Which Engine (kinda new car thread but not :P )

[Toms306]

I know it'll seem biased Tom but I do love my CDTI 150.

One of my colleagues has a Mondeo TDCI 130 and has always had no more than 40mpg, he's always been shocked how I get 52/53 constant. His mondeo is constantly in the garage for various things too.

Mondeos are very very common. I know you see a fair few vectras but there's something about them for me. I love mine.

My tax is £170 a year, MPG is in the 50's, get a £150 DT UK box and they'll be sitting near 200BHP.

Look at it this way, ALL modern diesels suffer from EGR issues. The first thing I did was fit an EGR restrictor plate from eBay for £3.

We've all heard of the diesel injector problems on the modern engines too, I spend near the same time I do on here as I do on vec-c now & I've never seen a thread of a CDTI 150 with injector issues, on the flip side i've heard a lot through just when I was going to buy mine, about mondeos with them as I also considered an ST TDCI.

I'd love a Mondeo ST TDCI but there's just more appeal about the CDTI 150 as it really is a bit of a sleeper with a few tweaks, they can be picked up for peanuts if you don't mind higher miles & there's loads that can be done to them.


The thing you need to take into consideration is what ever car you buy that has 130+ BHP, wont be THE most economical car in the world. If you want a genuinely economical car then I'd seriously consider looking at a Corsa 1.3 CDTI or similar, I know you want more space but they are the truly economical ones. My 150 reads 52-53 avg MPG constantly but the way I drive it I probably see less than that usually.


Finally for me is that there will be an influx of people saying "Oh they're all rubbish, we had loads at work as reps cars and they constantly broke & handle like shite"

1. The car you'll be getting IIRC will be under £3000? So it's gonna be what 8yrs old roughly? Any niggly problems will be fixed, you'll soon see on viewing it if the swirl bar is off, if the EGR is knackered there'll be dash lights or rough pulling away etc.

2. Handling - I've heard a lot of mixed opinions about both cars when it comes to handling. I've only ever driven a basic LX TDCI mondeo that I thought was pretty boat like and nothing special to drive.

I don't know what a standard Vec is like but my SRI has the 'sports' suspension from factory which is 15mm lower and has stiffer shocks. I think its epic to drive. No body roll what so ever, it sticks to the road, I've got mine on 19" snowflakes with 35 profile tyres which I must admit does make a nice difference.

To summarise,

I'd test drive both, also have a look at Astra 1.7 CDTI's (100bhp) as i've heard good about them too for the reliability factors. I did choose the Vectra over the Mondeo as to me it's aesthetically more pleasing & you can get an awful lot more choice and spec for your money.

Good luck!

Wow, cheers Jordan!

Looks like you deffo done plenty of research before buying yours!

I know nothing thats slightly 'fun' or 'fast' will be that economical, but the priority here is space really,something corsa sized wouldn't be anywhere near big enough currently.

The astra would probably be alright sizewise (although I've not checked how much rear space there is as old people make a right hassle getting in cars, even the 306 doesnt really have enough space). However to get the 150 diesel in the astra you've gotta pay more than the veccy and they're pretty rare from what I can see. I've gone for mondeo or vectra because both are common as so should be easy enough to find locally.

Also you say about the tuning box but I want something thats quick enough for me to start with so i won't do mods (no doubt I'll end up doing a few, like f*cking the EGR off for a start lol, but really nothing major for a while). So Im kinda thinking the 130 Mondeo may not be quick enough and will get boring quickly. But both the 150 Vec and 155 Mondeo have better 0-60 times...so I hope it works out that the 30-70 (which lets face it, we all do more of most days) is also better.

Mondeo certainly appeals more to me.

Tom, why do you need a saloon? Serious question, as I'd have thought a hatchback would suit you better? And be much more practical. Unless you were after an estate?

If you're wanting an Estate then that would make more sense.

The 2.2 Mondeo is rarer than the 130, which are significantly cheaper than an equivalent CDTi 120 Vectra. You can get a sub-100k TDCi130 Mondeo for less than a grand.

The ST Mondeo TDCi is above your budget, but you could get a 2.2 Zetec or Ghia (if you can find one)

My old man had a CDTi150 engine in the Astra H Sporthatch, which was a nice car. It had a very harsh ride though, and it felt very 'crashy' with vague steering, but it did go well. The powerband on the standard map was very narrow though, if you wanted to make progress you really had to stir the 6-speed box, which can present another weak point on these. The EGR failed on the car at 7 months old (from new) and that was replaced under warranty. I'd suggest that any car you get will have EGR issues at some point.

Handling-wise, nobody buys a barge like a Vectra or Mondeo for their handling characteristics, but the Mondeo is supposedly better.

Another consideration for you might be the rare-but-often-very-well-equipped Vauxhall Signum?

I'm still going for a 5 door hatch Chris, a salloon would be no use to me with a small boot for access. Basically I need space for two things - people (mainly my Nans who find it difficult to get in or out of cars at the best of times so the more space the better) and also 'stuff', I carry a lot of stuff around to various places, to and from nans/the dump/Dads and 'if' I move out I'll need enough space for that. So a large boot/loadspace is also necessary, along with easy access.

The space in an estate would be ideal at times, however I can't justify the extra size and weight (loss of mpg) of an estate again tbh, plus if I go for the Vec, the hatch doesnt have a DPF as Jordan says. A mondeo hatch is big and easy to fit stuff in, vectra boot looks a little smaller but I've never tried fitting nything in one so may just be a decieving shape.

