Turbo selection

[padge]

Guy on ebay sent me a message saying the TD04 has more play in the shaft than he thought, he said i can still have it if i want, but i said it didnt matter, so on the lookout for another turbo, thing is im not sure on what to get, another T25? TD04, some kinda GT series? i can get a T28 locally but the lag would be silly, anyone recommend anything else? or even find some on ebay? few TD04's on but there wanting way too much for them..

[Dan!]

Well im sure you know the order of quality in them lot Txx's are fairly old hat tech, TDxx's are old but not bad on these cars and GT turbo's would be the far superior option, just more costly. If I were in your shoes id be looking for something in the GT series for sure, something like a 2052/56.....

[Toby]

Well im sure you know the order of quality in them lot Txx's are fairly old hat tech, TDxx's are old but not bad on these cars and GT turbo's would be the far superior option, just more costly. If I were in your shoes id be looking for something in the GT series for sure, something like a 2052/56.....

My GT2056s is sat on my desk staring me in the face

[padge]

toby, mine would of been on the same day it arrived lol.

[Matty]

toby, mine would of been on the same day it arrived lol.

Cool story that :roll:

[Ruan]

Completely depends what you want?

Quick spool time?
Longevity?
Good top end response?
Easy to fit?
Power?

Completely depends what you want...

If you look through my posts, I've made NUMEROUS suggestions... Pointing out a couple that are good options, you don't have to stick to what others have done, you can try new things, you know!

[n0v0s]

My k14 has successfully died today, it did well tbh

I no longer have any more standard turbos lying around.. so i am in the same predicament Padge!

Reliability is becomming a big problem now - broken down toooo many times and blown too many turbos, i can't afford to break down anymore but i also can't lay off abusing the poor little puglet and keep bodging it (the route to all my rac call outs!) . I'm even considering selling it :nope: but i know it will be gd if i can stick on a better durable turbo at sensible psi! // end ramble.

[n0v0s]

Completely depends what you want?

Quick spool time?
Longevity?
Good top end response?
Easy to fit?
Power?

Completely depends what you want...

If you look through my posts, I've made NUMEROUS suggestions... Pointing out a couple that are good options, you don't have to stick to what others have done, you can try new things, you know!

Ruan, with your vnt, have you just turned the actuator around so that it works off boost rather than vacuum? Does this then crudely control the vanes? How do vnts fair with regards to sizing compared to wastegated turbos? Is it a case of being able to fit larger framed turbos due to the reduced lag times.. In which case would a, say ..gt2260v off a x30d be spoolable?

[Ruan]

They do fair much better being VNT, a GTB2260VK is more than doable (talking spool up at around 2200rpm no issues) but it will surge...

And yes, turned the actuator upside down... Takes a bit of playing with to get right, the VKs are a nightmare being electronic originally, they have no vane lever stop, so they will go to FULL spool position, where you strangle the engine, make it surge like hell etc. You need to be careful with your foot as it does tend to surge if you try and give it too much too early, it's useless if you aren't going to drive around with mechanical sympathy. If anything a 2260VK is a bit big if you want something reliable, it'll put out MASSES of air at low RPMs, you're going to have big surging problems unless you severely modify things in the head and manifolds or get it set up impeccably well... Or you may as well just get a big wastegater as it's going to be as laggy before surging...

My turbo spools up quicker than a T2 and goes better than a T25... So it's the best of both worlds, in all honesty, if you want reliability and cheapness, you cannot go far wrong with the 2052V, I keep picking them up for £60 or so... So little lag, so much torque and a pretty darned good top end... 2256s are a good option, but very, very expensive as all the BMWs keep destroying them...

[n0v0s]

They do fair much better being VNT, a GTB2260VK is more than doable (talking spool up at around 2200rpm no issues) but it will surge...

