Sister's first car.

[Kezzieboy]

So, my little sister is 17 in October, and is consequently looking for a car.

Obviously I suggested a 306, but apparently they're too big, so it needs to be 206-or-smaller in size. Her insurance is looking like it'll be around 1600 quid (for your typical 1.0-1.2 petrol, or slightly bigger diesel, could probably stretch to a 1.4 petrol or 2.0 diesel) , which leaves her with about 2k to spend maximum (obviously less would be better).

So, suggestions?



Awaits comments relating to the fact my sister is over 16

[declantg]

Get he a DT, insurance is a couple of shillings.

now where's some pics of your sister

[THE_Liam]

Pics or GTFO

[Kezzieboy]

Brilliant post Dec, suggest a car that I've already said isn't appropriate, and then suggest I post photos of my sister.

Bravo.

[cpikey316_]

106?

Failing that 106 equivalent from other manufacturers? Or is that too small?

[declantg]

I didn't think a 306 is that big? let her test drive yours and change her mind

[Ed Doe]

106? Good on fuel, fun to drive, small, easy to park (if you get one with power steering, or conduct all parking procedures at Warp speed ) and cheap to run. And ultimately not the end of the world when she accidentally scrapes the side of the car on that low concrete bollard that 'wasn't there when she got in the car'

[C.A.R.]

To be fair I would have been disappointed if there wasn't a "pics or GTFO" post.

With that said, she may not forgive you for recommending a 306 DT / HDi. They're old and a bit long-in-the-tooth now, her love for the 306 may not be so strong.

So, 206 HDi, 2.0? What's the insurance like? Furthermore, what about a 1.9TD 206?

Don't consider a 206 with any other diesel engine.

What's the budget like? Has she shown a particular interest in any other car?

A Fiesta 1.25 is a good shout, lots of poke for a small engine and lots of fun too. If the budget will stretch, what are the early Citroen C2's like now? Reliability wise?

[lolsteve]

Saxo 1.5d ? A fresher looking alterative to the 106, great mpg , low insurance, plenty of community to help it stay afloat

[Jake]

Fiesta, KA, 106, 206, mini, mg 25, Clio, polo, golf
The list goes on.

[C.A.R.]

Wouldn't recommend a 106 / Saxo to someone that I cared about TBH. GTi / VTS is a special case, but I just wouldn't want my sister driving around in one surrounded by school-run-mums in 2-ton SUVs...

[Toms306]

After owning a 106, that is certainly not the the car I'd want to be in when I'd just started driving.....especially if I was female and trying to apply make up/brush hair while driving, there really is no margin for error in those!

Personally, I'd go with a Polo if she want's something small, safe and reliable. They're not bad on insurance either, I was looking at them but they just don't put a quick enough engine in for me....but no-one wants a tonne of power when you've just started driving anyway.

[C.A.R.]

Polo? What like the 6n shape?

Absolute shite. Rust badly too!

[Toms306]

I dont know the names of the shapes lol, but they're decently eqippped and get all the saftey shite that the 106 wont have!

This shape - obv diesels cost more, find her a little cheap petrol. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-VOLKSWAGE...2c677d59b8

And all cars rust......the 106, KA, Golf, clio, rover.....even 306s believe it or not.

Edit - Infact, you can even get the newer shape with the round headlights for £2k..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-Pol...3a78dc6c50

[Kezzieboy]

As a French car owner, parts costs tend to deter me from the idea of a VW?

Nothing is too small (ooh-er), so a 106 is an option, which engines are best? She'll be driving like a granny and has no interest in cars anyway.

And I'm not letting her anywhere near my car for a test drive!

Fiesta could be a good shout, are they any smaller than 306s though?

[Niall]

Do not get a KA. I know most young women drivers do and i can tell you they are shite. The engines are fairly good but what good is a engine when you come out one morning and it's just sitting on a pile of rust?

[C.A.R.]

Engines aren't even all that good Niall, sister had the 1.3 and it had several visits to and from a garage because it wasn't running right.

Also, they always seem to rust around the petrol cap!

Seriously, the Fiesta 1.25 is a good little car. The engine is substantially better than those fitted to KA's, since it wasn't developed by Ford themselves.

[Toms306]

Honestly, don't get a 106. They really are horrible, they're not nice to drive, you don't feel at all safe in them (I assume you want to protect your sister!) and they're not even particularly good on fuel.

VW service parts don't really cost more on the smaller cars/engines tbh, the only difference is if something major breaks, like a turbo or a DMF....which won't be on a little petrol anyway.

Oh and 106s cost tonnes to insure as they're all driven by chavs who crash them.........yes the slow old NAD is only group 3.....yet it still cost me over £600 to insure!! My 180bhp group 27 golf 'only' cost an extra £200 lol.

[Niall]

Engines aren't even all that good Niall, sister had the 1.3 and it had several visits to and from a garage because it wasn't running right.

