Upcoming elections

[Niall]

So this thread is mainly for Dumdum to prove something to me but i thought it would be interesting to see what other peoples opinions are seeing as most of us (well Kezzieboy ) are strongly opinionated! lol

Who's going to be voting for who or if at all on the 22nd?
UKIP seem to be really pushing their selves now and I've heard a lot more people say they are thinking about voting for them but personally, i think over the past few weeks they have just showed them selves to be the next BNP.

[DavidA]

There were a couple of old guys standing beside a roundabout waving at traffic and holding UKIP signs on my way to work this morning...won't sway my vote.

[Grant]

Brave.
It's normally quite a personal thing that people rarely discuss.

[Dodgy Bob]

Haha you posted this up while I was still typing up my reply on the Britains First thread so you'll find most of my views there but I'll happily take part in this.
Unfortunately because we just moved and I didnt get the papers in on time so I wont be able to vote this time but if I could of I would have been voting UKIP not because I agree with their policies, just because I'm sick of the other three and think upsetting the apple cart will eventually lead to some positive repercussions in the long run.

[DazzaHDI]

UKIP. If I were voting but not going to waste my time. It's all bullcrap anyway!

[1616six]

This is a thread that will be locked in a day, politics are just a silly thing to discuss on a forum as it's one of the biggest can of worms there is to open.

I grew up in a split labour/Tory household, I now live in a house with a conservative constituency leader & I choose not to vote for anyone, due to various reasons.

[Dum-Dum]

I'll start by saying I have already voted (by post). I picked what in my opinion was the best option based on the facts available and my own opinion at the time.

I won't have it that UKIP are the next BNP, the English Democrats (EDL) and Britain First are already there. UKIP are nearer the new old conservatives.

Anyway my reasons for a UKIP vote are these.
Firstly - Without UKIP doing well in the european elections and being able to gain power and trust and prove themselves they will never win a general election. Thats my end goal, let them win a general election. If they win and make things better then great. If they don't well its only 4 years. but you watch how labor and the conservatives try and pull themselves back, how they are forced to prove themselves and we get a better lab/con government out of it.
Secondly - My soon to be independant motherland is not going to be part of the EU, with us out too it will make continued trade with scotland possible. Dont think its needed look at all the power stations, coal, oil and gas up there and all the heavy engineering. Somethings we'd be lost without.
Thirdly - I agree with helping other countries but when ours is so broke why are we bailing out others at huge cost that could of been better kept here and kept our AAA credit rating. Why are we supporting foreign farmers when ours are struggling?
Fourthly - sorting out this alleged culture of benefits(obviously not gonna happen from euro elections). Lets see if they can do it, nobody else has managed but I'm sick of walking into houses where no fucker works and their TV is 3 times the size of mine and their cars are nicer too. I feel like I'm getting mugged off working for a living.
Finally - I know I'm being a little englander here but net migration here in the last 10 years is about 2.2 million people. Unemployment is also, low and behold, 2.2 million. I know theres a skills balance and jobs people here are unwilling to do but thats gotta be an argument for lower migration (figures from google)


as for me I'm an old tory at heart but the one election promise they didnt keep has f*cked me right off (80mph speed limit). I wanna see people who are honest and keep their promises, lets have a change for once.

[Kezzieboy]

Thanks for the personal mention Niall I'm gaining a reputation on here and at uni lol.

If you'd like to protest vote, please vote Green. UKIP represent all the bad things about the 3 main parties, on steroids.

Personally? Green for EU elections due to an actual, fair voting system. General election? Undecided, depends upon whether I'm in a constituency which is close between Labour and the Torys/Lib Dems. I'd honestly rather not vote Labour, they don't represent the people of this country much more than the others, they are merely the lesser of 3 (well, 4 now) evils, and still full of privileged, privately educated toffs. I'd like to vote Green in the general election as well, but we'll see.

[Dum-Dum]

I'd disagree Kezz , I don't think the greens know the best way to be green. All this anti fracking stuff is a bit much. it needs more research. Yeah solar and wind are great but they wont get planning for enough farms as people object and solar farms take away crop growing space.

I think a genuine alternative vote is the NHS action party, yeah its single issue but they seem to be all over it. something that we all will rely on at some point and part of the backbone of this society.

[Kezzieboy]

You're right, it needs much, much more research. Not massive cuts to taxation and the go ahead to crack on, like the Torys are encouraging.

[Niall]

I'll start by saying I have already voted (by post). I picked what in my opinion was the best option based on the facts available and my own opinion at the time.