And yes, turned the actuator upside down... Takes a bit of playing with to get right, the VKs are a nightmare being electronic originally, they have no vane lever stop, so they will go to FULL spool position, where you strangle the engine, make it surge like hell etc. You need to be careful with your foot as it does tend to surge if you try and give it too much too early, it's useless if you aren't going to drive around with mechanical sympathy. If anything a 2260VK is a bit big if you want something reliable, it'll put out MASSES of air at low RPMs, you're going to have big surging problems unless you severely modify things in the head and manifolds or get it set up impeccably well... Or you may as well just get a big wastegater as it's going to be as laggy before surging...

My turbo spools up quicker than a T2 and goes better than a T25... So it's the best of both worlds, in all honesty, if you want reliability and cheapness, you cannot go far wrong with the 2052V, I keep picking them up for £60 or so... So little lag, so much torque and a pretty darned good top end... 2256s are a good option, but very, very expensive as all the BMWs keep destroying them...

Very good! With regards to surging, it's just a case of progressively increasing 'throttle' with revs then? I appear to do that already to some extent to stop the motor bogging down so i guess i have some 'mechanical sympathy' ey?!

Just to clarify, do you have any particular links to hand showing the actuator modification? I still need to properly familiarise myself with vnt operation, but i understand the vanes are normally vacuum controlled. Is the switching to boost control detrimental to fine vane contol then? Hence the surging at low revs? In effect, causing the accelerator position to fine tune the vane position?

How durable are the gt2056v's? What sort of boost pressure/ estimated power can they sustain and support reliably?
Thanks

[declantg]

Gt15? i have a spare?

[n0v0s]

I wouldn't fit one even if it was free!

Thanks though.

[Ruan]

Very good! With regards to surging, it's just a case of progressively increasing 'throttle' with revs then? I appear to do that already to some extent to stop the motor bogging down so i guess i have some 'mechanical sympathy' ey?!

Just to clarify, do you have any particular links to hand showing the actuator modification? I still need to properly familiarise myself with vnt operation, but i understand the vanes are normally vacuum controlled. Is the switching to boost control detrimental to fine vane contol then? Hence the surging at low revs? In effect, causing the accelerator position to fine tune the vane position?

How durable are the gt2056v's? What sort of boost pressure/ estimated power can they sustain and support reliably?
Thanks

Yes, your lack of throttle to stop bogging is good anyway, but it's even more accentuated with a VNT, it's mostly on the motorway you'll find it, with my turbo it's about 2400rpm when you start building the throttle, it starts spinning up and you start to hear the typical noise... You do have to lift off or change down...

Originally obviously the turbos are controlled with an ECU... Because they have boost maps, they can restrict the boost down low, so up until 3000rpm, it'll reduce the boost levels by controlling the vanes... Obviously on boost control, you can't do it, they will do whatever you set them to do, it's simply boost > vane control, the way you want to control it is basically a computer to run a lookup table with boost vs throttle position and then a straight boost limiter table with boost vs rpm, so the computer simply pulls a value that it should be at a given throttle position and then simply compares it to the boost limiter table, which it'll decide if the requested boost from TPS is higher than the boost limiter value, if so it just holds it there until the RPMs change...

With pure Boost Control the biggest disadvantage is the increase in pumping losses because on the motorway, it's not quite past the vane threshold, but just between, about 10-14psi continually... Restricting the engine, normally ECUs would open the vanes back whilst cruising, reduce the boost so it reduces the pumping losses... If you can restrict it down low with the throttle, perfect - but it's a lash up most of the time with bits of cable, springs etc... One day when I have time I'll do the ECU controller I always intended to do, I've got all the parts, got most of the software written, just need to sit down and sort it and put it on the car.

GT2056Vs are too small on the hotside IMO for our engines, I struggle with EGTs and EMPs with a 2052V, gets seriously hot if I push it much harder than it is now, you'd be better off with a 2256V or if you can find one, a 2252V, would help surge massively, increase lag sure, but it wouldn't be significantly worse than a T2 IMO, at least, on gearchange, it's literally instant...

