Going for a bigger car next year....

[C.A.R.]

I know it's early to start thinking about it, but I can't help myself.

I know the 306 is going on the chopping block after this coming winter. I'm hopeful I can get about a bag of sand for it come then.

I thoroughly recommend a 306 to any young family though, but next year we are looking to have sprog #2 once my Mrs gets her qualification certificate (September).

This will be a bargain-basement car. I can always borrow money from relatives but I can't really afford to pay much back nowadays, money isn't going as far. So my budget is going to be around 2-2.5K I reckon.

I've looked at the following motors. I'm not after much, as it's going to get battered by kids (the 306 is already suffering this fate...)
Vectra Diesel - bit dull-looking, but lots of car for your money
Saab 9-5 diesel - for the same reasons as above (same car basically? Am I wrong?)
Mondeo TDCi 130 - Does basically everything, DMF concerns me
Mazda6 TS 136 - lots of horror stories about; are the problems avoidable?

I really fancy a Volvo but I don't know what I'd get in that budget. I'm looking at cars around 2-3k as my budget will be smack in the middle of that in about 6 months.

What do you reckon? And no, don't want a 306 Estate, I want something a little more refined sadly

[306Puggy]

Volvo 850R estate/thread.

[Mattcheese31]

i've got 2 kids now . . . . buy a roof box like me . .

[THE_Liam]

406 2.2 HDi?

[Niall]

Vectra and 95 are not the same car. 93 and the Vectra are. The 95 is a lot bigger and also a hell of a lot nicer and comfier. You also get a lot of spec for your money and the engines are pretty bullet proof. Just need to watch out for sludge in the sump. If you buy one, drop it and clean it straight away because it can lead to failing turbos and eventually a failed engine

[Ruan]

You'd get yourself an early V50/S40 2.0d on that sorta money, closer to the 3k mark, but given a bit more cash you'd get a better spec one, you then avoid the DPF issues of the proper PSA HDi stuff as even early on they had them - you can avoid a DPF on a V50 by keeping before sorta 55 plate - just make sure it's a Euro3 or early Euro4 - ALL 2.2HDis have DPFs... The early ones are wanktastic so you need to make sure you steer WELL clear of anything early with a DPF, or it WILL give you problems.

Mazda seemed to badly implement the 6 - they do seem to be excessively unreliable. French stuff without DPFs will as always be reliable, even if bits fall off... Volvo seems to be a good blend of Ford-y solidness and French engineering... Sounds mad that it works, but does seem to!

The Mondeo 2.0 "Puma" TDCi Camchain engine is a sack of shit, constant DMF and EGR problems, they're also about as refined as being put on a fast spin with the contents of a Machine Mart store... It makes the PSA 2.0 HDi/TDCi feel like the most smooth V12 ever.

Saabs I hate to say it, as I love them, steer clear of, you're going to find part supply issues. Vauxhalls unless you love changing EGR valves on the Z19DTH and want to be driven round in the most dull, boring vehicle ever... Steer well clear. It's quite amazing how Saab managed to actually give the 9-3s and 9-5s a sense almost of character, yet essentially the same car failed so miserably.

[Poodle]

Bear in mind getting parts for a lot of saab models is already becoming an issue, although anything from the gm era shouldnt be too bad. They are very nice, you might find yourself regretting letting the kids in lol. Personally id go for the mondeo. Well, actually id go for a five series derv estate, but figured id be helpful for a change and chose one of the options provided.

[Pete]

Alfa Romeo 156 JTD? Know bugger all about them, but they're much more interesting than many other rep mobiles IMO

[Midnightclub]

Is getting parts for saabs really that much of a hassle now? thought there was a few dedicated companies setup for this purpose specifically?

[C.A.R.]

If I had the money for an Ovlov I'd even have an estate, they look pretty smart. And I could move lots of shit around with it.

You guys are more knowledgeable than the folk on Pistonheads put it that way.

I don't want to get something which is going to throw up massive bills, so no low-profile tyres, DPF's, problematic DMFs etc. preferably. Really not bothered about outright pace, but the other chap in the office drives a Focus TDCi and it would be nice to be able to keep up (136 engine). Again, not a biggy though.

I do 40ish miles a day so a petrol isn't going to work for me. Just needs to be frugal and more refined, and have more space than a 306!