Also, they always seem to rust around the petrol cap!

Seriously, the Fiesta 1.25 is a good little car. The engine is substantially better than those fitted to KA's, since it wasn't developed by Ford themselves.

There's always going to be people that have issues like any engine but them endura engines are pretty sound! Suffer from HG problems but other than that are pretty bullet proof e.g suited to new women drivers....5k from cold, WOT start ups, horrendous gear box and clutch abuse.

And yeah Fiona's car rusted by fuel filler...and just about everywhere else.

[daddyfixit]

if you let her get a ka, it means you hate her.........

you will also be called in to shovel it off the path after she has been out in wet weather in it........they are made of cornflakes...........we all know how well cornflakes stand up to being wet ???

you will need to get a mig welder for xmas off her as well-----------------if it survives being wet, it will have more plates on it than the shelves of a shitty restaurant......

buy a 15mm spanner and cut it in half, that way you will be able to do the annual power steering rack change a bit easier......

and like main dealers , cut the slam panel off to change the power steering pump and pop-rivet it back with a plate ( see above post @ plates).

[Dan!]

206's aren't really any smaller than 306's. They are literally about 15cm shorter...

[Ed Doe]

Honestly, don't get a 106. They really are horrible, they're not nice to drive, you don't feel at all safe in them (I assume you want to protect your sister!) and they're not even particularly good on fuel.

VW service parts don't really cost more on the smaller cars/engines tbh, the only difference is if something major breaks, like a turbo or a DMF....which won't be on a little petrol anyway.

Oh and 106s cost tonnes to insure as they're all driven by chavs who crash them.........yes the slow old NAD is only group 3.....yet it still cost me over £600 to insure!! My 180bhp group 27 golf 'only' cost an extra £200 lol.

firstly; your golf cost you more than £800 a year to insure!?!?! My '6 with all mods declared and AFTER a fault accident is £820 IIRC, and that's paying monthly. If I'd paid up front it would have been around £750!

On to the matter in hand though;My nad cost £490 in fairness, but that was fully comp with 5 yrs protected ncb. I think you're missing the point though Tom; paying less than £1000 a year for a new driver is unbelievably good value these days. Insurance prices for new drivers have gone up loads over the last few years. We all complain that ours haven't gone down as much as we expected them to, but they're really the ones getting stung the worst.

When I passed my test, I was insured with the NFU, who offered a policy that technically insured me under my dads policy, but allowed me to develop my NCB. I was insured for £440 a year, aged 17, with no NCB. So when I go to get insured on the nad this time last year, with no claims against my name, and 5 years NCB, imagine my shock when they tell me £490 is the best they can do. Bloody robbery. But that's how much insurance has changed since we all started driving.

Hence, although it cost YOU more than £600 to insure the nad, I would still suggest it is overall a very very good car to start with, as that's comparatively cheap.

The other thing you have to remember is this;

how many middle-aged people with grey hair that watch Countryfile and take pottery classes and consider one glass of red and a sleeping pill a heavy night drive Mk4 Golf Diesels? High risk bracket that, the stereotypical Mk4 Golf Diesel driver....

How many young drivers have an old 106 because it's all they can afford to buy run fix and insure after they pass their driving test?

How long do you think 106's have been on the road for? How many do you think there are in the country?

How many golfs are there, and how long have they been on the road for?

Statistics (the bollocks the insurance companies actually subscribe to) will tell you that there are a lot of 106's on the road, and they have been on the roads for a lot longer than the mk4 golf diesel. There fore logically there will be more involved in accidents over the life of the 106 vs golf. Especially coupled with the fact everything manufactured by PSA depreciates like a stone, so is more affordable more quickly to the rest, and golf's don't, hence they are still considered the perfect car by the aforementioned Grey-heads....

[THE_Liam]

Honestly, don't get a 106. They really are horrible, they're not nice to drive, you don't feel at all safe in them (I assume you want to protect your sister!) and they're not even particularly good on fuel.

VW service parts don't really cost more on the smaller cars/engines tbh, the only difference is if something major breaks, like a turbo or a DMF....which won't be on a little petrol anyway.

Oh and 106s cost tonnes to insure as they're all driven by chavs who crash them.........yes the slow old NAD is only group 3.....yet it still cost me over £600 to insure!! My 180bhp group 27 golf 'only' cost an extra £200 lol.

Tom will you stop talking absolute shite as usual? Your crappy 1.5D 106 was awful because you bought an absolute dog and because it was a 1.5D...

My GTI was a brilliant car, amazing to drive, quite roomy for a small car, fairly comfy, very quick, great on fuel, cheap to insure and always put a smile on my face. Only bad point was how awful it was on a motorway...

You can't blame all 106s because yours was shit, you just buy shit cars.

[Slam Wagon]

Dont be afraid of a slightly larger engine, me mates first car was a 1.4 polo because it was cheaper than either the 1.0 or 1.1 as they are typical first cars and usually crash.

