Towing Question

[Orta]

So. 

If my license lets me have a total weight of 3,500kg and my car is 1,500kg, the Rallye is what 1,100kg? I can get a trailer weighing 500-1,000kg and have no legal issues?

[Dum-Dum]

In a word, No.


It's the gross weight (maximum allowable mass) of the car and of the trailer combined.


So as an example my Scooby has a kerb weight of 1500kg but it's maximum weight is 2000kg with luggage and passengers. It has a max braked towing weight of 1500kg.

If I get an Ifor Williams car transporter weighing 500kg with a max gross weight of 3500kg (so maximum of 3000kg load) and tow it with a 900kg car on it although the trailer and load is below 1500kg and the trailer load and tow car weigh less than 3500kg I break the law.

If I take same 500kg Ifor Williams trailer and have a new weight plate made saying it's MGW/MAM is 1500kg giving a max load of 1000kg then plop same 900kg car on it and go towing I'll be fine.

This practice is known as "down plating"


Also gross of trailer needs to be less than gross of car.



Ideally you need something with a 1800kg gross as car transporters tend to be 500-600kg. Also a rallye is 1200kg. You'd really be cutting it fine but it is possible.

Might just be easier doing your towing test and not worrying about the exact weights.

[welshpug]

car trailers are lighter than that unless theyre three axle fully boarded.

[306carter]

It's such a confusing subject this. Lots of wrong information online due to people not reading correctly.

Basically as Dum-Dum said it's all about maximum and plated weights.

My Vectra MAM is 2005kg and my Caravan has a MTPLM of 1490kg so I'm pretty much bang on with the plated weight but in reality I'm probably at 3100-3300kg.

[Matt-Rallye]

You can have 3500kg gross, thats trailer, load and tow vehicle.

for example my landy weighs in on the weighbridge at work at 2.2t, the trailer weighs 800kgs.. so picking up a bare shell from wolverhampton i was very borderline on my legal side!

Best bet is to just do a trailer test and be completely legal dude. im doing mine soon.

[Dum-Dum]

You can have 3500kg gross, thats trailer, load and tow vehicle.

for example my landy weighs in on the weighbridge at work at 2.2t, the trailer weighs 800kgs.. so picking up a bare shell from wolverhampton i was very borderline on my legal side!

Best bet is to just do a trailer test and be completely legal dude. im doing mine soon.

That is wrong mate!

What your Disco actually weighs is inconsequential in this situation.
The Max Gross Weight / MAM of the disco is 2700kg (ish, I CBA to find the right number) so anyone with a post 1997 licence only could only use a disco to tow a maximum of 800kg!

Again what your trailer actually weighs is largely inconsequential. I've seen your trailer and assume it has a MAM of about 3500kg (so a max load of 2700kg) but even if it was empty you'd be overweight.

2700kg MAM Disco + 3500kg MAM trailer = 6200kg Gross Train Weight.
This is even if the trailer is empty and the whole rig only actually weighs 3000kg.
And IIRC VOSA issue fines on what % you are overweight and the above makes you nearly 80% overweight.
If the Police catch you it's driving otherwise in accordance with your license which is fine, points and having your car seized as well as the insurance company raping you for the next 5 years.

In the situation you describe above you could down plate the car and trailer and still be legal though.






A 1 day trailer course and test (at about £300) for those of us that already tow would probably be less than a VOSA fine.

[Matt-Rallye]

You can have 3500kg gross, thats trailer, load and tow vehicle.

for example my landy weighs in on the weighbridge at work at 2.2t, the trailer weighs 800kgs.. so picking up a bare shell from wolverhampton i was very borderline on my legal side!

Best bet is to just do a trailer test and be completely legal dude. im doing mine soon.

That is wrong mate!

What your Disco actually weighs is inconsequential in this situation.
The Max Gross Weight / MAM of the disco is 2700kg (ish, I CBA to find the right number) so anyone with a post 1997 licence only could only use a disco to tow a maximum of 800kg!

Again what your trailer actually weighs is largely inconsequential. I've seen your trailer and assume it has a MAM of about 3500kg (so a max load of 2700kg) but even if it was empty you'd be overweight.

