205 Hdi

[dieselgeek]

Hello all, new to the forum thought its about time I put up some pics of my baby.
Not strictly a project as its a finished working/running car, but sort of is a project as I just keep playing and upgrading things.

Long story short Ive had the 306 hdi dturbo for about 7 years, had the 205 for about 4 years or so. Originally wanted to just put the dw10 into the 205 but thinking about it realised I also needed uprated driveshafts, hubs, brakes, suspension etc so became obvious I needed to use the 306 subframe to hang all the bits off, then I could use all the drive components designed to go with the dw10 and everything would work as it was intended to in the 306 but with the 205 bodyshell.

When I put the cars next to each other and measured things carefully it was obvious that the 306 parts wouldnt fit, it just wasnt going to happen but I decided to do it anyway..

To do the basic conversion took about 2 weeks of evenigs/weekends but it was probably more like 3 months before I was driving it properly, and worth every second of it

Weight after the conversion was 815kg, the dw10 is a typical 'stage 1', I love these motors and it goes really well with the lighter bodyshell, I reckon this makes it about 200kg lighter than the 306 which was a stripped out 2 door (maybe someone whose weighed their hdi dturby could confirm?)
The handling is 'committed' when driven fast but thats not really the point of this build for me, its just about putting a smile on my face and she does that alright

There were of course a lot of issues with the build, it was stiff as **** being on coilies designed for 306 weight, and the 306 rad stuck so far out of the car that it looked frankly ridiculous, definitely wasnt a pretty thing to look at.. Being 306 width at the front also meant that half the tyre was sticking out on each side. So I decided at the end of that summer to take her off the road and sort it properly, including putting the 306 beam on to match the rear width to the front, proper widetrack jobby

3 years later here I am, still trying to 'finish' the car properly. She runs and drives etc all without fault, but I want to pass an mot without the inspector realising that its not a standard car. Oem is what I'm aiming for so thats what I'm spending the time doing, just getting everything neat and tidy and making more work for myself.
I've even bought another 205 to scavenge bits that I chopped up on the first 205 like the bumpers and some interior trim bits.

Love my little Peugeot but its getting time to drive her soon instead of just playing. Done over 30,000 miles with this car with 306 and 205 miles combined so lots of history for me.

Will upload some photos to go with this, but bear with me as Im not really a computer person. Will get some pics up of the original build aswell so you can see how daft a 306 rad looks on a 205

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The clocks just about fit without the surround and I think look ok - not too modern. Will be sticking some perspex or similar over the top to try and get that oem style

[WiNgNuTz]

Wow, that looks snug in there!

Keen to see more of the build though, bring it on!

[dieselgeek]

This was my 306 Hdi Dturbo, possibly the best all round car I've ever owned narrowly beating the xsara picasso which was unreasonably good but incredibly bad too look at.
The whole black/tinted thing was ok when I was 20 I suppose but doesn't do it for me anymore, much prefer a nice standard looking 205

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Wow, that looks snug in there!

Keen to see more of the build though, bring it on!

Its very snug! Battery had to go in the back but the important thing is that the gearbox and aux belt don't quite touch the body.

Will try and be organised with some pics to give an idea of how the build went rather than just random uploading, but trawling through years worth of folders on the comp is taking some time

[Uberderv]

Good stuff, I'm surprised you fitted the ABS system. I've been doing the same conversion for ages just ain't got the dosh to mot it etc....

I'm guessing it's about 125bhp? In an 815kg car must be a reet hoot

[Piggy]

Yeah proper effort with the abs...
I would have carefully placed that in the caring hands of mr dustbin!!

Nice work though!

[dieselgeek]

Yea know what you mean about the abs but I just wasn't sure what to do about it.. in the end I couldn't make a decision so just plumbed it in and now at least I have the choice to use it or not. I think its tidier in real life than the pic with the 6 lines and definitely helps the oem look by completely hiding the very serious gearbox mount

Should have around 125hp but never had it checked, that lovely dw10 kick of torque from low in the revs is great but whats surprising is how much the top end kicks in with less weight to pull along


Uberderv get it done! Worth every penny for those sunny summer b-road moments...

