UNI Rant

[Kezzieboy]

For the record, I always make one point when this argument gets going.

I believe whole-heartedly in education for the sake of education. Why do all degrees have to be vocational? Many of my friends are doing degrees because they want to further themselves, which is EXACTLY what they're doing, even if their degree in, for example, medieval history doesn't lead on to a specific job in later life.

And therein lies the problem, as this is completely fine for those whose parents can stump up the money for it (lucky them) but for those of us that this is very much not the case we NEED loans and grants available, at a reasonable rate in order to do this.

Awaits abuse from people with 'real jobs' lol.


Oh, and for the record, I'm doing MEng Mechanical Engineering (Automotive) at the University of Birmingham, one of the pioneering universities when it comes to oppressing and exploiting their students, with the best paid Vice-Chancellor in the country.

[Niall]

Seconded....I said from day one of 6th form that I didn't want to go to university, but did want to learn more in those two years to help me with a career. My teachers pushed and pushed, ignoring my very valid reasons for not wanting to go (my mum was sick at the time), making me feel bad for wanting a career as soon as I left school. My Dad has built his own company from career experience, not uni, and it's what I want to do to. I've always been like that. But nooooo, not good enough for the school figures!

I feel I've got the right job for me and 4 years experience behind me that is invaluable.

Exactly this! Tbh look at the likes of Richard Branson or Alan sugar. Did they go to Uni? Nope!

Stress again that I'm not dismissing Uni completely. Just don't think people should go straight from school o Uni with no concept of the real world

[Connor]

Don't get me wrong kez, if you want to learn for the sake of learning, that's fine. But least pay for that yourself, as niall says, its a privilege not a right and the tax payers shouldn't be left paying for someone else's "experience"

[Kezzieboy]

Don't get me wrong kez, if you want to learn for the sake of learning, that's fine. But least pay for that yourself, as niall says, its a privilege not a right and the tax payers shouldn't be left paying for someone else's "experience"

But Connor, I can't, that's the point.

Why should it be a privilege reserved for the wealthy?!

[Niall]

Don't get me wrong kez, if you want to learn for the sake of learning, that's fine. But least pay for that yourself, as niall says, its a privilege not a right and the tax payers shouldn't be left paying for someone else's "experience"

Thank you!

When the Uni rates went up to 9k I was annoyed but not for the same reason as everyone else. All these students protested because Uni rates went up. They failed to mention that the payback limits also changed meaning that most people will never pay back their loans.
Why should we pay from our tax money for people to go to Uni for the experience and to learn only because they have a interest in the subject.
Granted if they want to pay out of their own pockets, crack on!

[Connor]

Sorry, but tough... you already get student loans which allow you to pay the loan back once you are earning £x amount, as Ben has already said, he'll only be paying back £9 or something a month... And will never pay it all back... sorry but that's a load of bollocks...

[Niall]

Don't get me wrong kez, if you want to learn for the sake of learning, that's fine. But least pay for that yourself, as niall says, its a privilege not a right and the tax payers shouldn't be left paying for someone else's "experience"

But Connor, I can't, that's the point.

Why should it be a privilege reserved for the wealthy?!

That's like saying everyone should be bought a Aston martin by the government because it's only a privilege for the rich which is unfair.
You only buy what you can afford. Simple.

[Kezzieboy]

That's like saying everyone should be bought a Aston martin by the government because it's only a privilege for the rich which is unfair.
You only buy what you can afford. Simple.

No offence, but bollocks.

An Aston Martin benefits the nation in no way. Having an intellectually challenged and stimulated, eloquent, highly literate population can only be a good thing, and is a worthy investment.

Also the student loans systems promote social mobility on a larger scale than owt else the government give back to the population, and without it the absurd class gaps will only widen into yawning chasms. And we'll be stuck with eton twats in government forever, making the rich richer, and keeping the poor poor. Wonderful.

[Niall]

That's like saying everyone should be bought a Aston martin by the government because it's only a privilege for the rich which is unfair.
You only buy what you can afford. Simple.

No offence, but bollocks.

An Aston Martin benefits the nation in no way. Having an intellectually challenged and stimulated, eloquent, highly literate population can only be a good thing, and is a worthy investment.

