covalently bond the impurities within the metal construct, in effect mimicking cryo freezing.. I.e. strengthens any areas of metal fatigue.

[Ruan]

HDis blowing rods is 100% NOT comparable to XUDs blowing rods - the combustion process and peak cylinder pressures occur at vastly different rates, this is what damages the rods - if you didn't have to have all that massive cylinder pressure before TDC to get the fuel to burn, the rods would be fine to silly power levels.

"HDi" Rods are different - yes the part numbers are the same, that is more than probably because it's easier to stock one part... I've seen people pop HDi rods, but then my engine making over 300lb.ft which as far as I'm aware, no one's actually produced more for any prolonged period of time didn't blow stock XUD rods - so it's very much luck of the draw. I'd say HDi rods will last longer and you can guarantee NO issues with bearings as they are a SIGNIFICANTLY better design.

[Toms306]

Doesn't the XUD have oil squirters like the HDi? Can't take HDi rods out the bottom so I assume its the same with the XUD?

They do have squirters but they are incredibly easy to remove and put back in. You can take the rods out the bottom but you'd have to remove the crank so I'd always take them out the top to save the hassle.

Ah ok fair enough, I didn't realise they were removable, didn't try tbf though! I pushed them out the top on the PD so did the same with the HDi anyway lol.

[Daniel306]

There is no way to get the rods out the bottom, the piston just will not fit between the crank bearings. they must come out of the top

[Tom]

Well getting rid of that lip is going to be a bastard!

[Daniel306]

You will need a ring compressor and a honing tool, it should take the lip off

[Tom]

Should be able to borrow those from someone! I thought a honing tool is just for roughing up the cylinder walls? Or is it smoothing out lol

[Daniel306]

Its to put cross scratches in the walls so that the oil can get into the rings but it will help with the lip

[Dave]

Changing rods takes just a little bit longer than doing a head gasket really.. apart from you already know the head is ok so no need to skim, and just need to drop the sump and undo 8 nuts Drag your nail over the lip, if you can feel it, its too big. If you cant then just sand gently to remove the carbon lip, lube up and get those bangers out. I never ever have an issue with this, you should never force ANYTHING, you're only pushing the piston out the end of the cylinder at the end of the day, so if you're applying enough force to snap a ring than your pushing FAR to hard... the same to get them back in... should be tiny tiny gentle taps and providing it all oiled up, and your compressor is as tight as possible you shouldn't have an issue. Probably the same force you would need to hammer a thumb tack into a notice board.

Total cost of redneck bottom engine rebuild:

MLS Gasket £15
Tube of hylomar for sump/gasket £3
Rod/hdi rods+shells whatever you paid.
Could double your cost and buy new bolts if you felt the need.

You could add endless amounts of things you 'should' do and make a bottom end rebuild cost £300, but frankly for an XUD its not worth it. If your putting new rings in then an oil change after 200 miles or so wouldn't go amiss, but I didnt bother when they're same bore etc, just changed it slightly sooner cos there will be some immediate wear if they've been out.

[Tom]

Thanks Dave! Rep'd dude.

[Frosty]

So did we come to an anwser on fitting HDI rods?

Im thinking about fitting some as im fitting a bigger turbo (the 1 i brought off Sam) but not sure what power to expect. I will be taking the engine out anyway to make my life esaier to do bits and i will plan on taking the sump off to do the leaking sump gasket so it wouldn't take a massive amount more work to change the rods. Would just have to take the head off.

So the question is is it worth me changing to HDI rods?

Im just asking for advise and help NOT any arguments

[Tom]

Yes worth it. And yeah you will have to take the head off.