[Poodle]

Love it! Be interested to see how it goes. For comparison, my stripped out five door 306 (dash, front seats and roof lining were pretty much all that was left) weighed 1150kg, so you've lost a good 300kg there.

[Piggy]

1150kg all stripped poodle?!

My car weighed 1180kg with nothing stripped! That includes amps, a sub, 2 batteries, the heavier 2.1 engine etc etc

[welshpug]

top tip, if you want it to handle bin the 306 beam, jusy get 309 wishbones on.

job done

[Uberderv]

Was the 205 originally petrol or diesel? Mine is a GRDT and didn't need to change the subframe etc... I do plan on fitting 1.9 GTI hubs so I can use the thicker shafts. Do you have any plans on taking it further like an intercooler etc...?

[Poodle]

I thought it seemed a little heavy at the time, but thats what the weighbridge said. It was an old mecahnical one at Mallory park mind, possibly not the most accurate then lol.

[dieselgeek]

Uberderv mine was a 1.8d, the shafts were my big worry but thats only the start with hub and wishbone and brake changes...



And when you have to change gearbox, diff, shafts, hubs, wishbones, engine it just becomes easier to change the one part they are all bolted to.
I dropped the subframe with everything attached from the 306, then lifted it all up into the 205 bay. Subframe mounting points are so similar it almost bolted straight on. Easiest engine swap in the world  The long bit was the loom swap..


Basically it was easier to 'reshell' the 306 using a 205 body than it was to swap the engine with all necessary modifications, so maybe you could use the original subframe but it will end up being a high performance 205 rather than a 306. I didn't want a 205 I've been there and done that and imo they are all hedge magnet death traps, I wanted the performance reliability and comfort of the 306 that I've had for so long and know so well. Plus anyone could work on my car and recognise it as a standard 306, no trying to work out what bit comes from what car.. Eventually I'll sell the car and that could be really important to the next owner (if anyone will go near it!!)

Have you used the standard gearbox?
I've had to drop everything (incl subframe) 25mm so that the gearbox has enough clearance under the body by the n/s strut.



Intercooler is a loooong story that I dont want to relive, basically I've had a huge ebay job and a standard golf one both front mounts. End result is that I'll be using a liquid/air intercooler instead. No space for proper cooling for the front mount they just added weight and took up space without giving any real benefit. Took me a lot of time and money to work out I was doing the wrong thing.




Poodle think that weighbridge should be accurate cos they use it to test cars/bikes for racing, I weighed mine on the mechanical scales at Oulton so only as accurate as you are.

[dieselgeek]

Here's a picture of an idiot (me) whose just realised that he's taken 2 perfectly good cars and wrecked them both on the vague chance of making them into one... Definitely the 'balls deep' stage.

[dieselgeek]

The 306 originally

[Uberderv]

If you have 5 mins you can see how I've done it here- www.306oc.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=20562

Your 306 looked like a tidy motor too

[Poodle]

Well i would have thought so, perhaps i'm remembering it wrong, more than possible lol.

So what's actually happening with this project, you say you're at the tweaking stage, what's left?

[dieselgeek]

Uberderv just read your build, thats a mint job you've done. Thought you'd done it the hard way by buying just a motor but fair play its spot on what you've managed and the car is far tidier than mine. I wish I'd modified the loom like you did but I wanted the conversion done as fast as possible so I could drive it so I just whacked everything in and now im regretting that decision..

Yea my 306 was lovely, fond memories of that car but it was too easy to drive fast so I got into a lot of trouble, and when I lived in Coventry it got broken into nonstop, 3 times in one year. It was killing me to see her get repeatedly damaged (new doors one time, new locks a different time etc) so I had to take her off the road and get a less desirable car, had a couple of other PSA lovelies before settling on a Merc Ml as the daily driver and the 205 as the toy.