[InkedMuttley]

I didn't think a 306 is that big? let her test drive yours and change her mind

Feck that if she's fit she can test drive mine...oh wait!

Feck it she can test drive me

[Mattcheese31]

i need to see a picture of your sister really . . .only then would i deem myself capable of making a suitable suggestion of who she should ride . . . .sorry! which car she should drive . . . . .

[Toms306]

Honestly, don't get a 106. They really are horrible, they're not nice to drive, you don't feel at all safe in them (I assume you want to protect your sister!) and they're not even particularly good on fuel.

VW service parts don't really cost more on the smaller cars/engines tbh, the only difference is if something major breaks, like a turbo or a DMF....which won't be on a little petrol anyway.

Oh and 106s cost tonnes to insure as they're all driven by chavs who crash them.........yes the slow old NAD is only group 3.....yet it still cost me over £600 to insure!! My 180bhp group 27 golf 'only' cost an extra £200 lol.

firstly; your golf cost you more than £800 a year to insure!?!?! My '6 with all mods declared and AFTER a fault accident is £820 IIRC, and that's paying monthly. If I'd paid up front it would have been around £750!

On to the matter in hand though;My nad cost £490 in fairness, but that was fully comp with 5 yrs protected ncb. I think you're missing the point though Tom; paying less than £1000 a year for a new driver is unbelievably good value these days. Insurance prices for new drivers have gone up loads over the last few years. We all complain that ours haven't gone down as much as we expected them to, but they're really the ones getting stung the worst.

When I passed my test, I was insured with the NFU, who offered a policy that technically insured me under my dads policy, but allowed me to develop my NCB. I was insured for £440 a year, aged 17, with no NCB. So when I go to get insured on the nad this time last year, with no claims against my name, and 5 years NCB, imagine my shock when they tell me £490 is the best they can do. Bloody robbery. But that's how much insurance has changed since we all started driving.

Hence, although it cost YOU more than £600 to insure the nad, I would still suggest it is overall a very very good car to start with, as that's comparatively cheap.

The other thing you have to remember is this;

how many middle-aged people with grey hair that watch Countryfile and take pottery classes and consider one glass of red and a sleeping pill a heavy night drive Mk4 Golf Diesels? High risk bracket that, the stereotypical Mk4 Golf Diesel driver....

How many young drivers have an old 106 because it's all they can afford to buy run fix and insure after they pass their driving test?

How long do you think 106's have been on the road for? How many do you think there are in the country?

How many golfs are there, and how long have they been on the road for?

Statistics (the bollocks the insurance companies actually subscribe to) will tell you that there are a lot of 106's on the road, and they have been on the roads for a lot longer than the mk4 golf diesel. There fore logically there will be more involved in accidents over the life of the 106 vs golf. Especially coupled with the fact everything manufactured by PSA depreciates like a stone, so is more affordable more quickly to the rest, and golf's don't, hence they are still considered the perfect car by the aforementioned Grey-heads....

Christ, this had nothing to do with the golf lol, yes I pay that much due to mods. Also, a '6 would be cheaper for me to insure, fuel is the only reason I don't own one.

But the point is, I can insure a DT for about £50 more than the 106, and a HDi for just a little more again. Now you know my feelings on DT's, but thats a car that wont crumple into a ball at the first sign of an impact, has ABS and PAS (I know top spec 106s do to) and the majority come with electrical toys too.

I know my 106 was a pov spec diesel, but mates have had 106s and saxos which are equally as awful!! The other problem being the TU engine, quite a few of the girls I know had 106s/saxos and ended up blowing HGs on all of them because they don't have the mechanical sympathy like me or you would, and the TU doesnt take well to cold rags!

So if it costs me that much to insure, aged 20 with 3yrs ncb, I can only imagine how high it would be for a new driver.

And are you sure youre thinking of your 106 liam? Spacious? Comfortable? Amazing to drive? Erm.... Don't get me wrong, I'd love to rag about in a 106 GTi.....but it's not the car for a new driver IMO.

[Niall]

Tom don't agree with you 1 bit. My old 106 had 2 years of daily abuse and I mean abuse. It was ragged up the road to the limiter every morning cold, practically lived past 4k and only ever had 1 oil change in 30k. It was bullet proof that little engine. The newer silver top 1.4s did have HG issues but other than that, I challenge you to find a series of engines as good as the TU in that price range.

[Toms306]

They were all silvertop quikkys lol, just like my 1.4 306s (which also ALL popped headgaskets at some point in thier life), except my ph2 blacktop, that had the HG done under warranty at 5k miles lol.

You always get exceptions, and I dont doubt at all that yours was bulletproof........but most of them don't seem to be!

[Ed Doe]

OOOOOooorrr... Yours was the exception to the rule, rather than Nialls..... and mine for that matter...