Engine issue, can anyone help?

[StarBenn]

Here's the video of start up that is bugging me. My mechanic is stumped at present and I'm hoping one of you will recognise the issue within...
It's the noise on idle that concerns me, after raising revs for a bit it seems to disappear...





I think I've also included the YouTube link incase photobucket messes up.

Please note, this is first thing in the morning when she has been sat all night, during the day when resting for 1-3 hours this doesn't occur.

[lolsteve]

Why do you have petrol clocks?

[StarBenn]

Why do you have petrol clocks?

I didn't think they were? They don't look like the clocks on my petrol did...

[lolsteve]

The rev counter goes to 8k , so it's petrol clocks or you've got one hell of a rev'y diesel

[StarBenn]

The rev counter goes to 8k , so it's petrol clocks or you've got one hell of a rev'y diesel

Oh I see! Hmm... Maybe but that doesn't affect the issue does it.
I'll have to grab me some dials at some point and correct the issue.

It's 100% the 2.0 HDi. lol

[Poodle]

Your oil looks to be over-full for starters, would be surprised if thats related though. Flol at the bodged in petty clocks...

Dont know ive seen that problem before, would make a wild guess at knackered injectors, but that really is just a random guess. How many miles is it on?

[StarBenn]

Your oil looks to be over-full for starters, would be surprised if thats related though. Flol at the bodged in petty clocks...

Dont know ive seen that problem before, would make a wild guess at knackered injectors, but that really is just a random guess. How many miles is it on?

Oils just on max. :/

Clocks I'm gonna sort, were like this when I brought it.

Around 84,000 miles.

Mechanic did say 'maybe injectors' along with 'maybe temperature sensor' and maybe 'fuel sensor' so I dunno , but after a little up in revs it then idles fine... Could it still be injectors do you think? :/

[Poodle]

Depends, does it just do this when it's cold? My thinking with the injectors is poor/uneven combustion when cold, ambient heat being enough to fix the problem once warm. If it's only on 84k though, would have thought the injectors would be alright...

Temp sensor is the other possible solution, but when i've seen threads on this before no-one posts the solution.

[1616six]

I know it's not related but have you got history with the car? If not check the online MOT database as il put money on your low miler being not quite as low as you thought!

[StarBenn]

Depends, does it just do this when it's cold? My thinking with the injectors is poor/uneven combustion when cold, ambient heat being enough to fix the problem once warm. If it's only on 84k though, would have thought the injectors would be alright...

Temp sensor is the other possible solution, but when i've seen threads on this before no-one posts the solution.

Literally first thing in the morning when she has been sat all night is it. Or longer than 4-5+ hours.
Temperature sensor would be an ideal place to start then as they're only about £15 new. Unlike injectors...

Shame about lack of solution, I'll be sure to post the result when/if it ever gets solved.

[Toms306]

If you've got petrol clocks....I'll assume theres no glow plug light on them?? If you're not waiting for the glowplugs first thing in the morning surely it will idle lumpy?

[StarBenn]

If you've got petrol clocks....I'll assume theres no glow plug light on them?? If you're not waiting for the glowplugs first thing in the morning surely it will idle lumpy?

According to my Haynes the glow plugs will only come on when temp reaches 0 degs or below anyway, as above that temperature the HDi'd doesn't need them. So the light hasn't come on, it says it won't unless the plugs come on, but won't come on because temp hasn't dropped that low yet. (Does that even make sense?)

I was hoping the only thing that was petrol was the rev counter, I'll try get a torch in and see if the light exists at all.

[Toms306]

I understand what you're saying, but 0c is a bit low IMO!? The light always comes on in the golf and the 106 I had before, both very different systems and both used the plugs in the monring, chugs and makes a right mess of the street if I tried to start without lol.

I don't know much specifically about HDi's though so you could well be right.

[Dan!]

Hdi won't need glowplugs really tom, especially at this time of year. I can't watch the video on my phone atm but from your explanation I would guess it's a shitty injector. It's likely to just be one or two at fault, if they were all bad it probably wouldn't start. Read up online about doing a leak off test and see if you are confident to do it yourself. If you are, it's fairly easy and will highlight any injector problems.

[Toms306]

Hdi won't need glowplugs really tom, especially at this time of year.

Fair enough....does the light not come on at all most of the time then? I'd have been looking for it if you hadn't said......

[Dan!]

The light will still come on and the plugs will still heat up, but you could literally just twist the key straight round and it would start. Same with your golf/my bora

[Toms306]

The light will still come on and the plugs will still heat up, but you could literally just twist the key straight round and it would start. Same with your golf/my bora

Not the same as the golf first thing in the morning lol, I made that mistake once!

Rest of the day its fine, but overnight it must get pretty cold in there, started first time but with smoke, chugs and lack of wanting to move was the result!


Edit - Might still be worth a try in the morning to leave ignition on for a few sec's before starting, just to see if it does make any difference? Only reason I suggested is the OP said it only happens first thing in the morning. I don't see how an injector would get better when warm?

[StarBenn]

Cheers guys for the input.

I've tried leaving it, the light has never come on.
But like I said the Haynes said it wouldn't unless the plugs come on and that they won't come on until 0 or below... So I've not even been looking for it.

The injector, I wondered if that would only be noticeable in morning and not the rest of the day.

@Dan! Would appreciate if you can have a look when you get chance and let me know what you think. Mechanically I'm not very confident with anything. lol

[Dan!]

The injector being worse after its left standing would be because rail pressure will drop when the car is left off and when you try to start it the high pressure seal in the injector will let fuel go into the leak off system instead of letting the fuel rail pressurize properly, meaning the engine has to turn over a few times to build up enough rail pressure for the injectors to fire.

