Find my sister a car.

[Kezzieboy]

Morning chaps,

My little sister is looking to upgrade from her trusty Micra and has asked my advice, so I thought I'd pass the buck to you lot!

She has a number of stipulations:
Maximum budget £1500
Small Hatchback (no bigger than a 306)
5 Doors
Cheap to run (tax, insurance, repairs, economy)
Reliability with the above in mind
Best spec available (i.e. electric goodies, nice interior stuff generally)
Within ~100miles of Launceston, Cornwall (more limiting than you'd think!)


So far I've suggested small diesel stuff, mostly cars equipped with the 1.4 HDi/TDCi engine as I've heard good things about them these are as follows:

Ford Fiesta TDCi - Good, but can be a little pricey/hard to find
Peugeot 206 1.4HDi - Doesn't like the styling (my other sister has one
Citroen C3 1.4 HDi - Likes these, but I think the interior/spec on them seems a bit poor
Renault Clio 1.5DCi - Likes these too, hard to find in 5-door and diesel though.

She's also been looking at Fabias and Polos, but these will likely be petrol models for the money she's spending, and as she'll be driving back and forth from uni in Brum a few times a year I suggested a diesel might be a better idea. The little diesels seem to get impressive economy around town, too, so seem like a win win.

So, anything I'm missing? Any advice/reviews/opinions/hearsay on the cars I've listed?

Cheers,
Kez

[Connor]

Your 306?

[Iceman299]

Yeah, your 306 fits the bill

Or a few people on here seem to like the mk4 golf

[1616six]

Ibiza TDI over any of that you've listed. It's virtually a Polo with a decent price tag.

Fiesta if any of the above.

[C.A.R.]

You say she will be doing the ocassional long journey, but how many miles on average does she do per year?

Financially a diesel doesnt' make much sense unless you're doing at least 10,000 miles.

However...

The area you are in also features a landscape which isn't very...flat. So you may want the extra shove from a turbo diesel.

Hmmm...

[Iceman299]

Financially a diesel doesnt' make much sense unless you're doing at least 10,000 miles.

How did you work that one out?

[Kezzieboy]

Your 306?

Is going to be my girlfriends car

Yeah, your 306 fits the bill

Or a few people on here seem to like the mk4 golf

As above, and Golfs command a daft premium, so to get a comparable golf it'll be a few years older and have vastly higher price tag than an equivalent peugeot/ford/citroen/renault

Ibiza TDI over any of that you've listed. It's virtually a Polo with a decent price tag.

Fiesta if any of the above.

Ibiza might be worth considering, I feel it may still be a bit too expensive, plus it's probably not as good on juice as the smaller diesels

You say she will be doing the ocassional long journey, but how many miles on average does she do per year?

Financially a diesel doesnt' make much sense unless you're doing at least 10,000 miles.

However...

The area you are in also features a landscape which isn't very...flat. So you may want the extra shove from a turbo diesel.

Hmmm...

How'd you work that out?! Maybe for a new car, but second hand I don't see how that makes any sense? And she's coped alright with the Micra, so power isn't an issue, I just don't see how a diesel that does 60+MPG and has £30 a year tax can not be cheaper than a petrol in every way?

[Toms306]

C1/107/aygo

Ideal small girly cars and the older ones are in dropping into your price range, epically cheap being £20 tax and only group 1 insurance. My sister seems to get on with hers and despite having no idea how to drive economically and only usually doing rush hour town and b road always gets above 55mpg...and of course petrol is cheaper too. Reliable as well, unlike the 1.4HDi which is hit and miss with reliability.

Only thing is they're a bit cheap inside, but go for a top spec one and you get alloys, aid con and half leathers etc.

[Kezzieboy]

C1/107/aygo

Ideal small girly cars and the older ones are in dropping into your price range, epically cheap being £20 tax and only group 1 insurance. My sister seems to get on with hers and despite having no idea how to drive economically and only usually doing rush hour town and b road always gets above 55mpg...and of course petrol is cheaper too. Reliable as well, unlike the 1.4HDi which is hit and miss with reliability.

Only thing is they're a bit cheap inside, but go for a top spec one and you get alloys, aid con and half leathers etc.

