Hybrid turbos

[cwspellowe]

Well I'm running a td04 at 30 psi atm but want some that kicks in earlier but can hold the power

Garrett GT2052 or 56. spool super quick and hold boost til 5k. With a decent exhaust elbow to.

^^This

The GT series are the way forward without f*cking about with vane control on a VNT.

The 56's i've had were brutal, just user error that killed both of them. I'm confident the next one will be fine as I now know where I went wrong...

[David]

What's power difference to that compared to a td04?

[Ruan]

A 2052 will produce the same power at around 24-26psi that a td04 would be making at 30+psi, with much less heatsoak...

My car made a 'dyno' 175hp atf, but that's a typical dyno figure, they applied the wrong tranny losses, so if you apply the right tranny losses its more like 178-180hp, then include the fact its on a dyno, no airflow compared to on the road and that's without methanol injection... At times with 22psi that setup was producing over 190hp... With a 52mm compressor...

For reference, it make gti6s look like they were going backwards when rolling...

You cannot beat a modern turbo, but due to the fact they're low inertia to drop spool times and so efficient, it means that if you abuse them, they WILL break... You cannot run 30+ psi on a GT series if you want it to last, also its not needed, they're moving as much air at a lower boost pressure...

[David]

So at GT2052 will spool sooner then at td04 and be more powerful at 24-26psi with the right set up than a td04 at 30+psi yeah?

[zx_volcane]

I can share my subjective views on this, having run a few turbos now including a t25, gt20 and now a td04 and jammapics gt25 hybrid.

If as you say you want to retain the power/psi of the tdo4 but spool, a bit quicker I'd personally go hybrid - although I'd have thought cost might be an issue.

The gt20 in my opinion runs out of puff higher up the rev range and leaves you hanging, but it is fudging awesome for quick off the line and over takes, 30-70 ..etc

Just didn't have the kick (lag) that the td04 has, which just wallops you in the back when it comes on, and will hold silly high boost round the clock.

I think they suit completely different driving styles?

The hybrid is a really nice compromise, comes on early and holds the power right up the revs.

I don't think the td04 is that bad, especially compared to the T25, its pretty drivable and for the money / ease of install (especially now you can buy ready made plates) it can't be beat for a practically bolt on and fairly reliable 160+bhp.

[Ruan]

Completely agree with the above - they're different turbos for different people... The GT2052 is brutal down low, comes in very soon, loads of grunt and will make the same power ish as a TD04 - I doubt it'll make significantly MORE power than a TD04 as such, but be a MUCH nicer car to drive on the motorway and in everyday situations...

However, if you enjoy wringing a cars neck, taking it to 5.5k all the time, then you might be best off getting a bigger compressor on your TD04... Swap in a 15g compressor wheel or something...

The TD04 will FEEL like it carries on really high through the RPMs, but that's simply due to the flatspot before if you catch me, the GT20 has come on really early with a massive load of torque low down, but it doesn't keep on increasing up the RPMs - it's just not big enough for that, a GT2056 will carry on a bit further...

[David]

I very rarely take my car to 5.5k tbh and I do a hell of a lot of motorway driving aswell

[Ruan]

As I'm sure I've pointed out before, my car would do 30-70 in around 5 seconds...

That's just a bit quicker than an E36 M3... There's not much that would keep up on a sliproad...

[Dum-Dum]

If you want a Hybrid id be looking at something like the ones JP had made but TBH Id be talking about getting it done custom to your own spec with a turbo maker. Maybe even get a small Holset put together.

VNT is in an interesting conundrum as essentially the issues are around controlling it. Ruan (who is a massive geek) has struggled with making the electronic controller that there is designs for on the internet. Any mechanical control appears to be flawed for a variety of reasons.

Im looking at flipping my VNT to boost actuator possibly with a ball and spring valve in the feed line to stop it moving till a certain PSi. Ive got a T2 actuator sitting here that I need to put on a jig to measure boost vs travel so I know where to set it to start (and if it even has enough travel or Im gonna need to alter lever ratios.

My VNT is a GT2359V off a Merc 320CDi

[cwspellowe]

Again, from my limited testing of the GT2056, it fecking flew.

On the 9mm pump with only a 4mm or so gov shim, it was perfect, ran out of puff just as the fuelling was cutting out, and it came on boost SO quickly compared to the T2, couldn't believe the instant torque from it. Didn't try a proper 30-70 but the one that killed the turbo was around 6 seconds, which considering a T2 was about 10 seconds on the same fuelling that's a massive improvement.

And i'm confident in the application now having investigated. I'd been wondering if maybe oil pressure was an issue, or turbine being too small compared to the compressor. It was just me assuming it could handle the same kind of boost as T2's and TD04's and being wrong, i'll hold my hands up and say I threw 35psi at it dewastegated so it possibly even surged higher when it snapped, eyes weren't on the gauge. Setting it up properly it WiLL be epic.

VNT's will always boost harder, by design they're much more efficient. Setting them up isn't impossible but for a part time "tuner" it's a lot of hassle. Ruan put the effort in and we've all seen the results in his videos, but it's like anything else, if you have the time and patience to research it then go for it, a lot of people just want m0ar boost though and slap on a TD04 with a set of ready made plates as they know it works and is relatively low risk.

On the other hand, I set out on a bit of an adventure, cocked it up twice and now my wallet is hurting. But i've learned from my mistakes and won't make them again.

Same with VNT's, if you wade in at the deep end then there's every chance you'll pop one very quickly. Shit happens though and you have to accept it and move on.

[con67]

If you want a Hybrid id be looking at something like the ones JP had made but TBH Id be talking about getting it done custom to your own spec with a turbo maker. Maybe even get a small Holset put together.

VNT is in an interesting conundrum as essentially the issues are around controlling it. Ruan (who is a massive geek) has struggled with making the electronic controller that there is designs for on the internet. Any mechanical control appears to be flawed for a variety of reasons.

Im looking at flipping my VNT to boost actuator possibly with a ball and spring valve in the feed line to stop it moving till a certain PSi. Ive got a T2 actuator sitting here that I need to put on a jig to measure boost vs travel so I know where to set it to start (and if it even has enough travel or Im gonna need to alter lever ratios.

My VNT is a GT2359V off a Merc 320CDi

I've gathered up near enough everything needed to have a go at this using a vag edc15 ecu, loom, ecu, all sensors etc etc. Even got a few vag gt17 turbos but would love that gt23, its very underated although i'll probably end up with a 2260 because they're more common, how much was it? Dam I need a car

[Dum-Dum]

I've gathered up near enough everything needed to have a go at this using a vag edc15 ecu, loom, ecu, all sensors etc etc. Even got a few vag gt17 turbos but would love that gt23, its very underated although i'll probably end up with a 2260 because they're more common, how much was it? Dam I need a car

I have considered an ECU but with the trouble ruan has had its not for me. All you need is a 4 bar map sensor, the TPS of a semi ECU bosch, an EPROM chip and a Vac actuator thingamy, not even the VAC actuator if your going for the servo operated 2260 (which looks like an awesome turbo)

Boost actuator off a T2 is the way forward. Might actually keep the vac actuator too so i can use an egr solenoid and micro switch to open the blades on idle.

Anyway your gonna cry when you hear how much I payed for the 2359, see below if you can bare to look.






























































Just £70


Its perfect, blades in good condition no undue play, spins fast and free, looks clean.

[Piggy]

dang thats cheap.
what engines do they run on from factory???

anyone looked into the K16 turbos from the mercs?