Any sparkies about? House wiring question

[lewisdmz]

Hello,

Good to see the club is still going strong! Looking for some independent advice on house wiring.

We're looking at buying a house and the survey has come back that the fusebox is the old style where you actually have to change the wire in the fuse (no RCDs).

This would suggest the rest of the wiring is going to be equally dated, but aside from being a bit of a pain in the arse to change, is this an issue to be concerned about?

There are other issues on the survey so we're going to try and re-negotiate the price, but I just wanted to some independent opinions before I speak to the estate agents.

Thanks in advance

[WiNgNuTz]

Well, I'm not a sparks, but I'd be inclined to think if the fuseboard is that old, theres a pretty good chance you'll be looking at a rewire, if not purely for peace of mind!

[daddyfixit]

if the house survey sees an old type fusebox, they say the house needs re-wiring as a condition of you being given the mortgage. when I bought this house we moved in and it was re-wired the next 2 weeks while we went on holiday---the sparkies were cavemen and the house was a shithole when we returned...........apparently they could not get a plasterer in before we got back (utter lies). expect £1500+ for a 3 bedroom semi ???

[cully]

survey was probably walk past tick box type of thing
i would ask for the rewire cost off the asking price or get them to get it done certifacated and offer the asking price less any other stuff thats been found

[306carter]

In the North you would be looking at around £1800-£2200 for a full rewire and test.

You could get away with an upgrade this would consist of a new mains board with RCDs / RCBOs all bonding if needed ect to bring it up to standard plus a test. This could cost around £500-£800.

Personally I'd allow for a full rewire.

[lewisdmz]

House is a Victorian terrace (2 bed). I think the first action is to see if they have had an electrical condition report recently, as this may highlight if there is anything to be concerned about.

[Niall]

You don't need a new box. Just get RCDs that fit in place of the fuses. Our house has recently had a EICR and passed absolutely fine like this
Really though, it does need a new box. For your average 3 bed with a 8 way board, I'd expect no more than 4-500 for a change and that will also really highlight if you need a re wire from the testing. None of this EICR take a few face plates off bollocks.

[Toms306]

My Nans bungalow (late 60s) has the original fuse wire board... I've not seen one break at all! Definitely not in the last 3 years as she'd have to call us to replace it... Much less of a pain than switches that trip out every time you pop a light bulb.

[Paul Baldwin]

That type of board does not have to mean a re-wire but budget for worst case scenario. As Niall says the fuses are ok IF covered by rcd protection but as an MK 10way board with everything in it is £75 quid or so from Screwfix it's a no brainer to get it changed.
The cables may be fine depending on age and type but you need to take the board cover off to visually check them and the only sure way of knowing is to measure their resistance. If you have baton holder light fittings with screws holding the top to the base that's a real indicator of the installation being pretty old for one.

If you can put up some photos of the board and fittings I can give you a fair account visually, I used to work as an independent electrical tester

A sticker on the board saying the property has been tested at some point is also a good sign that it was at least passable at some point in the past. Hopefully it's not as bad as a place I saw recently! It was ex rental and has just been sold and is a complete and utter fire hazard/shock hazard/DIY abortion of a job!!! Someone just spent 210K on a 2 bed dooer upper and it needs a total re-wire asap. It did however look like a nice tidy house with an old board before the whole place had to be ripped to bits ;-)

[toseland]

My Nans bungalow (late 60s) has the original fuse wire board...  I've not seen one break at all!  Definitely not in the last 3 years as she'd have to call us to replace it...  Much less of a pain than switches that trip out every time you pop a light bulb.

but also the fact that your body can quite happily conduct 13 amps with enough resistance not to reach the burn point of the fuse wire,  whilst setting fire to your hair and boiling your vital fluids, ...


i would much rather have RCDs that need resetting every time a fuse blows thankyou

[Toms306]

Stop sticking your fingers in sockets then.

