Should i get a fuel sensor (New Stage 2)?

[Pipps]

Hello

FMIC fitted yesterday - brilliant work by Kris B:



Even with the current129bhp Stage 1 map, the old girl running noticeable faster! (I've own her 11 years.)

I understand that an 1800 bar fuel sensor can be beneficial at Stage 2, in order to reduce durations.

How much benefit am I really likely to see by fitting one?

Is it really important? For £50, would you do it?

Thanks

Pipps

[Just Sean]

Would also like to know the answer to this... been toying with an R70 fuel pump too, but not sure if its really worth it!

[Pipps]

Would also like to know the answer to this... been toying with an R70 fuel pump too, but not sure if its really worth it!

Out of interest, how much do R70 fuel pumps cost?

[Just Sean]

Seen them range from £80 to £250!

[Midnightclub]

I know Dum-Dum wired up this sensor on his old HDi estate, it has to be mapped in to the ECU too for it to work, think the only thing which really changed was an increase in MPG, might be worth speaking to him about it though

[Pipps]

Better MPG sounds good to me!

I've been monitoring my fuel consumption for ages, and I was getting 650 miles out of a full 60 litre tank at Stage 1, even with a bit of spanking.

I will pull the trigger on the fuel sensor and look forward to reporting back on my findings.

Thanks

[Poodle]

This is a stage 3 mod really, it requires some wiring changes and for your map to be completely rehashed to suit, there's not many mappers out there that can do it. Before s3 it's a bit expensive for not much gain.

[Just Sean]

Better MPG sounds good to me!

I've been monitoring my fuel consumption for ages, and I was getting 650 miles out of a full 60 litre tank at Stage 1, even with a bit of spanking.

I will pull the trigger on the fuel sensor and look forward to reporting back on my findings.

Thanks

im getting around the same fuel tank wise...

Will be intresting to see how you get on with it... Who did(is doing) your s2 map?

Have you thought about newer (076) Injectors or anything?

[Pipps]

Mr tb205gti did my Stage 1, and he is doing my Stage 2 as well. I was really happy with the service I received from him first time around. Can't wait to get even more torque now!

Does the fuel sensor have to be fitted first, before the new map file is uploaded?

---

Have you thought about newer (076) Injectors or anything?

New injectors definitely sounds like Stage 3 business! I've heard some people have experienced lots of difficult with getting new injectors right. Have you done it yet?

[Just Sean]

no, im going up to see mr whippy for my stage 2...

He's told me that its easier to map everything together, cos ive gota new turbo that willneed mapping too, then fit the injectors and map them seperatly... however, im not sure about the sensor... but midnightclub said that it has to be mapped...

Your probably best of pinging and email/text to tb to ask him...

[Pipps]

Already did!

His response was:

You do not need the 1800bar sensor per se, but it's a good improvement in
order to keep the durations down...

[What are these 'durations'?]

I thought it might be worth asking about everyone else's experience.

Good to know it should be worth the money. I've just placed my order.

A 1920GW for £49. Thanks gents!

[Midnightclub]

TB can map that sensor, he did it for dum dum so pipp, you should have no issues.. unsure if whippy can though

You should be able to get the map 'made' first and then fit the sensor, i doubt you'd be able to drive it till the sensor was fitted though

[Just Sean]

Btw... where did you get it from?

When are you getting it mapped? Ill see how you get on with it before i get it!!

[Pipps]

Sean, I am getting it mapped remotely again by tb205gti. He takes my original map file, modifies it based on my request, emails me the newly modified file, and I then flash my car's ECU using an XP netbook and an OBDII cable and its software. I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks Mr Midnight. It should be good. Sounds like I'll have to get the file made-up and loaded to my netbook first. Then fit the fuel sensor, before immediately uploading the new map file, before then re-starting the engine again for the first time. Hope it all goes smoothly!

[Midnightclub]

Yup spot on mate, i didn't word my reply too well haha!

[Dum-Dum]

TB knows as much (if not more) about these sensors than I do.

Its the 1800BAR rail pressure sensor from a 1.6HDi

It screws straight into the rail in place of the original one but you have to swap 2 of the wires on the wiring plug for it to work (think its 1 and 2)

It will need a remap to make it run.

The benefits are more fuel with less duration and potentially better atomisation at high cylinder pressures. This sould mean more power and better fuel economy. I never got more than TBs baseline 1800bar map which hit 163bhp, there was more to come out of that fueling with the right boost.

It is a good mod but you want to know that your fuel system is perfect first.

[Pipps]

TB knows as much (if not more) about these sensors than I do.

Its the 1800BAR rail pressure sensor from a 1.6HDi

It screws straight into the rail in place of the original one but you have to swap 2 of the wires on the wiring plug for it to work (think its 1 and 2)

It will need a remap to make it run.