I considered a BMW 320d but I think I'm in cuckoo land to be honest. I may be able to afford to buy a car that retailed for stupid money but once something goes wrong I think I'd be knackered. And the Father in law would just love to say "I told you so" if anything were to go wrong....

[Piggy]

evo3. /endthread

[ginge191]

id look at a 3 series estate..

[1616six]

Vauxhalls unless you love changing EGR valves on the Z19DTH and want to be driven round in the most dull, boring vehicle ever... Steer well clear. It's quite amazing how Saab managed to actually give the 9-3s and 9-5s a sense almost of character, yet essentially the same car failed so miserably.

Ruan is right to a certain degree here, although the Z19DTH seems hit & miss.

I played it safe with mine & had the EGR mapped out within 10k of buying the car (Had no issues with it in that 10k mind..) Bearing in mind you are very local to the Z19DTH king up in woodbridge who does the best maps in the UK, I would still suggest this.

How Ruan can say it's a dull, boring vehicle when he has a 130 odd bhp Volvo estate.. i'll never know, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Like I say, the Vectra is a hell of a car for the cash, with £80 spent you will lose the EGR issue and have 200bhp under your right foot along with almost 50mpg. I've racked up almost 17k in the 10 months ive had mine and its not once had an issue. They do suffer with swirl flaps so look at this if you buy one.

Saabs are very nice but the interior on them is horrible, just green lights & the huge flat centre console area is very dated, the design has been around since what the 80s.

The mondeo put me off as the economy of them for a lower power car is shocking, they struggle to hit early 40's, which is a shame as looks wise i'd choose one over the vauxhall equivilant, all day long.


Overall it's a difficult one.

If i had 2.5k to spend today, I certainly wouldnt buy a volvo, saab or vectra.

Personally i'd be looking for a newer shape Leon pd130, all rounder with awesome looks. Only wish i'd found one in my budget before I got the vec.

[Toms306]

Lol, pretty much the list I looked at Chris, except the Saab.

Vectra - Shit, not just the engine, but the whole car, and snapped springs is regular
Mondeo - Good with the V6 petrol, but lots of issues with the diesels, and the 130 is slow tbh.
Mazda 6 - Again, ok with petrol, decent spec and looks, but the diesel versions are a let down.

I'd be going VAG tbh, had many cars now and I wish I'd bought another Golf instead of HDi's and Vectra. Would prefer an A3 but the golf is the poor mans version haha.

[bingham123456]

Cheap Volvo and spend the rest on POWER like the video.....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew6YwIN2IQc

[Niall]

Is getting parts for saabs really that much of a hassle now? thought there was a few dedicated companies setup for this purpose specifically?

No its not. The sweedish government put measures in place when saab went under to make sure parts were still available as technically, parts should be available up to 10 years after a car stops production. My local saab dealers that i drive past still have parts delivery service and a parts counter so i really dont see it as an issue. Its good however that people do because Saabs are becoming cheap now. You get a lot of car for your money just because people think you cant get parts for them any more.

[Ruan]

But then I could map my Volvo and be sitting the north side of 180hp without any issues...

I've driven Vectras, Mondeos, Volvos, Alfas... Trust me, the V50 comes out well on top of all of them as far as actual driving enjoyment goes the 156 is the only one that really comes close - infact they've probably got better steering feel, but the driving position is so dire it wrecked the experience for me, read most reviews and they'll all say exactly the same thing, although the steering is numb, they're very neat to drive and are actually a good laugh - even ask Ed Doe who had a drive and was genuinely impressed with how it drove...

Remember S40s/V50s are based essentially on Focus ST/Estate underpinnings... Control blade rear suspension which is widely regarded to be some of the best in the business...

[Midnightclub]

Cheers niall, Saabs seem to be the cars i keep looking back to.. power/spec for the money is ridiculously good!

[Niall]

Cheers niall, Saabs seem to be the cars i keep looking back to.. power/spec for the money is ridiculously good!