[Niall]

My Nans bungalow (late 60s) has the original fuse wire board...  I've not seen one break at all!  Definitely not in the last 3 years as she'd have to call us to replace it...  Much less of a pain than switches that trip out every time you pop a light bulb.

but also the fact that your body can quite happily conduct 13 amps with enough resistance not to reach the burn point of the fuse wire,  whilst setting fire to yoru hear and boiling your vital fluids, ...


i would much rather have RCDs that need resetting every time a fuse blows thankyou

This. Its not just about protecting from damaging equipment plugged in or the cabling its self. Its about protecting you! 

[zx_volcane]

My Nans bungalow (late 60s) has the original fuse wire board...  I've not seen one break at all!  Definitely not in the last 3 years as she'd have to call us to replace it...  Much less of a pain than switches that trip out every time you pop a light bulb.

but also the fact that your body can quite happily conduct 13 amps with enough resistance not to reach the burn point of the fuse wire,  whilst setting fire to yoru hear and boiling your vital fluids, ...


i would much rather have RCDs that need resetting every time a fuse blows thankyou

^ couldn't have put it better myself

[Toms306]

Well that was taken more seriously than intended.

I should add, we don't have RCDs here, just 1980s trip switches that allow enough constant overload to melt stuff but trip out when a bulb blows....really useful.

[r3k1355]

If you're negotiating on the price of a property then obviously make it seem as bad as possible, to give you the most leverage.

So:

Full rewire (£2500)
Plastering (£500)
Redecorating (£?)

[lewisdmz]

That type of board does not have to mean a re-wire but budget for worst case scenario. As Niall says the fuses are ok IF covered by rcd protection but as an MK 10way board with everything in it is £75 quid or so from Screwfix it's a no brainer to get it changed.
The cables may be fine depending on age and type but you need to take the board cover off to visually check them and the only sure way of knowing is to measure their resistance. If you have baton holder light fittings with screws holding the top to the base that's a real indicator of the installation being pretty old for one.

If you can put up some photos of the board and fittings I can give you a fair account visually, I used to work as an independent electrical tester

A sticker on the board saying the property has been tested at some point is also a good sign that it was at least passable at some point in the past. Hopefully it's not as bad as a place I saw recently! It was ex rental and has just been sold and is a complete and utter fire hazard/shock hazard/DIY abortion of a job!!! Someone just spent 210K on a 2 bed dooer upper and it needs a total re-wire asap. It did however look like a nice tidy house with an old board before the whole place had to be ripped to bits ;-)

Hi Paul,

Thanks, I think I jumped to the worst case scenario assuming that the wiring would almost definitely need doing because of the age of the fusebox. From what I have since read online, if the wiring is pvc coated rather than the old black rubber type then it will likely be fine. We have had a quote for putting a new RCD in and we're fine with that, but re-wiring this perfectly decorated house would be a major issue.

We've had some documents through from the vendors and they have had no electrical testing carried out in the last 9 years. I'll email the surveyor tomorrow as I know he took loads of photos, hopefully one with the board cover off.

We looked around some awful ex-rentals, too many tight fisted landlords looking for a cash cow / cheap fixes, would hate to be the next owner of one...

[toseland]

all properties need to be sold with an Electrical safety certificate dont they?

[r3k1355]

all properties need to be sold with an Electrical safety certificate dont they?

Only if they've had work done IIRC, unless it's changed in the last couple of years.

Our place would have never passed electrical safety when we bought it 

[Paul Baldwin]

Old black rubber is a code 1. That basically means it needs immediate attention. Rubber cable degrades to the point that it's a fire hazard basically.
PVC cable has been around for a long time now in various forms. Pre metric, stranded tin coated and even aluminium twin and earth still exist in many properties, some of it may test out ok insulation wise but some of it wont. You wont know what's in many installs unless you actually check inside the board and remove fittings.
I bet you a pound to a pinch of shit the surveyor wont have taken the cover off as they are not qualified or competent or insured to do it