The benefits are more fuel with less duration and potentially better atomisation at high cylinder pressures. This sould mean more power and better fuel economy. I never got more than TBs baseline 1800bar map which hit 163bhp, there was more to come out of that fueling with the right boost.

It is a good mod but you want to know that your fuel system is perfect first.

What does "with less duration" mean, please?

[Dum-Dum]

a duration is a length of time

The injection duration is the length of time the injector is firing fuel into the engine and in the HDi its miliseconds.

Theres 2 ways of adding more fuel to the engine either inject for the same lenght of time at higher pressuer or inject at the same pressure for longer. the problem with injecting longer is there is only a very finite length of time when injecting fuel into the engine will actually be any use. too far before TDC and the piston will try and spin the crank the wrong way and destroy your engine, too long after TDC and there will be no compression there (and bugger all O if its all exhaust gas) and so the extra fuel wont ignite and will just be blown out the exhaust as smoke.


This is why the 1800bar sensor is really great as it gives EPIC smoke free tunes.

[Poodle]

As Chris says, you will need the map for the car to run with the dv6 frps. I understand the signals it emits are based on a completely different range to those of the standard sensor, so the systems are completely incompatible - the car won't run if you have the adjusted map and no sensor, the same goes for the reverse.

Can i also highlight the comment he makes at the end of the first post: You need to know your fuel system is perfect for this to be worth it... Ideally you need to combine it with a R70 pump or better, as the standard items are not designed to generate that kind of fuel pressure and may well struggle to maintain flow at higher rpms/loads.

076 injectors are a peugeot/bosch approved straight swap for your current items, the performance difference won't be noticeable, they're not a performance upgrade as such. Certainly nothing like fitting AMG tips to your current injectors like Bryn and some others did.

[Pipps]

Dum-Dum, great explanation - thank you

Poodle, I am confident that my 306 engine IS perfect (for a 10 year old 306), but if what you really mean is, 'is it as optimum as possible?', then perhaps my answer would be different. It would undoubtedly run better with uprated fuel delivery components.

Would a 111bhp Pug 406 with engine code 'DW10ATED (RHZ)' have the right R70 fuel pump for the job?

[Poodle]

What i really mean is what i said - your fuel system needs to be tip-top. Honestly, these things bog out on a stage 2 if the HP fuel side of things isn't up to scratch. You ramp the pressure up by 300bar and it really starts to struggle, cutting out under high loads is common, for example. Ideally you would want refurbished hp pump - including FPR - and injectors.

The pump you want is mainly from the 2.2 HDi, it was only fitted to certain models. All the info you need should be here:
http://www.rufre.com/DetalleArticulo.aspx/en/58328/

It's a direct fit, no cutting, bashing or further assorted adjustment necessary.

[KrisB]

Rhys.

You also need a de-cat! Pretty sure you still have a cat??

And a boost gauge.

And where's your project thread? C'mon!

[Dum-Dum]

Yeah you defo need a de-cat and a boost gauge.

Speak to TB if you wanna run the sensor and get him to map it in but to only run 1500bar for now and see how your engine/fuel system copes then get him to send over better maps at a later date.

[KrisB]

And an aftermarket filter to free up some engine bay room! BMC enclosed or something similar.

[Pipps]

Rhys.

You also need a de-cat! Pretty sure you still have a cat??

And a boost gauge.

And where's your project thread? C'mon!

My exhaust IS a Long Life straight-through de-cat mate!

Boost gauge has arrived - fitting it this coming week. New fuel sensor and seal has arrived too. Ordering 2.2HDi pump tomorrow. Fitting both next weekend. New Stage 2 tb205gti remap to be flashed at the same time.

Project thread is coming!

[Poodle]

Nice, look forward to seeing the project thread.

[Dum-Dum]

And an aftermarket filter to free up some engine bay room! BMC enclosed or something similar.

Nah unless your gonna get raped for a BMC or a viper a replacement K&N element in the standard box is all good, its not a bad design really

[Pipps]

I remember reading a detailed thread on another forum which demonstrated that the 306 HDi air intake is actually in a very good location, and that aftermarket air filters in most cases made things worse, and at best only add a negligible benefit over a standard air filter. The conclusion was that simple changing the £5 filter twice a year would be far more cost effective. If anyone remembers this thread and has a link then please let me know. Thanks.

[Pipps]

...I never got more than TBs baseline 1800bar map which hit 163bhp, there was more to come out of that fueling with the right boost.

When you say 'with the right boost', above, do you mean that you would have needed an uprated turbo in order to really get the most of using an 1800 bar fuel sensor?

[Midnightclub]

he was only running 17 psi IIRC, standard turbo