Seriously, i know i bang on about it like a broken record but my old saab was amazing. £2000 got me a x reg 95 Aero with a dealer remap, 80k, full saab history and it was mint other than stone chips (they suffer quite badly). It went really well and embarassed quite a few cars like M3s and 911s (funnily enough, thats how i got my points ) and for a barge of a car, it handled well! Interior is dated like JJ says but its bomb proof. If you get one with the premimum audio (harmon kardon - most aeros have it) then that sounds utterly amazing.

Worst bit is, i sold it after 2 months of advertising for £1400. Some 306s are advertised for more than that!

[cpikey316_]

Danny, have a look at Uksaabs

Probably the best forum i've found for Saabs and lots of good info on there!

[Midnightclub]

I genuinely don't mind the interiors on the newer saabs tbh! Bloody comfy i know that much..

Price wise though.. seen a 54 plate 210hp 9-3 aero sport.. full spec on like just over 100k.. for £1800!

Need to get myself to a dealer and test drive one really..

[Ruan]

If nothing else, at least the purchase price of any Saab is going to be so little, cost of fixing it will negligible, they've always had shit resale value for some reason, but they really are f*cking great cars... As said, how they made the GM2000 platform work well I'll never know, but they did manage it in the 9-3.

[Niall]

Only thing i would say as i said above is be careful with any saab of that age with a Garrett turbo. They ate them for fun but the aero had a TD04 which for some reason never went. My local specialist worked on them since the day they came out. He only ever replaced 2 and 1 was because of crash damage.

[Daniel306]

Dose the S60 have the same T5 engine as the 850?

[Ruan]

Not the same engine, the s60 uses the me7 managed one T5, so has VVT and a few other bits... But still a 2.3 5cyl turbo... Can't remember when they switched to the 2.5l Turbo, may only be the R that was...

[THE_Liam]

Danny, if your after a Saab get a classic 900 Turbo. Epic, epic cars.

[Midnightclub]

I assumed they were £££ as they're a classic?

[Niall]

I assumed they were £££ as they're a classic?

This. They are starting to go up and up in price!

[1616six]

I've driven Vectras, Mondeos, Volvos, Alfas... Trust me, the V50 comes out well on top of all of them as far as actual driving enjoyment goes

The thing is this comment is only valid as an opinion

A perfect example was my e46, one of the worst handling cars I've ever driven. RWD is hyped up by all the drift kings out there but hand on heart my mk4 astra handled better.

Asking a forum of car owners what car to buy will only ever lead to biased opinions from people wearing blinkers, it's clear!

Of course Ruan will say buy a Volvo as he's just got one & naturally that means sliced bread has nothing on a Volvo until the novelty wears off... Exactly the same as me with my vectra... I genuinely don't see any better combination of power, looks and economy for the money... I wouldn't as I've spent £3100 of my hard earned cash on one... It's expected for me to reply in such a way! Same with Niall, he used to have a Saab, again naturally a Saab would be a much better choice than a vectra or mondeo on that basis.

Ultimately the Volvo is nice. Seen as a snobby old mans car
Vectra is a common reps car
Saab is dated & lacking in anything appealing
Mondeo is boring & falls apart.

HOWEVER

There are thousands upon thousands of Volvo drivers who love their cars, I'm on the vectra-c forum where people own 2 or 3, love them, spend way too much on them, because they think they are great, again with saabs, they have a following similar to Volvo where people love them and refuse to drive anything unless its got a Saab badge.

It's the same with any car on the market. The fact is there isn't any cars that are not right, the best thing to do is ignore everything in this thread, you've obviously got a short list, go test drive them, see which one works for you.

3 years ago if someone told me I will have owned a vectra for nearly a year in August 13 I would have laughed, I'd never driven one til mine, I'm sure Ruan never thought his daily would be a Volvo estate a couple of years ago!

Times change, car forums are a terrible place as they will only ever be full of blinkered biased views & that will never change.

Good luck with the hunt..

[Midnightclub]

A perfect example was my e46, one of the worst handling cars I've ever driven. RWD is hyped up by all the drift kings out there but hand on heart my mk4 astra handled better.

JJ, a decent E46 handles epicly! IIRC you had the 318? The suspension setup vary massively depending on engine.. number of doors etc..

I've driven my brothers E46 328 ci after it had new wishbones, decent tyres and a proper 4 wheel alignment + camber setup etc.. they stick to the road like shit to a stick! Genuinely didn't think that something with that much weight could be thrown about so much