Poodle my list of jobs to finish is massive, nearly 2 a4 pages so probably about 50 jobs in total to get it to the stage where it should pass an mot without anyone realising its not a standard 205, all those little jobs that don't get taken into account like properly securing the battery in the back, securing the brake flexy hoses to the body, mounting the clocks more securely.... Working through it all when I get the time.

Don't expect it to look anything like as nice as uberdervs car, mine is a bog standard 1.8d so there's no fancy gti trim or nice paintwork. Every panel is dented, the arches are monstrous. She looks like a 20 year old Peugeot hatchback not a show car!

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So this was when I first did the conversion and finally had it running without any problems.

306 radiator with brackets that took all of 5 minutes to design and weld - it was just about 'getting it done', now its about 'getting it right'

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Another one

[Dum-Dum]

I see the air con compressor is still on the engine. Don't tell me you have plumbed in the AC as well as the ABS?

[dieselgeek]

Struggling to find a lot of my photos, really worried I've properly lost them in some hidden folder on an old computer


So I'll confuse things by posting randomly instead of in order of the build!



The car had a very raw feel when I was driving it and I wanted more refinement so I took all the sound deadening out of the 306 and put it on top of the 205 sound deadening under the carpet. Then took insulation for under laminate flooring and laid it over the top, working in sections and taping it down to the backing on the original deadening. This gave triple deadening under the carpet and on the bulkhead and once I had it all fairly compressed and taped down the carpet didn't sit too high.

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Once I had the deadening down I could map the loom back out on the floor and bulkhead, got everything in place then secured it and got the carpet back down over it. The carpet sits about an inch higher than normal on the floor but you wouldn't know it, its just not as snug a fit as it should be around the sill areas.

Oddly enough it was great fun cleaning the carpet once it was out, it was so good to have a chance to really get the carpet properly clean

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The grey stuff on the bulkhead is the laminate flooring insulation before it gets taped down. Dangling down the windscreen is the auto wiper sensor which I superglued to the windscreen, it stuck on fine and worked like it was supposed to until one cold day when it just popped off... Need to get one of the original brackets from a windscreen

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I see the air con compressor is still on the engine. Don't tell me you have plumbed in the AC as well as the ABS?

I would've done but I couldn't fit the bloody thing in!!

[dieselgeek]

Peugeot obviously decided that crash protection wasn't necessary, but after one particular b-road session I decided that it would need a cage. I wasn't prepared to change the looks by adding a full cage so started to make my own 'stealth' hidden cage, not as strong as the genuine article but still better than nothing and completely invisible.
I built this framework for in the drivers door, at this stage I was still welding with a cheap arc so its not pretty but it is strong.
Then I put a huge crossmember in behind the front seats which ties into the strong point at bottom of the b-pillar. This then links through the door framework to the strongpoint of the a-pillar, hopefully bringing the strongpoints together.

I havnt done the passenger door yet because it took so long and I can't justify buying so much material at the moment, it bolts into 4 places in the door and is an interference fit with the outer panel, and very close to both the window and motor.

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I had to cut out the inner section of the door, this then bolts very sturdily back onto the framework lower section and the rest of the door which gives it a further boost of strength

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I had chopped up quite a few 205 bits to do the conversion as fast as possible initially so it was time to buy another car to get some bits from. I needed so many bits it was going to cost a fortune, bumpers, fuel tank, trim parts etc.  I tried 'doing a deal' with various breakers but they were all **** and wanted top prices - so they got nothing. I couldnt afford £200+ on my toy car so found a cheap rotter to scavenge and scrap.


I bought this French one for £150 and rented a trailer for a day for £30. Took off as much as I could but eventually ran out of time as I only had the trailer for one day - any more and I wouldn't break even on buying the car. Picked the car up in the morning, took bits off in the daytime then scrapped it in the afternoon along with the empty shell of my 306. I'm not a fan of scrapping old cars for no reason but this was a mess of a thing with mega miles and hgf.