</lectureramble>

[ginge191]

Padge - check this out - http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga ... bochargers - the entire garret range telling you the (recommended) BHP level for each turbo, the inlet/outlet sizes, A/R etc. etc... from GT12XX up to the GT60XX - ofcourse, the GT60's being used for HUGE engines :roll:

edit: just flicking through that site and theres some REALLY good information on there! despite being all american, still got some really decent stuff there!

[Ruan]

Remember, they're petrol power levels...

That tells you nothing about how they'll fair on a Diesel... Remember you need a much smaller A/R on a Diesel as they don't rev as hard, which reduces how many aitch peez it'll do.

[n0v0s]

Very good! With regards to surging, it's just a case of progressively increasing 'throttle' with revs then? I appear to do that already to some extent to stop the motor bogging down so i guess i have some 'mechanical sympathy' ey?!

Just to clarify, do you have any particular links to hand showing the actuator modification? I still need to properly familiarise myself with vnt operation, but i understand the vanes are normally vacuum controlled. Is the switching to boost control detrimental to fine vane contol then? Hence the surging at low revs? In effect, causing the accelerator position to fine tune the vane position?

How durable are the gt2056v's? What sort of boost pressure/ estimated power can they sustain and support reliably?
Thanks

Yes, your lack of throttle to stop bogging is good anyway, but it's even more accentuated with a VNT, it's mostly on the motorway you'll find it, with my turbo it's about 2400rpm when you start building the throttle, it starts spinning up and you start to hear the typical noise... You do have to lift off or change down...

Originally obviously the turbos are controlled with an ECU... Because they have boost maps, they can restrict the boost down low, so up until 3000rpm, it'll reduce the boost levels by controlling the vanes... Obviously on boost control, you can't do it, they will do whatever you set them to do, it's simply boost > vane control, the way you want to control it is basically a computer to run a lookup table with boost vs throttle position and then a straight boost limiter table with boost vs rpm, so the computer simply pulls a value that it should be at a given throttle position and then simply compares it to the boost limiter table, which it'll decide if the requested boost from TPS is higher than the boost limiter value, if so it just holds it there until the RPMs change...

With pure Boost Control the biggest disadvantage is the increase in pumping losses because on the motorway, it's not quite past the vane threshold, but just between, about 10-14psi continually... Restricting the engine, normally ECUs would open the vanes back whilst cruising, reduce the boost so it reduces the pumping losses... If you can restrict it down low with the throttle, perfect - but it's a lash up most of the time with bits of cable, springs etc... One day when I have time I'll do the ECU controller I always intended to do, I've got all the parts, got most of the software written, just need to sit down and sort it and put it on the car.

GT2056Vs are too small on the hotside IMO for our engines, I struggle with EGTs and EMPs with a 2052V, gets seriously hot if I push it much harder than it is now, you'd be better off with a 2256V or if you can find one, a 2252V, would help surge massively, increase lag sure, but it wouldn't be significantly worse than a T2 IMO, at least, on gearchange, it's literally instant...

</lectureramble>

Very informative, thanks for taking the time to type that.

About 80% of my driving is on the motorway during term time, and i tend to be cruising at 3kish @ 70mph with the xud box. Normally hold around ~6psi. With an increase in pumping losses and restriction, my fuel economy will suffer..

I had won a 99p turbo from ebay, it was a td04 16/18t from an old volvo 850. The seller said i could collect, but timing wasn't convenient. So i asked to re-arrange and he never replied back! If i could have got that, i would have welded it on this week. Something a bit different, albeit it possibly for good reason! I can't imagine that would have spooled up to quick?!

As of yet, i have till the end of the week to bodge a snail on before i need to get back to uni

[cwspellowe]

GT2259 with screamer pipe. Do it!