2700kg MAM Disco + 3500kg MAM trailer = 6200kg Gross Train Weight.
This is even if the trailer is empty and the whole rig only actually weighs 3000kg.
And IIRC VOSA issue fines on what % you are overweight and the above makes you nearly 80% overweight.
If the Police catch you it's driving otherwise in accordance with your license which is fine, points and having your car seized as well as the insurance company raping you for the next 5 years.

In the situation you describe above you could down plate the car and trailer and still be legal though.






A 1 day trailer course and test (at about £300) for those of us that already tow would probably be less than a VOSA fine.

What it actually weighs is completely relevant you prune! If i got stopped by Vosa it makes no odds what its plated too! only matters that its under or overweight for my licence entitlements. As we have the only public weighbridge in hereford its our duty to weigh vehicles guided here by vosa for testing and im well aware of the procedures. 

They CANNOT stop you at the side of the road and tell you you are overweight, it has to be proved. Hence why i weighed my truck & trailer before setting off. 99.9% of joe public doesn't have access to a weighbridge like i do.

[welshpug]

they have portable scales, have had for a few years, I've seen overloaded transit tippers being pulled into a Tesco carpark by vosa  (dvsa now iirc)


it does matter what the mam of the vehicle is, my bmw is 1400 empty, 2000 gvw.

1800kg towing weight, however on my licence i can obviously only put 1500 behind it.

so a BJ minno with a 1400kg mam is fine with a 205 on it, trailer weighs 400 kg (2 axle thing)  205 is under 1000 kg.

[Matt-Rallye]

they have portable scales, have had for a few years, I've seen overloaded transit tippers being pulled into a Tesco carpark by vosa  (dvsa now iirc)


it does matter what the mam of the vehicle is, my bmw is 1400 empty, 2000 gvw.

1800kg towing weight, however on my licence i can obviously only put 1500 behind it.

so a BJ minno with a 1400kg mam is fine with a 205 on it, trailer weighs 400 kg (2 axle thing)  205 is under 1000 kg.

So by dums reckoning, because the vehicle and trailer maximum is beyond your entitlements you cant tow that

[cully]

Grins at the younguns
B+E
C1+E
im looking at getting a Van for towing 

   

[welshpug]

#grandadlicense

[Dum-Dum]

What it actually weighs is completely relevant you prune! If i got stopped by Vosa it makes no odds what its plated too! only matters that its under or overweight for my licence entitlements. As we have the only public weighbridge in hereford its our duty to weigh vehicles guided here by vosa for testing and im well aware of the procedures. 

They CANNOT stop you at the side of the road and tell you you are overweight, it has to be proved. Hence why i weighed my truck & trailer before setting off. 99.9% of joe public doesn't have access to a weighbridge like i do.

Actual weight is only important if you are over the plated weight ie have a 3500kg trailer with 5 tonne on it or a 3500kg MAM transit with three 1 tonne bags of sand on the back.

As welshpug said VOSA CAN pull you over at the side of the road and do carry portable scales although I think the scales are only suitable up to a certain weight and not all VOSA have them.

Trust me on this, It's plated weight that's important. I know you can get pulled over and blag past most police officers who don't know the inns and outs of towing regulations or who will leave it alone if it looks alright but the rules say plated MAM of vehicle and plated MAM of tow vehicle.

they have portable scales, have had for a few years, I've seen overloaded transit tippers being pulled into a Tesco carpark by vosa  (dvsa now iirc)


it does matter what the mam of the vehicle is, my bmw is 1400 empty, 2000 gvw.

1800kg towing weight, however on my licence i can obviously only put 1500 behind it.

so a BJ minno with a 1400kg mam is fine with a 205 on it, trailer weighs 400 kg (2 axle thing)  205 is under 1000 kg.

So by dums reckoning, because the vehicle and trailer maximum is beyond your entitlements you cant tow that

No, that welshpug had there is legal 2000kg MAM car towing 1400kg MAM trailer which isn't overladen and isn't in excess of the vehicles max towing weight or heavier than the vehicle is perfectly legal. Gives a GTW of 3400kg.

[mr_fish]

I'm with Dum Dum on this.

Makes bugger all difference what the trailer actually weighs, its what it's plated to carry.

Having done my B+E I asked the VOSA examinar all the questions about this answers a basically an echo of what Dum Dum has said.

With our Ifor williams, its plated to 3500kg, our truck (Ford Ranger) only plated to carry 3000kg (iirc from the chassis plate)

So the truck's over weight as it's not to carry 3500kg when that trailer is hitched up to it regardless of it being empty or not.