Probably too small, can you get them in 5-door flavour?! And what do you mean by the 1.4 reliability? I've heard that the 1.6 is risky, but not seen anything about the 1.4.

[THE_Liam]

306?

[Toms306]

Yeah you get them in 5 door. You said she didn't want anything bigger than a 306, there was no minimum size. .

The 1.4 is just as risky as the 1.6 for turbos and injector seals and stuff. Some are great and have no issues for years, others cause constant issues. We have a 1.4 and 1.6 HDi in the house. The 1.4 economy isnt that great either, it never gets above 50mpg in the fiesta here!

[Kezzieboy]

306?

She's not a fan, put off by me, my sister and my brother all having owned them.

Yeah you get them in 5 door.  You said she didn't want anything bigger than a 306, there was no minimum size. .

The 1.4 is just as risky as the 1.6 for turbos and injector seals and stuff.  Some are great and have no issues for years, others cause constant issues.  We have a 1.4 and 1.6 HDi in the house.  The 1.4 economy isnt that great either, it never gets above 50mpg in the fiesta here!

Interesting, not something I'd heard about, and my friends 1.4HDi 206 never goes BELOW 50MPG.

[C.A.R.]

Financially a diesel doesnt' make much sense unless you're doing at least 10,000 miles.

How did you work that one out?

It's widely acknowledged that because of multiple factors the 'break even' is quite high when it comes to diesel vs. petrol.

People immediately dismiss this as nonsense because they don't look at the argument fairly. When comparing two cars, with equal mileage, of equal condition and age - the diesel will almost certainly be more expensive, sometimes by a lot more.

The cost of fuel for diesel is higher, whilst the tax is often lower. It is important to carefully work out whether you are actually saving any money or are 'better off' in a diesel. Then, there is the potential cost for service items - always more complex and therefore more expensive to replace on a diesel car. This sort of maintenance can instantly skew your running costs and make it uneconomical to run a diesel.

However...

This is a 306 forum, and it is widely accepted that the 306 is a pretty reliable little rust bucket, with residual values struggling to see 4-figures on any model then the cost of the car definitely has to be considered as a factor. You can't lose much money on a car if you didn't spend much in the first place, right? Perhaps this is why the diesel vs. petrol model doesn't really work on these forums and is usually met with hostility from diesel owners doing 6,000 miles a year on vegetable oil!

[Kezzieboy]

I just think that when you're talking about £1500 bangers it makes little difference. Also, diesel engines are often under lower stress, so the mileage argument doesn't really sick.

[Iceman299]

Financially a diesel doesnt' make much sense unless you're doing at least 10,000 miles.

How did you work that one out?

It's widely acknowledged that because of multiple factors the 'break even' is quite high when it comes to diesel vs. petrol.

People immediately dismiss this as nonsense because they don't look at the argument fairly. When comparing two cars, with equal mileage, of equal condition and age - the diesel will almost certainly be more expensive, sometimes by a lot more.

The cost of fuel for diesel is higher, whilst the tax is often lower. It is important to carefully work out whether you are actually saving any money or are 'better off' in a diesel. Then, there is the potential cost for service items - always more complex and therefore more expensive to replace on a diesel car. This sort of maintenance can instantly skew your running costs and make it uneconomical to run a diesel.

However...

This is a 306 forum, and it is widely accepted that the 306 is a pretty reliable little rust bucket, with residual values struggling to see 4-figures on any model then the cost of the car definitely has to be considered as a factor. You can't lose much money on a car if you didn't spend much in the first place, right? Perhaps this is why the diesel vs. petrol model doesn't really work on these forums and is usually met with hostility from diesel owners doing 6,000 miles a year on vegetable oil!

What is more complex about servicing a diesel??
Only real differences between a petrol and diesel is the fuel used, compression ratios and being ci/si engine.

Diesel is ~5p a litre more but gives a lot more mpg and tax is cheaper.

Newer diesels with dpf's can cause issues when not driven long distances, so people driving a couple of miles a day should maybe consider a petrol.

So i still don't see where these extra expenses for diesels come from...

[hbomb1905]

If she is pottering around cornwall and doing a couple of long journeys a year i'd just buy a petrol. Less to worry about reliability wise and you'll get a nicer car for the money. Mk6 fiesta 1.4 zetec would do the job perfectly.