[Ruan]

Nah, those Volvo ones wouldn't be that bad in all honesty, people haven't experimented with bigger compressors on TD04Ls... a TD04L 16T would be an awesome combo on one of these IMO... You'd have sorta the same spool time as a TD04L 13T, but the top end flow of a bigger compressor, the 13ts do still tend to die before the redline.

If you can get one off a T5 or similar, do it!

[n0v0s]

I see! The seller didn't actually know what it was. At a guess it was a 16 something or bigger going by engine size.

As long as i keep below 6psi, the k14 blades don't appear to rub the housing meaning i can probably keep driving on what little bearing life i have remaining... in which case i might just pop down.. 30 mins drive away and ask for my 99p turbo! Principle and all that... also i don't think i can take another <6psi drive back up the m6 next week. Was Horrific! Remind me why i drive an xud again?!

[Ruan]

For the awesome rasp on blow, annoying other cars with diesel noise, 45mpg, running on veg, torque coming out your ears... Need I go on?

[n0v0s]

You see, you are right on the ball - they are the things that i just can't give up! But keep forgetting when i'm blind with fail rage. Sitting at the laptop i ponder about giving up the struggle for reliability (i'd give flippin pop eye a run for his money the number of times i've lifted that bonnet up and down!) but then when i drive it, i just can't bring myself to do it! My car and I have gained a massive reputation for being a joke the amount of times ive broken down driving in to hospital and i just can't miss anymore teaching... so I bid on a 330d, but after a drive in my failgeot i hoped i got outbid

I've just realised that Padge started this thread and i've kinda hijacked it! Appologies.

[padge]

Yes, thanks lol, not bothered about a VNT turbo, can't be bothered with surge etc, been looking at bigger TD04's though, as said earlier in the thread, the T28 price has come down to 80quid, it's only done 200 miles on a turbo saxo.

[n0v0s]

Have you any idea as to when a t28 would actually start boosting?

[padge]

a member on here runs one, not sure if he wants to be known he's running it, so won't say who, but full boost at 3800 lol he says its mental when its on chat though.

[n0v0s]

I know who,

full boost at 3800, so must start building by 3k? Should make near 200bhp

[padge]

probably start boosting at 3400 or something, my t25 peaks at 3k i think.

[n0v0s]

I think my k14 peaks close to 2800/3ish but i've never really bothered to check. I normally stick to 4kish, sometimes upto 4.5/5 in 1st or 2nd as i just 'ride the torque' innnnnnit. T28 doesn't sound all thaat bad if it was cheap?

What happened to your t25 btw? And are you actually considering the t28? On the plus side, i guess while you're driving economically, you're using less boost so less fuel (excluding negligible extra exhaust restriction) and when you're going for it... theres more difference between off/on boost so potentially feel much quicker/spikier in delivery.

[ginge191]

Remember, they're petrol power levels...

That tells you nothing about how they'll fair on a Diesel... Remember you need a much smaller A/R on a Diesel as they don't rev as hard, which reduces how many aitch peez it'll do.

you need to pursue further into the site - there's a turbo calculator - and "suggests" you a turbo.

You input values INCLUDING your fuel type, before bhp, target bhp etc etc.. it suggests you a turbo.

And yes, although being petrol levels, the A/R is still available for you to do a little math yourself, a shitter, i know..

[londondan86]

Nah, those Volvo ones wouldn't be that bad in all honesty, people haven't experimented with bigger compressors on TD04Ls... a TD04L 16T would be an awesome combo on one of these IMO... You'd have sorta the same spool time as a TD04L 13T, but the top end flow of a bigger compressor, the 13ts do still tend to die before the redline.

If you can get one off a T5 or similar, do it!

Ive been looking into this quite a lot. There are 13t to 19t kits on ebay (I know the 19 will be a bit big). What has put me off so far is would the turbo then have to be sent off for balancing as I would imagine this being quite pricey.

[Ruan]

Why not just get one that's already a 16T or similar then?