Also the student loans systems promote social mobility on a larger scale than owt else the government give back to the population, and without it the absurd class gaps will only widen into yawning chasms. And we'll be stuck with eton lady garden in government forever, making the rich richer, and keeping the poor poor. Wonderful.

Rubbish. There is such a thing as having a over educated population.
Sorry but it is no ones right to go to Uni and doesn't the extremely high rate of jobless Uni students prove that Uni doesn't just get you into a job!
Secondly, you don't need to go to Uni to learn. Technically I have no qualifications what so ever ( only because I never bothered to collect my gcses) and I'm more educated in certain fields than a lot of people who work in these fields!

So your basically saying that the government should pay for people to go to Uni as they wish so that most of the population are highly educated? Brilliant loads more debt for the country that we can't pay back because all these highly educated people can't get jobs in the fields they trained in. Brilliant idea.

[procta]

I pay the Uni to basically, teach myself

i tried uni to get back into ICT about 4 years ago, i decided to self fund as there wasnt a uni grant support for the course. so with in 3 weeks, i had seen a fella who was in the ict industary pull the lecture a part over some test papers he had done. he said you wouldnt do any of those answers in the real world at all!
the lecture just used to scratch his chin every time he got stuck and tried to bull shit his way out. he basically said theres the labs do them. so there was no point in him even been there! i could have done the labs on 3 systems i had linked up at the time at home! i found i was taught better at college than at uni. as i had signed up to the same course, but only to do the server side stuff again.
so i emailed the lecture and rapped it in. told the uni that the course wasnt even worth the money and the lecture was poor. at least with the college lectures they went thru the labs with you as a class and went into more indepth stuff too. as people really took interest. but at uni people were not even there 5 mins!

[Jonny b]

Yes but a lot of students end up doing shite like media studies then end up working in a factory! I have no problem in students doing a course that is going to benefit the economy/counrtry but how how many actually are/do

[n0v0s]

So, i shouldn't be going to Uni?

Because without a loan, i could not afford it. People better not get sick then, unless they can afford it.. i think thats fair enough?

[Eeyore]

For the record, I always make one point when this argument gets going.

I believe whole-heartedly in education for the sake of education. Why do all degrees have to be vocational? Many of my friends are doing degrees because they want to further themselves, which is EXACTLY what they're doing, even if their degree in, for example, medieval history doesn't lead on to a specific job in later life.

And therein lies the problem, as this is completely fine for those whose parents can stump up the money for it (lucky them) but for those of us that this is very much not the case we NEED loans and grants available, at a reasonable rate in order to do this.

Awaits abuse from people with 'real jobs' lol.


Oh, and for the record, I'm doing MEng Mechanical Engineering (Automotive) at the University of Birmingham, one of the pioneering universities when it comes to oppressing and exploiting their students, with the best paid Vice-Chancellor in the country.

^^ exactly this.

Don't get me wrong kez, if you want to learn for the sake of learning, that's fine. But least pay for that yourself, as niall says, its a privilege not a right and the tax payers shouldn't be left paying for someone else's "experience"

^^ not this. If tax payers didnt put money in so we didnt have student loans then there is noway that i would have £18k+ to be able to do a degree. So what? i should have had to work in a half decent job for two years.

No offence, but bollocks.

An Aston Martin benefits the nation in no way. Having an intellectually challenged and stimulated, eloquent, highly literate population can only be a good thing, and is a worthy investment.

Also the student loans systems promote social mobility on a larger scale than owt else the government give back to the population, and without it the absurd class gaps will only widen into yawning chasms. And we'll be stuck with eton lady garden in government forever, making the rich richer, and keeping the poor poor. Wonderful.

and this^^ exactly this! Its like when people said we should get rid of the monarchy becaus the queen does nothing... well it doesnt matter that she does nothing its the fact she is there which gives us vague focus as a nation and rakes in far more money in tourist stuff than the royal family actually costs! Admittedly there is a limit but tbh it all works pretty well how it is!