Apparently thats a very grey area but VOSA have been known to pull for it.

My 2p on the matter. S'all total bollocks though. Friend of mine is 18 working for a local farm contractor's and drives a Fendt 720 and pulls a twin deck stock trailer to market. Weighed in at 40 Ton the other day. He doesn't have a B+E, just a tractor licence from 16 then recently his car licence. Go Figure.

[Matt-Rallye]

There has been a massive crackdown lately on local hauliers using young lads in jcb fastracs hauling artic trailers fully loaded with farm kit

Makes more sense not to try and understand the law,

As i also advised.. better to just do the licence and be well within your entitlements Or just be old like cully

[cully]

As i also advised.. better to just do the licence and be well within your entitlements Or just be old like cully

HAHA
there are some advantages

[allye]

Can I just jump on here with a quick one?

I'm planning on pulling a small 16ft caravan behind the 306, it weighs on or less than a tonne can't remember right now. That will be fine right?

[306carter]

Can I just jump on here with a quick one?

I'm planning on pulling a small 16ft caravan behind the 306, it weighs on or less than a tonne can't remember right now. That will be fine right?

More information? You need MTPLM of caravan model of 306 or weight. Date of when you passed your test?

[allye]

Non trailer license and a 2000 HDI, no clue on the caravan. It's very small 2berth will have to double check.

[cully]

you need the car weight plate info
you need the caravan weight Plate info
then advice can be offered

---

hdi dturbo 3 door plate reads

1585Kg = Gross vehicle mass (GVM)
2585Kg = Gross train mass (GTM)
950Kg = Maximum permissible front axle mass
860Kg = Maximum permissible rear axle mass

2585-1585=1000KG

Trailer+load = Maximum of 1000KG? @100% there is an unwritten 85% good practice rule =850KG
legally you can tow 750kg unbraked licence depending

i towed a 2 berth with the hdi even with a stg1 map the car didnt feel big enough
i wouldn't like to take it any distance as it didn't fill me with confidence unlike my Mondeo i have now

[Orta]

No idea why they have to make this so complicated. Anyone know how much a few towing lessons and a towing test will set me back?

[Dum-Dum]

Non trailer license and a 2000 HDI, no clue on the caravan. It's very small 2berth will have to double check.

Some people with very recent licences (iirc since 19th Jan 2013) and only tow 750kg full stop
A GTi6 has a max towing weight of 1250kg, some of the other diesels can tow 1150kg.
Check the plate on the caravan and the plate on the car and that'll tell you all you need.

No idea why they have to make this so complicated. Anyone know how much a few towing lessons and a towing test will set me back?

Not complicated at all mate. The waters are only muddied by the huge amount of misinformation on the internet.

All you need to know is;
- Plate on car (for gross vehicle weight and max towing weight)
- Plate on trailer (for gross trailer weight)
- Category of licence and when obtained (Post 2013 = 750kg max. Post 1997 and pre 2013 = 3500kg gross train weight which is gross weight of car and gross weight of trailer as on the plates combined unless using a 3500kg transit or similar to tow when you can tow up to 750kg giving a GTW of 4250kg. License pre 1997 has B+E towing so can tow anything within the capabilities of the vehicle and is potentially up to about 7000kg GTW)
- Then make sure you don't overload the trailer.





If you have experience with a trailer you can do a 1 day course for about £300 including the test.

[maxaret]

Not really relevant to this thread but here is a pic of my old glider trailer,taken in 1990 at Old Sarum airfield near Salisbury, Wilts.
Car was an Auto - only one of two autos I ever owned (I was having severe left elbow probs at the time),the honda was soon replaced by a Volvo 264 auto with a 2.7 V6 (PSA) - a great tow car with lots of torque

[Blaze Addict]

Not really relevant to this thread but here is a pic of my old glider trailer,taken in 1990 at Old Sarum airfield near Salisbury, Wilts.
Car was an Auto - only one of two autos I ever owned (I was having severe left elbow probs at the time),the honda was soon replaced by a Volvo 264 auto with a 2.7 V6 (PSA) - a great tow car with lots of torque

That was the same motor they put in the Delorean iirc and when they made Back to the Future it didn't sound meaty enough so they dubbed a Porsche engine sound over it