[1616six]

IMO the petrol/diesel argument is completely invalid with a £1500 budget.

OP hasn't even asked for opinions on whether she should get a petrol or diesel.

[Iceman299]

Why not just ask her which car she wants and then get her the best/most reliable variant of it?

[Kezzieboy]

If she is pottering around cornwall and doing a couple of long journeys a year i'd just buy a petrol. Less to worry about reliability wise and you'll get a nicer car for the money. Mk6 fiesta 1.4 zetec would do the job perfectly.

Her driving will be half in Birmingham, half in Cornwall (where one doesn't really potter as everything is about 20 miles away) and then the journey between the two 6 times a year minimum, probably more like ten. 

What is there on a diesel that should be worried about? Modern petrol are just as complex, unless you by an inefficient old PFI. 

IMO the petrol/diesel argument is completely invalid with a £1500 budget.

OP hasn't even asked for opinions on whether she should get a petrol or diesel.

Implicitly I have, actually, I assume diesel is a better choice, but am happy to be proven wrong. 

Why not just ask her which car she wants and then get her the best/most reliable variant of it?

Because she doesn't know. Like 90% of the motoring population she doesn't care really, just wants it to be cheap and reliable. 

[Iceman299]

She must like the look of a certain car, even if it just means it's "pretty" etc lol

Would save you a lot of hassle searching different makes and models if you had more of an idea.

Only thing with diesels is to factor in annual mileage and what you would save in fuel costs to the extra money you'd pay buying a decent one.

[Kezzieboy]

Her criteria limit it fairly well anyway, in terms of size, 5 door etc. I hoped by leaving it open ended it would allow people to suggest what is best for the money, rather than limiting it completely to begin with.

She's going to look at a C3 HDi this week, we'll see how that goes.

[Toms306]

Lol at the petrol vs diesel argument that CAR brings into all these threads.

It IS true of newer cars, I wish the ecoboost petrol Fiestas were old enough to be a similar price to my 1.6 TDCi Focus...I'd have already swapped it for one if they were, the petrol would be considerably cheaper in all aspects apart from purchase price.

However, at £1500, you're not looking at many economical petrols, the 1.3 square shape Fiesta for example, terrible mpg and high tax due to that. Diesel servicing costs roughly the same in my experience. Yes some need 'special' oil, but so do newer petrols, Mums uses something like 0w20!

So really it comes down to either buying a petrol which will cost more to run, but isn't likely to break anything expensive. OR buy a diesel which costs less to run, but all your savings will be wiped out IF something like a DMF or turbo fails... You're f*cked either way basically.

[THE_Liam]

Basically, buy your sister an 80's 1.1 205. It will cost nothing, never break, cost sod all to fuel, insure and service, and be a damn sight better to drive and more relaible than any modern shite!

[Tartak]

I recommend 306

[Ruan]

Financially a diesel doesnt' make much sense unless you're doing at least 10,000 miles.

How did you work that one out?

It's widely acknowledged that because of multiple factors the 'break even' is quite high when it comes to diesel vs. petrol.

People immediately dismiss this as nonsense because they don't look at the argument fairly. When comparing two cars, with equal mileage, of equal condition and age - the diesel will almost certainly be more expensive, sometimes by a lot more.

The cost of fuel for diesel is higher, whilst the tax is often lower. It is important to carefully work out whether you are actually saving any money or are 'better off' in a diesel. Then, there is the potential cost for service items - always more complex and therefore more expensive to replace on a diesel car. This sort of maintenance can instantly skew your running costs and make it uneconomical to run a diesel.

However...

This is a 306 forum, and it is widely accepted that the 306 is a pretty reliable little rust bucket, with residual values struggling to see 4-figures on any model then the cost of the car definitely has to be considered as a factor. You can't lose much money on a car if you didn't spend much in the first place, right? Perhaps this is why the diesel vs. petrol model doesn't really work on these forums and is usually met with hostility from diesel owners doing 6,000 miles a year on vegetable oil!

I agree with both sides of the argument...

From my experience - even though it might actually be a little cheaper to purchase a petrol car, slightly more to fuel, but slightly less to service - it's the resale that kills it for me..

