Ebay Coilover Spring Swap

[Foxy-jim]

Ok so if I went for a 5" helper at 20lb and 5" springs at 350lb, then that is roughly the same length as normal but it should go lower as the helper will compress more?

[mark_airey]

Ok so if I went for a 5" helper at 20lb and 5" springs at 350lb, then that is roughly the same length as normal but it should go lower as the helper will compress more?

Helper squashes flat under the weight of the car anyway, you can't get any more compressed than the coils touching each other

[Dum-Dum]

Ok so if I went for a 5" helper at 20lb and 5" springs at 350lb, then that is roughly the same length as normal but it should go lower as the helper will compress more?

Yes but only if you have the damper travel to allow for this to happen.

Your helper spring will go flat under the weight of the car and TBH you might want a 6" helper if you can find one. IIRC standard is 6.75 and 4.25 making 11inches so you wouldnt want your free length to total less then 11"

[Foxy-jim]

Exactly so if i go for more of the length as a helper then the whole thing will technically go lower. And then when I jack it up the spring wont become unseated!

[Foxy-jim]

Ok so if I went for a 5" helper at 20lb and 5" springs at 350lb, then that is roughly the same length as normal but it should go lower as the helper will compress more?

Yes but only if you have the damper travel to allow for this to happen.

Your helper spring will go flat under the weight of the car and TBH you might want a 6" helper if you can find one. IIRC standard is 6.75 and 4.25 making 11inches so you wouldnt want your free length to total less then 11"

Ye that would make sense. Are we talking damper height under compression (car weight) or jacked up?

[Dum-Dum]

When you wind the coilovers down the damper sits further down in the shock body. This distance is finite. The total travel of the damper is probably equal to the maximum drop that youll achieve (and take into account top mounts and bump stops). You can only lower as much as you have shock travel to do so cos once you are on the stops it aint going any lower and TBH once you get close to the stops the handling will be shit.

I dont think anyone actually knows how close to the bump stops we are with the standard springs all the way down. Ill see if ive got time tomorrow. Shouldnt be too hard to measure as long as i can jack the hub up to where the wheel would hold it without lifting the rest of the car.

[Foxy-jim]

Ye thats cool. Well i will see what results you get tomorrow and then hopefully will have more of an idea to what spring and helper combe to go for!

[Matt]

Tbh jim I'll probably go for the same combo as you as we both want to go mega low!

[Foxy-jim]

Ye Matt thats cool! Hopefully we can get this sorted!

[Dum-Dum]

I may speak to rally design and see if they can do 2.5" springs cheaper

[Foxy-jim]

That would be handy!

[Rippthrough]

You can always add another seat and a 4lb/inch helper if you're struggling to get that last inch or so, it'll just make the spring rate really, really soft for the first inch or so of travel, make sure your spring dividers stay over the body of the damper though or it'll fire one out sideways at speed...

[Dum-Dum]

Ripp while your online do you have any idea how much swapping from 220lb springs to 300lb springs would raise the car with all other factors being equal?

[Rippthrough]

What lengths? Or keeping same lengths as standard + standard helpers?

[Dum-Dum]

What lengths? Or keeping same lengths as standard + standard helpers?

Keeping same lengths mate.

(obviously i know i cant buy 6.75" springs but "keep the same length" makes it more understandable)

[Foxy-jim]

Dum dum did you get a chance to measure he travel today?

[Dum-Dum]

Dum dum did you get a chance to measure he travel today?

Nope, maybe today before work

[Dum-Dum]

Right I went out today and did some measuring.

With the car on the ground it was just over 11cm from the bottom of my sill to the ground and 33cm from my top wheel nut to the ground.

So jacked up, wheel off, let it down on the scisor jack till there was just over 11cm sill to floor then jacked up the ball joint till the top wheel nut was 33cm off the floor, looked in the arch and couldnt work out how to measure it properly (arse)

Anyway It looked like there was about 50-80mm between the top of the shock and the bottom of the top mount.

Now take off that 50-80 the fact i have 25mm of thread i could wind mine down by and also the bump stop is about 20cm then that means as standard the coilovers all the way down have 5-35mm of travel.

I honestly think that 6" springs and slightly shorter bump stops would see you as close to the end of your travel as youd want to go. I think on 5" springs youd live on the bump stops and that would be no fun.

[Foxy-jim]

Damn thats pretty annoying. Doesnt look like I can go much lower then...

[mark_airey]

^^ after all that I do recall me mentioning that there was about an inch of travel left in the shock on the lowest setting.............

Edit:-

My first post in this thread

OK, A couple of things here, I have the TA Technix Coilovers with the helpers in and wound right down to the last thread they had maybe 1" of travel left on the shaft before hitting the bump stop so if you go much lower at all then you will basically have no suspension apart from the bump stop which will make the handling interesting I would think!
*snip*

[Dum-Dum]

No sadly it dosent, the only way i think would be custom made coilover dampers with dropped drop link mounts proper short bodies and piston rods so insted of being -20mm - -70mm theyd be -50mm - -120mm.

Although custom might not be as hard as it sounds as shock bodies are probably universal size and if thats the same size as the hole on the 306 then your well in. You could even use the drop link mount as the stop on the shock body to save on the amount of welds needed.