Bonus point was that the 205 had obviously just had a new rad fitted so I inherited that
Bad points were that I ran out of time before taking the boot floor (mine has some rot) and forgot to take the drivers seat rail - the tilt forward mechanism for the rear passengers doesn't clip into place on mine which I believe is an mot fail.


The Merc ML is my every day car, I do a lot of towing and this is rated to tow up to 3.5tons with max gross train weight of 7tons!

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Around this point I got hold of a lockup garage so the car moved into a nice dry area instead of in the back garden.




When I'm posting these pics the writing isn't going with each photo, could someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong?

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getting frustrated that these pics aren't going with the writing, and when I upload more than one photo all my writing dissapears from my post and I have to type it all again

need some advice on how to use this forum better please

[silverzx]

I need a white 205 wing... You b*stard.

[dieselgeek]

sorry silver zx was in such a rush to get shot of the car in one day that I had no time to properly break it for parts. didnt even get the fuel pump off and it was a bosch



So this pic you can see the box section I used to make the mounts for the beam. The standard 306 bolt/bush assembly was a few mm out on fitting so I knocked these up from the same van chassis-extension stuff as I did the chassis reinforcments from.
I bought some very thick poly/rubber style matting and cut squares out to make do as temporary bushes while I got everything lined up, they sit between the mounts and the body and are seated in the flat 'u section' of more box section welded to the top of the blocks. I've got some of that diy liquid polybush stuff to try out now I've got the right thickness and shape.

The beam mounting sections (the large upper sections that bolt to the car and everything is attached to -not sure what you call them???) are interference with the inner arch along their full length for about 20mm depth, so I cut off some of the excess then peened the last bit over with some heat and a hammer.

The white framework in the middle was the radiator mount, the front mounted 306 rad was awful to look at so I spent a huge amount of time building a system that worked with the rad underneath the back of the car, as you'll know from your 306 there's a lot of space back there (with the spare wheel removed) and as my 205 isn't particularly low there's a lot of airflow and a good pressure difference that can be made under there. I got the idea from those old group b lancias with the rad in the rear wing

In the end after all that time/effort I got the nearly new rad from the French 205 so it was all unnecessary...

But what I've learnt from it is that its a good place to put a radiator for a charge cooler, a 205 is so short that there's very little distance from the inlet system to the beam so its reasonable to pipe water back there.
That will wait tho, I want to drive her before more tuning is needed.

The whole underneath of the car eventually cleaned up to the nice yellow underseal...except where its nice rust!

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I had planned to stick some 20mm spacers on it to get it even wider.... but as you can see in these 2 pics there's no way it would work so I took them back off and left it standard width.

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Brakes had a standard service including a strip and a paint to keep the rust off them for the next few years. I was surprised how good condition the calipers were mechanically, given that they first saw the road in 2001.



Everyone has their own pad preference but generally I like the feel and initial bite of EBC greenstuffs at the front, and stick Boschs on at the back because although they have good power I reckon they have a less sharp initial bite which means that trail braking into a corner is more predictable giving a more natural slide on corner entry..... but this is just my opinion!

They got blue paint cos thats what I had a tin of! The car will be on 15inch standard width black steelies (still need 2 if anyones got some) and I think a nice bit of blue peeking out will look ok - if it doesn't I'll redo them.

My pad retaining system doesn't have a hole for the locking bar to clip into like some seem to - but in 30k miles I've never spat a pad so I don't think its an issue

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Rear caliper

[procta]

engineering at its finest! I know what that's like to do engine conversions! you want to see my street sleeper is reborn thread and my gta16v thread! The gta took nearly 6 years to be close to perfection ( setup and installation wise)
I have gone for the proper OEM look too with my installation, with a bit bling on the side.
Are you going to rework the dash? to fit the 306 clocks in?

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Good stuff,  I'm surprised you fitted the ABS system. I've been doing the same conversion for ages just ain't got the dosh to mot it etc....