Rubbish. There is such a thing as having a over educated population.
Sorry but it is no ones right to go to Uni and doesn't the extremely high rate of jobless Uni students prove that Uni doesn't just get you into a job!
Secondly, you don't need to go to Uni to learn. Technically I have no qualifications what so ever ( only because I never bothered to collect my gcses) and I'm more educated in certain fields than a lot of people who work in these fields!

bollox. Sure there are jobless uni students but theyve got much higher prospects than the jobless uneducated people who must be at least 5 times larger than the jobless graduate population. Not having a go at you Niall as anyone can see you have got experience and all but there are thousands of people out there who do f*ck all and have no experience or any of the qualities which employers are after!

[Niall]

FYI queen brings in billions a year in tourist money....

Srowell you talk crap. I have no qualifications above gcse. Compare me to someone my age who has just rolled out of a Uni with a electrical engineering degree. Who gets the job?

We need under educated people in this country otherwise everyone will walk out of Uni thinking there better than everyone else. No one will do the low end jobs and everyone will be whining because they can't get a job working or a top company which then means that unemployment goes up because these students think their better than working as a bin man for example!

Oh and I agree there are people out there that literally do bugger all but they don't really come into this conversation.

[n0v0s]

I pay the Uni to basically, teach myself

i tried uni to get back into ICT about 4 years ago, i decided to self fund as there wasnt a uni grant support for the course. so with in 3 weeks, i had seen a fella who was in the ict industary pull the lecture a part over some test papers he had done. he said you wouldnt do any of those answers in the real world at all!
the lecture just used to scratch his chin every time he got stuck and tried to bull shit his way out. he basically said theres the labs do them. so there was no point in him even been there! i could have done the labs on 3 systems i had linked up at the time at home! i found i was taught better at college than at uni. as i had signed up to the same course, but only to do the server side stuff again.
so i emailed the lecture and rapped it in. told the uni that the course wasnt even worth the money and the lecture was poor. at least with the college lectures they went thru the labs with you as a class and went into more indepth stuff too. as people really took interest. but at uni people were not even there 5 mins!

I know exactly what you mean! There are some courses at Manchester where i've heard similiar things about but students who stick at the course always have other motives - i.e. the 'uni experience' ... take away their loans and the vast majority would be long gone back home.

I have two good friends who are studying accounting. Ones at Bham uni and is in his final year doing well. Another is doing a couse called ACT at a further education plate. Now the ACT dude is in some ways soo much better off due to the practical nature of his job giving him the experience that is essential in accounting. Graduates often find it difficult to compete as they lack this experience and their expensive paperwork doesn't qualify them as being good at their job..

I unfortunately haven't a choice. My course revolves around a new concept of medical teaching called PBL - problem based learning. Every uni in the country uses it to a limited extent but at Manchester, we use it solely. It's basically DIY doctors. When i say teach myself. Its pretty much that. We get given a real life scenario of someone with an illness. An account of symptoms and tests and treatment .. i.e. diabetes.. then we have to go learn EVERYTHING about that case in order to understand wtf is going on.. all in a week. Little guidance is given compared to the more traditional course where they give ample lectures and learning material.. If i learn the wrong shit, well thats my fuk up. I can do as much as i want or as little.. its up to me what i read. Unfortunately, i can't just slap a white coat on if i learn this at home soooo... the Uni gets my money to give me my piece of paper saying i'm 'safe' to practice

[Niall]

See I've got no problem with tax payers money going towards what your doing. We need doctors and you can't exactly practice on the job!
I don't think tax money should be use for people who go to Uni just because they want to.

[Ruan]

I'm just going to have a proper rant a second...

Why is it that the government believes that when you're 18, you can go to jail, you can serve in the forces, you can be taken to court, you could have been thrown out on the streets at age 16.... Yet still if you go to university, they want to know your parents income details so they can decide how much grant they give?

Just because you have parents who are "better off", why does it mean that they are forced to pay for your education - this hasn't been the case all the way through primary and secondary, why now - education either is something that IS made available to everyone, or ISN'T... There shouldn't be something that dictates that the people who's parents are well off should pay their way through and the people who's parents are NOT earning as much, to not have to contribute?