I won't have it that UKIP are the next BNP, the English Democrats (EDL) and Britain First are already there. UKIP are nearer the new old conservatives.

Anyway my reasons for a UKIP vote are these.
Firstly - Without UKIP doing well in the european elections and being able to gain power and trust and prove themselves they will never win a general election. Thats my end goal, let them win a general election. If they win and make things better then great. If they don't well its only 4 years. but you watch how labor and the conservatives try and pull themselves back, how they are forced to prove themselves and we get a better lab/con government out of it.

Yeah but they need to advertise them selves well in order to make people want to give them a chance. Watch that video i told you about and you will see what i mean

Secondly - My soon to be independant motherland is not going to be part of the EU, with us out too it will make continued trade with scotland possible. Dont think its needed look at all the power stations, coal, oil and gas up there and all the heavy engineering. Somethings we'd be lost without.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the EU but we need to be a part of it. Yes we could leave and just close the doors to everyone foreign but we would cut a hell of a lot of trade ties and lets face it, we don't produce much here at all. The cost of living would rocket over night. What we need to do is be more forceful with the parts of the EU that we don't agree with such as immigration

Thirdly - I agree with helping other countries but when ours is so broke why are we bailing out others at huge cost that could of been better kept here and kept our AAA credit rating. Why are we supporting foreign farmers when ours are struggling?

We aren't broke. Have you seen the news recently? Yes, cost of living is still high but we are now at the same point as we were before we were plunged into this recession and considering the trade i work in and trades i work with, i haven't heard a single tradesman who is not doing well at the moment. That money has to come from somewhere!

Fourthly - sorting out this alleged culture of benefits(obviously not gonna happen from euro elections). Lets see if they can do it, nobody else has managed but I'm sick of walking into houses where no fucker works and their TV is 3 times the size of mine and their cars are nicer too. I feel like I'm getting mugged off working for a living.

Agreed i can't stand all these spongers that just don't work because they can't be bothered but i think unless some sort of drastic action is taken on that, it will never change massively.

Finally - I know I'm being a little englander here but net migration here in the last 10 years is about 2.2 million people. Unemployment is also, low and behold, 2.2 million. I know theres a skills balance and jobs people here are unwilling to do but thats gotta be an argument for lower migration (figures from google)

Again, I'm not a fan of the fact we have so many unemployed/on benefits. Sooner something is done. I know some will argue with me but i think the current government is doing a good job. Yeah its taking time but it was never going to be a over night thing

as for me I'm an old tory at heart but the one election promise they didnt keep has f*cked me right off (80mph speed limit). I wanna see people who are honest and keep their promises, lets have a change for once.

Just my opinion of course

[Dum-Dum]

You're right, it needs much, much more research. Not massive cuts to taxation and the go ahead to crack on, like the Torys are encouraging.

True dat!. It also doesn't need massively biassed government funded research that will decide whatever the party commissioning it decides.

[lolsteve]

I'm for the movement of upsetting the apple cart with voting for someone different, unfortunately the other options aren't too appealing. From what it seems though it does look like UKIP will get at least an honourable mention this year, which is interesting at least.

[ozonehostile]

I like that the first I've heard of an upcoming election is on a Peugeot forum haha

[Kezzieboy]

I'm sure there's nothing I can say to change your mind, but immigration is this country really isn't a problem. EU immigrants are MORE LIKELY to make a net contribution (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467) and the only other immigrants they have targets has resulted in them wrecking families (http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/...ssist.html). Yup, that's right, they've stopped the spouses of British citizens, including those with British children, from moving to the UK. Excellent work Conservatives, my girlfriends mother, among others, is unable to live in the UK. Bravo.

I struggle to understand any arguments against immigration, here's some more facts:



Sources:

1. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/...th-service

2. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in...broad/html

3. http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fact...-pay/16332

4. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0907/09072302

5. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11...x/abstract


Urm, what else to say? Villainising those on benefits is a hideous thing, it's not a lifestyle choice, otherwise you'd see middle class people packing it in to live on benefits. Another pretty picture:




That'll do for now, any questions?

[Dodgy Bob]

Although I agree it can be hard on some families, the whole spouse movement thing gains little sympathy from me. I know you can't help who you fall in love with and should it be someone from a different country then so be it, but if it's true love and it's the companionship that matters then if a barrier is in the way what's wrong with the other halfs country? Like some English people who fall in love with an illegal immigrant who shouldn't be here in the first place, then marry them here, and then apply for residency and bleat when it's rejected.......... If it's true love and you'd do anything to be with them stop moaning and go live in their country! Oh no that's right they don't have half our services so go running to ECHR and waste even more tax payers money.

