The reason people end up lifting the head is due to the problem of using the stock injectors - the OEM calibrates the engine for a set power level, uses the best nozzle size for the power produced, max engine speed and where the power needs to be, yet small enough to get excellent atomisation even at lower railpressure. Unfortunately, asking for double stock power on the stock injectors is not going to work well.
When the OEM calibrates it with the correct nozzles and other hardware, it means that they can get the full injection in the cylinder in x crank degrees, keeping it within the window of having heat and compression, and tuned so the maximum force is placed on the piston downwards, not too early and creating negative torque as the piston comes up, not too late and "chasing" the piston down the bore and exerting less force on the piston. Not to mention, keep within emissions specs...
When you start pushing the power up, you can either A. Extend the duration for more fuel at the same pressure or B. Increase the rail pressure for more fuel in a given time frame or C. Get bigger injectors that already inject more fuel in the same period of time. The problem lies that when you're asking for over DOUBLE the amount of fuel - you can crank the rail pressure which will give you gains in shortening the duration for the same amount of fuel, but there's a limit. Or you've got more chance of burning it if you start the injection early, i.e. needing more advance to stop the end of injection getting too late - run it too late and you'll blow the still burning gasses out the exhaust valve, causing a lot of heat, smoke, noise straight out the exhaust. Problem is, too much advance increases PCP (Peak Cylinder Pressure) significantly - this a major contributing factor to lifting cylinder heads... Combine this with double the fuel, probably a bit more railpressure to get that amount in even earlier and before you know it, you've got PCPs way higher than you expected.
So yes, you can make the power on stock nozzles, but you're running the engine so far out of calibration, you're likely to have real problems trying to get it all in in time - when you're injecting large quantities *and* giving it a load of timing to try and stop the EOI getting criminal.
Or just stick some bigger nozzles in and then you solve those problems, but end up with about a thousand other problems.
If you're feeling particularly enthusiastic, you can now buy PSGs (Pressure Sensing Glowplugs) and I'm sure with an MCU/FPGA doing a bit of processing, you could get some very interesting data out of them!
It's SIGNIFICANTLY easier to swap the pistons out of a RHW 16v into a RHY 8v bottom end and put a Bosch 16v (RHW/RHM/RHT/4HX) head on top - all the mounting stuff is way different on the 16v blocks.
IMHO the exhaust manifold yes is shit, but not as bad as the stock turbo...
The DW10BTED4 (RHR) Siemens Injected 16v yes is 136hp - but has a slightly different cylinder head to the DW10ATED4/DW12TED4 (RHW/4HX) Bosch Injected 16v engines which are 110hp (2.0 16v) and 136hp (2.2 16v). They're not really interchangable, there is so much different on the BTED4 RHR engine - this is the Ford one that's used in the Focus, Mondeo, CMax, Volvos, 407, late 307s.
The injectors are totally different - they don't fit for starters. DW10ATED4 RHW 2.0 16v is about the same size as the DW10TD/DW10TED (RHY/RHZ) 2.0 8v, DW12TED4 4HX is bigger again.
Extra bonus info - DW12UTED (4HY) is the same size as DW10TD/TED (RHY/RHZ).
When the OEM calibrates it with the correct nozzles and other hardware, it means that they can get the full injection in the cylinder in x crank degrees, keeping it within the window of having heat and compression, and tuned so the maximum force is placed on the piston downwards, not too early and creating negative torque as the piston comes up, not too late and "chasing" the piston down the bore and exerting less force on the piston. Not to mention, keep within emissions specs...
When you start pushing the power up, you can either A. Extend the duration for more fuel at the same pressure or B. Increase the rail pressure for more fuel in a given time frame or C. Get bigger injectors that already inject more fuel in the same period of time. The problem lies that when you're asking for over DOUBLE the amount of fuel - you can crank the rail pressure which will give you gains in shortening the duration for the same amount of fuel, but there's a limit. Or you've got more chance of burning it if you start the injection early, i.e. needing more advance to stop the end of injection getting too late - run it too late and you'll blow the still burning gasses out the exhaust valve, causing a lot of heat, smoke, noise straight out the exhaust. Problem is, too much advance increases PCP (Peak Cylinder Pressure) significantly - this a major contributing factor to lifting cylinder heads... Combine this with double the fuel, probably a bit more railpressure to get that amount in even earlier and before you know it, you've got PCPs way higher than you expected.
So yes, you can make the power on stock nozzles, but you're running the engine so far out of calibration, you're likely to have real problems trying to get it all in in time - when you're injecting large quantities *and* giving it a load of timing to try and stop the EOI getting criminal.
Or just stick some bigger nozzles in and then you solve those problems, but end up with about a thousand other problems.
If you're feeling particularly enthusiastic, you can now buy PSGs (Pressure Sensing Glowplugs) and I'm sure with an MCU/FPGA doing a bit of processing, you could get some very interesting data out of them!
(14-08-2015, 10:42 AM)welshpug Wrote: If you're thinking of more valves just use the whole engine, there's too many differences to make it viable to swap bits about.
It's SIGNIFICANTLY easier to swap the pistons out of a RHW 16v into a RHY 8v bottom end and put a Bosch 16v (RHW/RHM/RHT/4HX) head on top - all the mounting stuff is way different on the 16v blocks.
(14-08-2015, 10:11 AM)JTaylor2005 Wrote: Ah so it seems the main two issues are getting the exhaust flow out and enough fuel in.
So on the exhaust a log manifold made well out of stainless and much larger bore would be good. Which would then allow any turbo flange to be mounted onto it.
Now the 16v head and pistons. Do they use the same injectors as the ones in the 8v or are they their own? They run stock of 136hp if I'm remembering correctly?
IMHO the exhaust manifold yes is shit, but not as bad as the stock turbo...
The DW10BTED4 (RHR) Siemens Injected 16v yes is 136hp - but has a slightly different cylinder head to the DW10ATED4/DW12TED4 (RHW/4HX) Bosch Injected 16v engines which are 110hp (2.0 16v) and 136hp (2.2 16v). They're not really interchangable, there is so much different on the BTED4 RHR engine - this is the Ford one that's used in the Focus, Mondeo, CMax, Volvos, 407, late 307s.
The injectors are totally different - they don't fit for starters. DW10ATED4 RHW 2.0 16v is about the same size as the DW10TD/DW10TED (RHY/RHZ) 2.0 8v, DW12TED4 4HX is bigger again.
Extra bonus info - DW12UTED (4HY) is the same size as DW10TD/TED (RHY/RHZ).