I know for a fact that people will snap up a 306 HDi in no time at all, especially if in good condition! They're in mega high demand!

Go try do the same for a 1.4/1.6/1.8 petrol car, nobody wants them, because they know they're pretty vile on fuel etc... People will always pay a premium for a "cheap to run" diesel car... Same with my V50, my car instantly has another £1-1.5k (on a car that's probably worth £3.5k!!!) on the price PURELY because it's a diesel! Plus the fact that I know that even though the petrol models are "worth" a little less, they're even more of a bastard to sell - you've got to find a buyer!

But it DOES mean if you're in the market for a slightly thirstier petrol model, because you prefer the sound/revs/fits with your religion/makes you feel fuzzy/think you're ken block etc you can get some cracking deals on them.

[Kezzieboy]

Lol at the petrol vs diesel argument that CAR brings into all these threads.

It IS true of newer cars, I wish the ecoboost petrol Fiestas were old enough to be a similar price to my 1.6 TDCi Focus...I'd have already swapped it for one if they were, the petrol would be considerably cheaper in all aspects apart from purchase price.

However, at £1500, you're not looking at many economical petrols, the 1.3 square shape Fiesta for example, terrible mpg and high tax due to that.  Diesel servicing costs roughly the same in my experience.  Yes some need 'special' oil, but so do newer petrols, Mums uses something like 0w20!

So really it comes down to either buying a petrol which will cost more to run, but isn't likely to break anything expensive.  OR buy a diesel which costs less to run, but all your savings will be wiped out IF something like a DMF or turbo fails...  You're f*cked either way basically.

I know right. And a lot of small petrol cars have serious reliability issues too, so it's not all gravy there either (headgaskets being a common one across all manner of engines!)

Basically, buy your sister an 80's 1.1 205. It will cost nothing, never break, cost sod all to fuel, insure and service, and be a damn sight better to drive and more relaible than any modern shite!

Unless you want electric anything, modern air conditioning, a car without major rust issues (it's going to have lived in Cornwall most of it's life, remember), or something that your average young person will recognise as style. I agree with most of your arguments about old cars, but the aren't the answer to EVERY question. 10yo cars offer a great balance of value for money and technological advances.

I agree with both sides of the argument...

From my experience - even though it might actually be a little cheaper to purchase a petrol car, slightly more to fuel, but slightly less to service - it's the resale that kills it for me..

I know for a fact that people will snap up a 306 HDi in no time at all, especially if in good condition! They're in mega high demand!

Go try do the same for a 1.4/1.6/1.8 petrol car, nobody wants them, because they know they're pretty vile on fuel etc... People will always pay a premium for a "cheap to run" diesel car... Same with my V50, my car instantly has another £1-1.5k (on a car that's probably worth £3.5k!!!) on the price PURELY because it's a diesel! Plus the fact that I know that even though the petrol models are "worth" a little less, they're even more of a bastard to sell - you've got to find a buyer!

But it DOES mean if you're in the market for a slightly thirstier petrol model, because you prefer the sound/revs/fits with your religion/makes you feel fuzzy/think you're ken block etc you can get some cracking deals on them.

Exactly, my T5 was silly cheap, because it's a big thirsty petrol. Makes little difference to me as I'm only likely to do about 6k miles in the next 12 months, and can eek reasonable economy out of pretty much anything anyway.

---

Also, forgot to mention, she's looked at these two over the last couple days:

C3 No1

C3 No2

Apparantly the blue one was really tidy, it's the 16v HDi, with 90bhp. Grey/Purple one less so, so she's made an offer on the blue one and is waiting to hear back. She's being f*cked around by insurance though, as ever. Is there any way of changing cars mid-policy without getting utterly f*cked over?

[Iceman299]

I average about 3/4 changes per insurance year lol normally just pay £20 admin fee and get money back or pay a little extra depending on what im changing to

[bigcheez2k3]

I changed cars 3-4 times on one policy and never got charged anything.

[Kezzieboy]

What insurers are you guys with?

[Toms306]

I usually get refunds when changing cars lol. Have had a couple where I've paid extra though. Think the most extra was about £60 to cover nearly a year as changed early. Admiral group as always lol. I also like the fact they have an internet update service, so you can see what it'll cost without having to phone up!