I believe it's completely fair that people who are at the lower end of the scale, who's parents CANNOT afford to, shouldn't have to, but the people in the middle area are worst affected, they are the genuine people who's parents earn a middle ground wage, work hard, often struggle to make ends meet, yet are penalised for earning too much, so their parents have to pay for them to go to university... They could earn less and save money because they don't have to pay their childrens way through university...

Extreme case - What's to say your parents wanted nothing to do with you, aren't paying your way through University, but you still live with them - you're f*cked, you cannot go, there's no feasible way you can...

[/Rant]

[Niall]

I agree I don't think your parents wealth should affect it because I think that the only people that should be getting government loans (not to say you can't take out a personal loan) are the people doing essential jobs like doctors, lawyers, dentists ect.
We are one of the only Countries in the world who seem to think that you will go nowhere without a degree and that everyone should go to uni. Personally I think that's down to the labour party saying everyone should have this education when really, it was never going to work!
Schooling is enough to get you out into the world and start from the bottom of the ladder. So many people seem to have the wool pulled over their eyes and think that if they go to uni, they can skip the bottom of the ladder and go straight into a 40k+ job. And then when they come out of uni and their on the dull for 2 years or working in mcdonnalds, they blame everyone else because the job wasn't there for them. Thanks to the labour party who told everyone the job would be there!

[Grant]

LOL

I do not have the brain capacity to contribute further this late at night. This argument always has, and always will be around. Depends what side of the fence you sitting on....

[Ruan]

I completely agree on the wool over the eyes thing...

I did 2 and a bit years at Uni... Worked really hard in my first 2 years - 2:1s both years, didn't just piss it away - Hated it, realised I was wasting my time... I'm glad I did, I can safely say, there's not been one job I've seen that I've thought - I WISH I had a degree... I'm more than happy that I'm on the job ladder, I may not be as well paid, but I've got more life experience and at least I know what I DON'T want to do...

[Niall]

The labour party (well tony Blair) reckoned everyone should go to uni, the uni will tell you that you will do better than everyone else because they want your money (their only a business at the end of the day) and the schools want you to go to uni to improve their figures. These people are pulling the wool over so many people's eyes.

What makes a uni student better at my job than me?

[Dan!]

LOUD NOISES

[Niall]

LOUD NOISES

You getting as bad as 2endeddildo! Haha

[Grant]

What makes a uni student better at my job than me?

They're not you

[Dan!]

What makes a uni student better at my job than me?

Ebay coilovers?

[MrsMoonstone]

Might not be making a new point here but here's how I see it:

The issue is that there is no proper alternative to going to uni in the UK. In Germany (sorry) you still have proper apprenticeships that are respected, well paid, competitive, and high quality for teenagers leaving school at 16. So in the UK lots of people struggle through school to the end and end up in uni courses they don't enjoy/don't do well in.

As an EU student studying part of my degrees in Britain I don't feel I can comment on the loans system but I get annoyed at the students who see uni as one huge piss-up and hence ruin everyone's image of students. After five years in uni I'm now in a full-time job and I have to say the job is a walk in the park compared to uni. I worked my arse off, said goodbye to my social life, lived off very little money (funded myself out of savings) but I reaped the awards and now am where I wanted to be. And all along I had to listen to people (both folk who had been to uni themselves and those who hadn't, so not generalising here) tell me how easy I have it and that they hate how students only get drunk and party... Well, I didn't and I still loved uni but then I'm an academically minded person so it was what I wanted.

Not sure where my point is but now I've written too much to just delete!

[Niall]

Apprenticeships are a great idea tbf! I know they are becoming more popular again but we need more of them. You end up with a qualification, your doing the job, your not racking up thousands in debt. Win win.

[mark_airey]

Apprenticeships are a great idea tbf! I know they are becoming more popular again but we need more of them. You end up with a qualification, your doing the job, your not racking up thousands in debt. Win win.

^^ this

[MrsMoonstone]

Apprenticeships are a great idea tbf! I know they are becoming more popular again but we need more of them. You end up with a qualification, your doing the job, your not racking up thousands in debt. Win win.

^^ this

As an alternative to uni, yes...

[mark_airey]

As I see this you don't really come into this debate in the same way as you have funded your own way and not been given money by the government which is what this argument appears to be about.

I am all for a good argument but I can't really contribute to this one so will continue to watch