Itd obv need some measuring and technical drawings but how hard can it be.

[Dum-Dum]

^^ after all that I do recall me mentioning that there was about an inch of travel left in the shock on the lowest setting.............

Edit:-

My first post in this thread

OK, A couple of things here, I have the TA Technix Coilovers with the helpers in and wound right down to the last thread they had maybe 1" of travel left on the shaft before hitting the bump stop so if you go much lower at all then you will basically have no suspension apart from the bump stop which will make the handling interesting I would think!
*snip*

Cheers mark, forgot about that with all the other stuff in this thread.

I suppose if the lads wanted to go proper low for shows then it is possible to drop another inch with shorter springs but only for being parked up.

[mark_airey]

Yeah, I looked at getting it lower when I got mine, (wouldn't be practical but thats never put me off) but much less travel on the shocks and it would be un-drivable on the roads round here! Two ways I came up with were smaller top mounts thus lifting the shock higher and lowering the car or 1.5-2" out of the shock body & 1.5-2" shorter shaft, weld back together, not the best technique but would work............also this is what a lot of the stance brigade do for cars that you can't get suspension kits for!

[Foxy-jim]

Hmmm this is annoying. Vicious burger over on pugnet has just bought some ebay coilies and is going to take out helpers and put 7" springs on. He said he will let me know what its like and if the springs unseat etc.

[Chris]

If you want low, as said remove the helper and run the standard spring as low as it will go.

Yes they sit on the stops, and no they dont handle badly.
Yes there may be a risk of the spring becoming unseated but if you managed that driving it with the car that low you'd be doing well.

Or as chris said for the 'proper' way to do it

205 coilovers fit, and are shorter but not sure how much by (need to swap L and R over for the drop links)

[Foxy-jim]

Yeah, I looked at getting it lower when I got mine, (wouldn't be practical but thats never put me off) but much less travel on the shocks and it would be un-drivable on the roads round here! Two ways I came up with were smaller top mounts thus lifting the shock higher and lowering the car or 1.5-2" out of the shock body & 1.5-2" shorter shaft, weld back together, not the best technique but would work............also this is what a lot of the stance brigade do for cars that you can't get suspension kits for!

Do you know where they sell shorter top mounts too?

[Rippthrough]

Yes there may be a risk of the spring becoming unseated but if you managed that driving it with the car that low you'd be doing well.

Doesn't matter how fookin low it is, you'll use the full extention over the next pothole you hit, you do realise the wheel leaves the floor over bumps and holes?!
And the spring vibrates up and down in waves as well as just extending and compressing? Yes, you can get away with it, no I don't want to be nearby the one time it does catch the edge.


You can strip and machine the bodies and shafts down, but by the time you've done that, it'll cost you more than buying something half decent to start with unless you already know what you're doing and have a sturdy lathe handy...
The easiest way, as was chatting with vicous about over on .net, would be to modify the top mounts to make them shorter, or lift the top of the turret upwards as close as you can get to the body - to do it properly, but that's only a job for someone who knows what they're doing too, which kinda goes agains the point of the Poundland special coilovers.
The only real thing I can suggest for those of you wanting to run that low, since you'll be on the bumpstops anyway, is to fit some decent progressive polyurethane bumpstops (like the powerflex ones the Gaz kits run), run a short, stiff main spring (Could use a stiff 4" helper spring really) that comes in just before the bumpstop, so you make the whole lot stiff enough to run on the stops but without mullering the stop, and then you run a long, soft helper for the rest of the droop travel.
The problem is the dampers won't have enough rebound to control that kind of spring rate, so although better than just slapping it on the bumpstops, it's still not going to handle very well. And your MOT tester wont like it.

Only thing I can say to sort them out properly would be to have a look around and see if anyone would shorten the units for you as a group for beer tokens, or see if the retailers can get hold of shorter inserts for them - then all you need to do is shorten the bodies to match with a grinder and welder, sorted.

For those of you not wanting arse-scraping ride heights, you've probably got just enough travel to keep the spring rate half sensible with regard to the damping (~300lbs area for the main spring), so long as you don't run any lower than what's been mentioned in the measurements above.

[mark_airey]

Phill, I have given up, clearly we are wrong.........:roll:

Yeah, I looked at getting it lower when I got mine, (wouldn't be practical but thats never put me off) but much less travel on the shocks and it would be un-drivable on the roads round here! Two ways I came up with were smaller top mounts thus lifting the shock higher and lowering the car or 1.5-2" out of the shock body & 1.5-2" shorter shaft, weld back together, not the best technique but would work............also this is what a lot of the stance brigade do for cars that you can't get suspension kits for!

Do you know where they sell shorter top mounts too?

It would involve being creative, I would speak to someone like rippthrough, I feel he is the sort of person with the knowledge required to knock something up that will work

Edit:- speak of the devil!

[Foxy-jim]

Think I want to keep helpers in. This is proper annoying!

[Dum-Dum]

Could always work out the damper size from the TUV specs and then ask TA technix for the TUV for the 205 ones and then work out from there.


TBH IMO (and to echo rippthroughs point) if you start spending out for more than different springs then you might as well pay for decent coilovers anyway. 5" or 6" springs will be able to get it on the stops for shows then be able to be wound up for road use.