I'm guessing it's about 125bhp? In an 815kg car must be a reet hoot

it is trust me! I have about 160 bhp in an 815 or so car.

[dieselgeek]

Procta that metro is porn, loving the sleeper hilarity bet you get some great looks when you clear off from people. I remember seeing a sleeper 106 thrash a bodykitted supra in a very illegal race, guy in the supra mustve been devastated

I've always loved them but never got round to buying one I always stick with the PSA stuff because of all the interesting bits that go wrong. Always thought I'd build a 6r4 rep but think there's so much work involved that I'd do a 309 T16 instead.

Gutted to see that rot after all the work you've done   Brace the body then get cutting!!

[procta]

Procta that metro is porn, loving the sleeper hilarity bet you get some great looks when you clear off from people. I remember seeing a sleeper 106 thrash a bodykitted supra in a very illegal race, guy in the supra mustve been devastated

I've always loved them but never got round to buying one I always stick with the PSA stuff because of all the interesting bits that go wrong. Always thought I'd build a 6r4 rep but think there's so much work involved that I'd do a 309 T16 instead.

Gutted to see that rot after all the work you've done   Brace the body then get cutting!!

Owning a sleeper, not matter what it is, the looks on peoples faces are priceless!
One of the lads i got to know really well on the other 306 forum, He had a wound up HDi sleeper, ( better than my metro) He said he would have took the piss out of me, but would be scared if i took him on with it!
He said its nuts when i took him for a little blast with it. 
I have left a few people back at the lights who were behind me, one time  a Porsche boxter, was behind me, at the lights, He got a hell of a shock as he hadn't realised that i took off that quickly, He must have took his eyes off the front just about the right time. His face was a picture when he realised how quick i had gone.
Also led a ford focus driver into false sense of security, my dad was ill with laughter with that one!
i even worried a astra 1.8 and a Honda civic that were traveling together last year, when me and my dad were going down to mg live. Astra had my two spots just sat touching his arse end, as he decided to under cut me, at the last min! Honda driver got worried when i started to pull away and backed right off. I don't think it was a vtec might have been a 1.6.
that was with the red gta,
the blue 1.1s, blew a way a two lads in a corsa 1.2 xsi!
they thought it was a 1.1s thought they could sit off the arse end.
The driver wasn't happy, after he was shown up going up a hill!
He learned a few valuable lessons, don't f*ck with an old car, and respect old rovers!  
So you have all that to come with the 205, if you can get the car as OEM if you can it would be eye watering, as its a 205 diesel. so if you badge it up as poverty spec diesel one, your onto a right winner!
The laughs you will have will be unreal!
 

[dieselgeek]

Its so poverty spec that it doesnt even come with a '1.8d' badge! Just says 205 on the back. Tbh I think I'll stick the Hdi badge on it as I'm going to re-register it as a 2 litre. When it was on the road it was on the original mot and insured as the standard car - now I want to do it properly and legally so I've got no worries about being pulled.

Just nipped down to the lockup to get some more pics.

The front brakes got the same service/strip/paint as the rear and threw some new pads at it, new discs will go on in time for the mot but no point splashing the cash yet. Need to put a new brake line connector on, the old ones been taken off as it had started to round.

The inside of the wheelarches have all been cleaned up then waxoiled. Got brown waxoil for free but might strip it off and put clear stuff on instead so the blue paint shows through...

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There was no way the 306 servo and master cylinder combo was going to fit, so I used the 205 servo and the 306 master cylinder which is a straight swap no mods needed. But the front of the cylinder is **** close to the cam sensor. I trimmed down the excess plastic of the clip for the cam sensor which gave a few mm clearance then sealed it with lots of layers of that plastic electrical sealant spray. It wasn't enough clearance for if the engine rocked back really hard so I ground down the end of the master cylinder as well.

