Dodgy handling

[Niall]

Rigjt I really am getting confused.
I've transfered all the suspension parts from my 1.8 to the 6 but it still just doesn't want to grip the road!

I've fitted:
Wishbones - cheap pattern ones. Not the best but good nick
Front shocks springs and top mounts
New drop links
Standard almost new rear beam mounts

The beam looks to be in good condition with no play anywhere. It seems that when ever I try cornering hard, the car try's stepping out at the back. It's on t1rs with a good 5mm of tread on all of them.
Engine mounts are a bit shot and have just ordered a new bottom mount but surely this can't affect handling this badly?

[THE_Liam]

Any camber in the beam at all?

[Niall]

Any camber in the beam at all?

Nope. Looks pretty much perfect

[Jonny b]

Did the 1.8 do this ?

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Not just going into a corner that bit quicker and lifting are you

[Niall]

Did the 1.8 do this ?

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Not just going into a corner that bit quicker and lifting are you

No the 1.8 felt much more stable.
I have just thought of one thing. I'm running 1.8 springs on the front. I would assume there not as stiff as the gti ones what with the gti being a small elephant heavier.
Would this cause ipthis much of a problem? I could chuck the 1.8 around much more. I normally end up having to give a bit of opposite lock in the gti before I even get close to lift off!

[THE_Liam]

That'll be your problem I would have thought mate, you'll be getting more body roll up front which usually does cause oversteer on torsion beam cars, I've seen this on a 1.3 mk2 Golf on standard springs with a 2.0 8V up front...

[Connor]

Yeah no wonder a 1.8 handled pretty well on 1.8 springs... Shocking that they wouldn't work on a heavier lump...

/irishloweringftl

[Niall]

Thing is I originally had gti springs on the car and eventually swapped to 1.8 springs. No difference what so ever other than ride height.
Might have to see if my old gti springs are still knocking around and for sale (hint hint Kim)

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Yeah no wonder a 1.8 handled pretty well on 1.8 springs... Shocking that they wouldn't work on a heavier lump...

/irishloweringftl

It only had 1.8 springs on for 2 weeks before I f*cked it and bought a 6

[Rippthrough]

Had the tracking checked?

Ovalled a hub?

[Niall]

Had the tracking checked?

Ovalled a hub?

Tracking was done after the arms were put on. It was miles out before.
Don't think I've ovaled a hub. No knocks or bangs from that area.

[Rippthrough]

Rear arb arms haven't rusted through and become disconnected?

[spike2002]

Get some gti shocks back on with gti lowering springs the 1.8 shocks and springs wont be helping at all

[Niall]

Get some gti shocks back on with gti lowering springs the 1.8 shocks and springs wont be helping at all

Already on gti shocks mate. Just need springs
Rip, the ARB was out about 3 weeks ago and looks fine mate.

[C.A.R.]

May sound a lil stupid but hear me out..

The engine in the front of the '6 is heavier and acts like more of an anchor than the 1.8 does. The lighter 1.8 has better handling (IMO) because of this lighter engine, whereas the GTi6 is more prone to over steer because the engine gives the car a kind of 'pendulum' effect, where the back of the car wants to overtake the weighted front end...

Just an idea.

[Ruan]

I find EXACTLY the same with my GTi6...

After driving the Diesel even with shagged bushes, driving a lot of other 306s, GTis, Diesels, and other models... I've never been that unhappy with a cars handling.... I find 306s usually beautifully balanced, able to throw them into corners, know when the ass is going to step out... This one is none of those words, feels like a big unwieldy lump... reminds me hilariously of a mk4 golf I drove....

I can't put my finger on it, it just doesn't feel right on the road, it doesn't like gripping the road, it wanders all over the place.... I couldn't keep up with my housemate in a 115hp Vauxhall Zafira the other day down a backroad, because the back end is just SO tail happy, the front end doesn't like gripping...

It just doesn't feel right at all... I have no confidence in the car, but I CBA spending any money on it to work out what the hells up with it...

[Rippthrough]

Check all the dampers first, and check the front arb moves freely in it's bushes and isn't binding.

[Toms306]

Are you running on the red light Niall, or stripped rear? I always found my 306s, especially the 1.4 on stiffened shocks, would hold the road much better with a tank of fuel, although obviously it was slightly slower so was always a compromise between the two. With no weight it as like it 'skipped' over any small bump, obviously causing less traction between the tyre and the road.

I'm well aware loads of people run stripped rallyes and '6s though.......maybe their roads are better though.

[vlj]

Are you running on the red light Niall, or stripped rear? I always found my 306s, especially the 1.4 on stiffened shocks, would hold the road much better with a tank of fuel, although obviously it was slightly slower so was always a compromise between the two. With no weight it as like it 'skipped' over any small bump, obviously causing less traction between the tyre and the road.

I'm well aware loads of people run stripped rallyes and '6s though.......maybe their roads are better though.

The roads round here are terrible, and my xsi had no weight in the rear but went round like it was on rails, no problem from the rear

[Niall]

May sound a lil stupid but hear me out..

The engine in the front of the '6 is heavier and acts like more of an anchor than the 1.8 does. The lighter 1.8 has better handling (IMO) because of this lighter engine, whereas the GTi6 is more prone to over steer because the engine gives the car a kind of 'pendulum' effect, where the back of the car wants to overtake the weighted front end...

Just an idea.

Certainly food for thought!

The shocks are all fine. 1 year old B4s. Haven't checked the ARB but will when I fit my brace.

[el sid]

Niall have you checked the rear beam mounts and shocks ?

[Rippthrough]

What tyres are you on, and what pressures?

[Niall]

Right...

Sid, rear mounts are 6 month old standard mounts. Swapped them a few weeks back as one was actually detached. That made a big difference. Rear shocks are Bilstein B4s and are 2 years old but good nick with no leaking

Rip, tyres are 195/55/15 toyo t1r all round with 36psi in with 6 mm of tread.

Yesterday at ace I picked up a set of 30mm gti eibach springs for £30. Fitted them today and took it for a very brief forgive. Only brief because both petrol stations near me were closed and I was below the red line! Tomorrow will take it for a drive round my local "testing" roads and see what it's like. Steering seemed a little less responsive but that will be because it's now higher at the front. Rear needs to come up a little.

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Oh and whilst up in the air with both ARB links disconnected, I checked the ARB. Nice and free moving. In fact it might be slightly too free so will be going and getting two new bushes tomorrow.

[Jonny81191]

I blame poor driving...

[Niall]

I blame poor driving...

You could be right....the 1.8 was easy to drive hard into corners....twice now I've almost put the 6 into a wall/central reservation from epic under steer!

[Niall]

Fixed. Fitted some 30mm gti eibach springs and it's much more compliant now. Couldn't properly spank it as it was wet but it's miles better

[Jonny b]

Good good buddy, at least it's sorted

[Niall]

Good good buddy, at least it's sorted

Just need some new front shocks now. Thinking b6s. But will see when I have the money.