Case in point not too far from here, Iraqi gains acces to country illegally, gets banned from driving while been a illegal, didn't have a licence in first place, then committed another offence and got another ban, then while drunk and twice banned knocked over a 17yr old blonde haired blue eyed English beauty, kills her! While awaiting trial went and screwed a English woman got her up the duff, got convicted, 2-4years a total joke, was meant to be deported at end of sentence, nope! Went to ECHR apparently we would be breaching his right to family life should we deport him........ What about the right to family life of the girl he killed, what about her right to life period! She was born here, grew up here, should have been safe here, if he wasn't here she still would have been! Totally wrong! And if the silly cow who screwed him while he was awaiting trial wanted a right to family life..... Go with him to Iraq!

Makes my blood boil that story. If your gona come here you follow our laws, if you break them.... Bye bye! If you shouldn't of been here in the first place and you break our laws and kill one of our own...... An afternoon in a locked room with the family of your victim and then if your still in what could be construed to be one piece..... Bye bye again!

---

Granted the above is a extreme and I got a bit side tracked but it can and does happen that's why some of the controls are in place and why some of the controls I support, inconvenient to some yes but not the be all and end all as there's always alternatives.

[Kezzieboy]

Mate, that story has to be one in a million. The ruling has been brought in by the current government to fiddle the numbers and claim they're reducing immigration, when it means nothing, as it's a tiny, tiny percentage of legal EU migration.

My girlfriends mother would not be some drain on resources, she would not be claiming benefits, her husband has been working for NGOs as a teacher for disabled students in deprived and war-torn countries for decades. And yet he can't move back to his own country with his wife. Madness. Especially seeing as wealthy oligarchs can BUY British citizenship for a few million quid.

The tories stand for the preservation of wealth for those who have it, and keeping the rest of the country quiet. UKIP are just an even more extreme version, full of ex-Tory outcasts, and funded by the same people.

Forgot to mention, better yet, under current legislation these spouses can get multiple entry visas, allowing them to spend a certain amount of time here, per year, providing they don't stay for too long in one go. If they, within their rights, take those who control immigration to court and then lose the case they then are banned from getting a multiple entry visa, and relegated to a tourist visa. f*ck yeah, justice....wait, what?!

[Dum-Dum]

I'm sure there's nothing I can say to change your mind, but immigration is this country really isn't a problem. EU immigrants are MORE LIKELY to make a net contribution (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467) and the only other immigrants they have targets has resulted in them wrecking families (http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/...ssist.html). Yup, that's right, they've stopped the spouses of British citizens, including those with British children, from moving to the UK. Excellent work Conservatives, my girlfriends mother, among others, is unable to live in the UK. Bravo.

I struggle to understand any arguments against immigration, here's some more facts:


Urm, what else to say? Villainising those on benefits is a hideous thing, it's not a lifestyle choice, otherwise you'd see middle class people packing it in to live on benefits. Another pretty picture:

I am not against immigration dude but they have to draw a line somewhere as to who can come in to the country and there just isnt the facility to judge it fairly on a case by case basis.

I accept that alot of the NHS (and some other professions) is entirely supported by immigrant workers. This is why I am not against immigration but those propping up the NHS make up a very small proportion of immigration.

As for Benefits Lifestyle I am not in any way trying to villanise those who need and actually use benefits appropriately but for those people who never work and chose to live off them yes its wrong and don't try telling me that it doesnt happen as it does, there is alot of households where nobody works and nobody ever will work. It shouldn't be allowed. I personally dont think you should be allowed to claim more out of the system than you have ever put in.

[Scott]

Chris bear in mind your profession, as by nature you're predisposed to see the kinds of people you dislike (the benefit fraudsters and scroungers), so it may appear to be much more rife than what it actually is.

We get a lot of benefits conferred from being part of the EU aside from those that are generally batted around, people are generally too focused on it allowing migrant workers (which actually has a number of benefits, many of the people claiming "they're stealing are jobs" fail to notice they're doing jobs that they themselves don't want to do or think are "below them").

While politics are generally a difficult issue and shouldn't be discussed on a forum, so long as it stays clean and people are respectful of opinions, it can stay.

[Piggy]

I already voted years ago for this: Daniel 2:44.

Will always be my vote.

[Pompey306mark]

I think anyone who votes for ukip is wasting their vote. I can't see them winning.