[StarBenn]

The injector being worse after its left standing would be because rail pressure will drop when the car is left off and when you try to start it the high pressure seal in the injector will let fuel go into the leak off system instead of letting the fuel rail pressurize properly, meaning the engine has to turn over a few times to build up enough rail pressure for the injectors to fire.

Would there be any other signs that one or more might be gone?

[Poodle]

Other symptoms? Poor running lol.

Ben, as Tom said, you won't see the glow-plug light at all because you have petty clocks bud, ie they don't have a glow-plug light lol. And as Dan says, the glow-plugs on an HDi are pretty much unnecessary in this country, although someone did find they are actually active when the engine is warming up. Could always check them i guess, doesn't take long and will rule it out for sure, be a waste of time imho though.

Does your engine have any other random problems, eg running on after the key has been pulled, random power drops, etc?

[StarBenn]

Other symptoms? Poor running lol.

Ben, as Tom said, you won't see the glow-plug light at all because you have petty clocks bud, ie they don't have a glow-plug light lol. And as Dan says, the glow-plugs on an HDi are pretty much unnecessary in this country, although someone did find they are actually active when the engine is warming up. Could always check them i guess, doesn't take long and will rule it out for sure, be a waste of time imho though.

Does your engine have any other random problems, eg running on after the key has been pulled, random power drops, etc?

Other than the mentioned hiccup I think she runs well. Engine stops on turn and power is consistent. :/

I'm gonna sort the dials. Unless the thinking is it is the whole unit that's out?

[StarBenn]

Thanks to Toms306's eagle eye I have an update to share, sadly...

Upon being told the rev counter was wrong and I had a petrol display, I did some digging (following a suspicion of mine that maybe the whole unit was from another car) and found on the Governments MOT history request form that between 2007 and 2008 she was clocked...

I've worked out the correct reading is about 140,000 miles.

No this isn't great news due to thinking it was 84,000 miles but hey ho we live and learn, doesn't change how much I love this car and will just have to tackle some wear and tear problems sooner than I anticipated.


Does this make it more likely to be the injectors causing the issue as they've done more miles than first assumed? Will for sure update Wednesday when I've been to the garage.

[Toms306]

Not sure it was my eagle eye, think Steve and poodle were there first with petrol clock comments, but thanks anyway.

That's a shame to find its been clocked though, can imagine it'd be a bit gutting tbh.

Also now Dans explained how the injector can be at fault first thing in the morning that makes sense now, and with the higher milage I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was an injector.

Also, just out of interest, have you ever redlined it at 6k haha?

[Poodle]

140k is nothing for these engines, i shouldn't worry too much.

How's your fuel economy, smoke and engine noise? Crap injectors tend to show up in those areas, the injector tap will disappear at 3k rpm, easy way to see how bad it is lol.

[StarBenn]

I know it's not related but have you got history with the car? If not check the online MOT database as il put money on your low miler being not quite as low as you thought!

Wish I had done that at the time. Didn't know it existed!

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Not sure it was my eagle eye, think Steve and poodle were there first with petrol clock comments, but thanks anyway.

That's a shame to find its been clocked though, can imagine it'd be a bit gutting tbh.

Also now Dans explained how the injector can be at fault first thing in the morning that makes sense now, and with the higher milage I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was an injector.

Also, just out of interest, have you ever redlined it at 6k haha?

Yeah looking back you all deserve thanks.

Gutted yup. Not that I'm massively bothered, I'm just not a fan of being lied to. Though with it being the year it was, it's was even the guy I brought it from who did it. Never mind.

Haha. Nope. Not 6k. lol. Nowhere near. :/

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140k is nothing for these engines, i shouldn't worry too much.

How's your fuel economy, smoke and engine noise? Crap injectors tend to show up in those areas, the injector tap will disappear at 3k rpm, easy way to see how bad it is lol.

Thanks. That's put me at ease and made me feel a little better.

Erm, only time I managed to check was once and that came out that it is costing me 16p per mile in diesel... Is that helpful? (I work it out like that as I get paid a certain amount of money from work per mile I do, so I like to work out if it's covering it or not. lol)

I've tried testing noise, does disappear on higher revs, where I assume 3k is. Though possibly a little before that.

[Toms306]

16 pence a mile is crap lol, I'd expect that from a GTi6! Mine is (was) 10 pence a mile at ~60mpg on diesel at £1.42 litre. You're only doing roughly around 40mpg then.

I also wouldn't say 140k is 'nothing' for any engine, yes even a diesel. Fair enough if it's all motorway miles and serviced regularly with decent stuff.......but 140k of hard driving, with bugger all maintenance is a hell of a lot!

[StarBenn]

16 pence a mile is crap lol, I'd expect that from a GTi6! Mine is (was) 10 pence a mile at ~60mpg on diesel at £1.42 litre. You're only doing roughly around 40mpg then.

I also wouldn't say 140k is 'nothing' for any engine, yes even a diesel. Fair enough if it's all motorway miles and serviced regularly with decent stuff.......but 140k of hard driving, with bugger all maintenance is a hell of a lot!

lol. I thought it should have been about 10p tbh from what I worked out, I usually have to do a few full tanks to work out the average as it isn't very accurate and varies a a fair bit between, depending how full I get the tank and other stuff like traffic jams, which are now less after summer holidays finished.
I'll let you know what happens at the garage & I'll carry on calculating fuel usage.

[Dan!]

16 pence a mile is crap lol, I'd expect that from a GTi6!

Wut? O.o

Good luck with that lol

[Poodle]

Tom you do spout some shite.