I'm not going for a cheap as chips 'under a grand' car again - as it simply doesn't pay off and with my Nan offering me a few grand for a 'better' car I'd be daft not to take it - I put it off last time and look what I ended up with lol. Anyway, long story, short is that Nan doesn't understand anxiety/OCD etc and doesn't want me to move out (as apparently I'll hate living with no-one else....umm, yeah the complete opposite of reality but she's not one to change her mind lol) so she doesn't want to offer me money for that. However she's willing to give me £3-4kish for a decent car (no, I dont understand the logic there either) but Mum said I should take that money and buy a new car, then use the £4k that I'd saved for a car to move out instead. So budget is £3-4k ish, hence not looking for a pov spec LX with a million miles on it.

As you say the handling isn't great, as much as I moan about the HDi, it does hold the road better than anything else I've driven. However aslong as I can still corner at a decent speed without falling off the road I'm not too fussed, comfort is more my thing at my old age now haha, and I must admit both the Mondeo Ghia and the Elite Vectra are real comfy. Not so sure about the sportier models though.

I'm not a fan of the signum tbh, plus being a lot rarer won't be easy to find one locally.

Fecking DPFs, limiting choice once again!

Tbh, we're getting to a point where you have very little choice about DPFs and DMFs now, there isn't a newer diesel (afaik) that comes without either. One of the reasons for getting the mk4 is that the 1.9PD MK4s don't have DPFs....howver the DMF failed (near enough) instead. So really i'm gonna ignore the horror stries about those and just hope they dont fail on whatever I get lol. I will try to find something that has history of atleast one being replaced if possible.

Mondeo ftw.
Have friends who have had a few, he currently runs a 04 2.0 130bhp...gets 54mpg average.

also have a ST mondeo 2.2...they get just shy of 50mpg and not afraid to use the boost pedal.

the 2.2s can be chipped to 180/200 for pennies and still see great returns.

Mondeo doesnt look like you have resigned yourself to being an old retired grandad either.
Mondeo handles so much better too...vectra top specs handle but they handle your spine like its made of titanium

Hmm, I hear a lot about 'my friends got this and it's crap...' lol, but tbh its mostly how and where you drive that affects mpg. For example I never got less than 35mpg from my 1.8, yet SRowell never got above 25mpg iirc lol!

If the Vec really is that uncomfortable maybe its not such a good idea - see this is the kinda thing you cant really determine on a 10 minute test drive in town with the dealer next to you lol.

If I'm honest I'm not a huge fan of the looks of either car tbh, however the higher spec models do look better, ST and SRi imo look ok for what they are. And i dont mind looking like an old Grandad haha.

Imo tom if you get a mondeo dont go for the st, you'll be forever moaning about the sportyness of it. Get the ghia, ghia x, titanium or titanium x as they are the best spec and often cheaper than the st.

Dont worry about the dpf and dmf too much as any car of that era will have them fitted and they will cause issues. Swirl flaps do come off, Peugeot ones are never an issue cos pug made them so big they couldn't get sucked into the engine.

Titanium is the spec I like the look of tbh (didnt check Ghia, but my Dads Ghia X seems less specced than a titanium), stuff like auto wipers and lights even! Comes with cheap seats afaik though, and the mondeo does look a bit cheaper inside, I hate that big plasticy armrest they have for a start, not sure whether it is lower quality or not though, might just look a little worse.

I'm not sure the flaps getting sucked into the engine is the main issue on those (although it is on beemers iirc), its more to do with getting stuck (cause of the damn egr shite...when will manufacturers learn EGR soot does more harm in the long run) and then because they're stuck you lose power (either bottom end if they're open, ortop end if theyre closed) and puts into limp mode which is not ideal.

Ok, which would you choose, Mondeo or Vectra engines around 04/54 plate, but based on engine alone so forget looks and toys.

Don't need spam about the cars themselves or me or my shit HDi or anything else - just engine choices from the list please.

Guys keep it on topic please, there's a lot of crap in here about the cars themselves. Tom let me know if you want this cleaned back up.

Thanks Ed but it's OK, atleast its relevant stuff rather than what I was expecting lol...

Yep definitely ford. Not the most refined things but considering they are part psa designed, they are fairly reliable! But then again I bet you will never agree the psa build some of the most reliable Diesel engines in the world?

Wait, so you're saying get the Ford because it's like a Peugeot? Thats not the most persuasive argument here haha.

No I realise 'some' PSA diesels are good, I don't dispute that XUDs were awesome in thier time - however the 2.0 90 HDi and the 1.6 in the 307s, don't seem so good lol.

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Aren't the Vauxhall lumps from Fiat?

Nope they are just the usual GM dervs that seem to get worse and worse as they build new ones.

I was so sure of mysef that I googled it again before replying

It is a Fiat engine, same one as in the JTD-badged Alfa's...

Yup, it is indeed a Fiat lump, as you've now researched anyway lol.

I have a 130tdci 02 Mondeo.
It's actually a great car/engine. Feels quick and the mpgzzz are good if your not on boost the entire time.

Mines on 180k and still runs really well. And yeah they're chain driven.

Will probably be for sale in 3-4 months for sub 700

Yeah its those that are chain driven (and I guess the 155 is too?) but Im pretty sure Vectras are belt.

I didn't find them particularly quick, probably about the same as my HDi tbh, but I guess it depends what you're comparing it to.

3-4 months? The HDi will be lucky to last 2 weeks....having some pretty big issues with it atm. And currently I still have use of Nans front garden (whilst clearing her house out) until March 1st - so if I'm gonna break the HDi (which is the only option now really) it's gotta be done reasonably quickly. (Within 22 days! )

Plus as I said above I'm not really looking for another cheap old car but thanks for the offer.