It would be bad for the uk if they win, leaving the EU would cripple the uk and Scotland (who will still be part of this great collection of nations). We don't have the natural resources to make a difference in the world. Yes we have the North Sea but that pails in signifence to the amount of oil and gas in the Middle East.
It's not enough for the country to survive on without importing goods.
Without the EU everything we buy from abroad will go up in cost. It will make it harder to export and goods we do export.

So far from what I have seen people voting for ukip are old angry people or young angry uninformed people.
Yes I know the government both labour and the current partnership have not made things great, but with the current and past financial world markets what do you expect.
Benefits are there to help people difficult situations I know this from the last two years of my life. I to believe that isomer people do take the piss on these benefits but I would have been screwed if it had not been for that government support.

[THE_Liam]

There's a lot of myths about immigration that seem to float around a lot. A mate of mine worked in the Phillipines for 4 years and while he was out there met and married a local lass. He had to come back here and spend 14 months fighting for her to be granted a temporary visa, and now she's been here 3 years and the amount of visa applications, residency applications and citizenship tests is ridiculous, and she still doesn't have permanent residency despite working and actually being married to a UK citizen.

As for me, I'm going to vote for someone to block UKIP, just not sure who. Labour and Conservatives seem terrible in different ways, so I'm undecided.

[Scott]

I know others who have had the same story Liam, where they've been married and had kids, and gave spent years proving that they don't have a sham marriage. Immigration is not as easy as the Daily Mail would lead people to believe.

[THE_Liam]

The Daily Mail is so full of shite it's unbelievable. Speaking as a Northerner, there are streets in Bradford where no white people live, it's true. However, in the 1940's my family came here and lived in Richmond Hill in Leeds, on a street of purely Irish people. Eventually those people got better jobs and settled in the country and then spread out, and the same will happen with every other nationality. It's been happening for over a thousand years. Some of these EDL/BNP/BF idiots call themselves Anglo-Saxon. That means you came here from what is now Germany!

[ginge191]

Think i'll stay out of this one and watch on the fence

[ozonehostile]

I already voted years ago for this: Daniel 2:44.

Will always be my vote.

I never knew you were a religious man piggy!

Daniel 2:44 is something about a super Kingdom that will crush all others into submission or something along those lines Yeah?

Definitely sounds Christian, believe what we believe or be destroyed

[C.A.R.]

I personally dont think you should be allowed to claim more out of the system than you have ever put in.

This is what I believe too. It would make such a difference to the benefits culture and would help ensure that only the most needy got it. Policing it and monitoring it would be a nightmare though, and what would you do to those families who have reached their quota and aren't entitled to more money as they haven't paid enough in? You can't let them starve, not in a modern society.

It does grind my gears though, as someone who has worked since they were 16 and full-time since I was 18 we draw very little from the 'system' in the form of Child Benefit, which won't even cover the cost of nappies, for instance.

Yet I have a sibling who has never held down a full-time position, has 2 kids (thankfully to the same dad), lives in heavily-subsidised housing in Ruislip (not a cheap part of the country to live in!) and lives the life of riley - on benefits.

Neither her nor her partner have paid anything into the system, her partner recently turned down a job because it would have meant that he did over 16 hours per week - this loses them some form of benefit. It's sickening, and they've just got back from Florida, too.

Meanwhile I'm here, doing all I can to support my family on a healthy wage but living with my parents and with no 'spare' money.

[Razorback_Rob]

I'm personally an undecided voter. Am torn between parties I guess I need to weigh up what I believe will be best for this country and put my vote in. I don't believe immigration should stop just tighter regulations, a bit like Australia: you need to bring a valued trade to the country or be able to fund yourself when entering this country and not come here and expect handouts. No country should be expected to do this. I want to see a grow in uk economy and to start exporting more of our home grown/made goods and use our own. There are many other criterias I'm looking at for a party vote.

If you want a laugh too go look at the bnp videos on YouTube. Full of uneducated mongs. Thanks to ozonehostile for showing me them. It's beyond funny.

[RetroPug]

I think we should adopt the German system, whereby if you have not worked in the UK for 3+ years you cannot claim unemployment benefits. Theoretically, you've come to a country to work and contribute, so if you haven't done so yet clearly something's up.

This would create a much larger barrier to people coming here solely to claim without being unfair, and also remove most of the reason for people to complain about people coming over and taking our benefits.

[ozonehostile]

If you want a laugh too go look at the bnp videos on YouTube. Full of uneducated mongs. Thanks to ozonehostile for showing me them. It's beyond funny.

Omg yes! Full of Dissapointed bulldogs, immigration penguins, creepy bnp kids and nick Griffin looking suspiciously thinner than he is in real life