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I was worried about how far I could trim the cylinder without getting to close to its important bits, so I took the 205 master cylinder which is almost identical and cut it down 2.5mm at a time until I found the point of no return. At 10mm the spring started to appear, so I reckon a 5mm trim was absolutely reasonable, which still leaves 5mm of aluminium at the very thinnest point, and the full 10mm at the top.

[dieselgeek]

Getting the remote central locking in was very awkward. The locking unit is much larger than the 205 unit and didn't fit in the standard place, so I had to move it down a few inches and the corresponding locking bar on the car moved down inside the doorframe. This was the easy bit.


The handles on a 205 are 'pull' rather than 'push', so instead of having the bar which joins the handle to the locker unit I had to use a cable and put a 180 degree bend through it to pull the opposite direction. After numerous failed systems I ended up on this, the cable sits inside a length of of brake pipe which is a 'u' shape with oil sat in the bottom to keep it lubricated. The inner part of the outside door handle had to be extended so that it gave enough travel to pull the cable far enough for the 306 locker to move the whole way, this took a lot of trial and error as there's no space to get in and measure things when its fitted.

There is no space for a locking barrel from the outside, so I cut down the barrells so it looks oem from outside but there's enough clearance for everything, you can put the key in and turn it but nothing happens so the doors have to be unlocked from the keyfob which is fine with me. I've left the bootlock mechanism on the 205 key so in case of battery or system failure I can resort to a different key and get in through the boot.

The wiring connection for the locking unit was in the way of the window, I cut down the clip so it just had pins sticking out, then took the innards out of some household 'chocolate block' connectors and soldered them onto each pin, then cut off the loom end of the connector and soldered each wire into the new connector pin holes. Everything is very secure and I've now got a good layer of electrical plastic sealant stuff on it so its insulated, when I've got the bloody electric window working right I'll tape everything over to insulate it better.

Things like this have taken me so many evenings, I only get around 2 hours at a time in the lockup and often the first few attempts aren't the right way of doing it, so I got back to the drawing board and rethink it and go back for another 2 hour session... it takes weeks at a time to finally get a system that works reliably. I've not had any failures in around a year or so of using the doors with the system I've now got so I reckon they do the job.

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When I finally have a system that Im happy with I make it neat and tidy. Neat and tidy not shown in these pics!!!

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Managed to get a period cassette player for it, don't listen to music in the car anyway as I've only ever run with a straight through exhaust so just listen to the turbo whine instead.

Put a blanker in next to the rear heater button, this replaces the fog light button which is on the 306 indicator stalk

[procta]

getting there fella, some of the metro lads well racers put the Rover 25 car looms in, something i should have done really.

[dieselgeek]

The loom goes into the car via the scuttle using the standard 306 stuff. I had to cut a hole in the body to fit the connection in. With it living in the scuttle I was worried about water ingress into the electrics and generally into the car, so I sealed it then glued bicycle inner tube around it which gives a nice watertight rubber area, then it has a 'roof' of more inner tube glued over the top so that the water goes off this and onto the outside of the watertight area then down through the normal scuttle drains.


It doesn't look pretty but I'd be confident enough to jetwash the car with no worries.

The wiring goes from here into the engine bay via another hole I cut and runs along the engine above the belts.

I took a lot of the relays (rad fans etc) and other electrics into the car through a hole in the bulkhead and mounted everything solidly behind the dash.

For moving the battery into the car I used heavy duty welding cable, relatively voltage drop and excellent flexibility linked to a new battery that is a tiny bit more powerful than it has to be. The wires go in through the buklhead near the o/s strut tucked in behind the washer bottle. Need to get a rubber bung on this as I'm not happy with the wires moving around loose in the hole.

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Airbag sensors are all fitted as I'd planned to use the seat airbags, this will now wait until after the mot as its not important yet.

The wiring coming through the doorcard is for the electric window switch, this is all hidden in the door pocket but I've lost the bloody passengers door pocket, will turn up eventually.

[Eeyore]

Interesting project! I would have used the XUD myself but each to their own! Will be awesome with a wide kit on it!