307 hdi.. Same as 306?

[Matt-Rallye]

As per title..

Got a 307 2.0 hdi at work with a rear end shunt, could i drop the engine and gearbox out wholesale and fit it too my 306 hdi? As mines pretty much worn out on 192k

Matt.

[dashmader]

Is it siemens or bosch management?

[Poodle]

Don't these have a dmf and hydro clutch? Aside from that it's only a few extras and the management that change.

[bashbarnard]

Essentially the same. Just remove ALL auxiliaries from the 306 the fi on bare 307 block. They also have diffrent thermostat hoising on if I remember so that also has to be changed

[Piggy]

Different gearbox isnt it?!

[jammapic]

Theoretically, they are the same - bar the changes people have said above...

That said - in the ones I've mapped, it seems easier to extract power from them. For example, on a 306 HDi, with the stock r65 pump on, you tend to run into difficulties with the pump holding pressure with big fuel requests at around 300lbft and 165hp. You can do it, but you feel you are working against the car.

On the 307's I've done, 320lbft and 175hp can be done pretty easily, without the ECU cutting power, with the car totally, stock (bar a single mass conversion and clutch upgrade).

On "themilkman"'s car, we mapped it with just a decat, and straight pipe and it made 300lbft and 175hp with very few actual ECU mods. It drove like a stock one!! And, there was more to come, even on the stock 1500bar rail sensor, but then he sold it and bought a Leon Cupra TDi before we had finished playing.

Maybe it's just they are a bit newer, have done less miles etc... but that's my experience.

JP

[Matt-Rallye]

Good stuff chaps! i will have a closer look at it in a bit, Aslong as the base motor is the same and the gearbox can be converted to cable clutch i will attempt it as its low miles and looks / sounds a tidy engine

[mr_fish]

best off using a 306 hdi gearbox really and then just use the 307 engine block

[Matt-Rallye]

Whats the difference in engine blocks my man?

[mr_fish]

Effectively I would say the block would be the same, just different Aux setup, water pipe routing, inlet top pipe & turbo (if its the 110) also isn't the cam cover different for the oil filler?

I believe (was some time ago) a couple friends of mine put a 306 hdi block in a 307 when they bought one with a knackard engine.

Would be fair hassle I imagine to try and retro fit a cable setup to a hydro g/box. hence just refit your box or another from a 306 hdi.

Should be a worth while swap if you have a decent DW10 there

[Matt-Rallye]

Hmm starting too sound like more hassle than its worth :/

Main reason im wanting too change is because my gearbox is notchy and syncro is fudged for 3rd gear! also my engie has done 193k and it just tired.

The DW10 we have here is the 90 not the 110. think i should hold out for a 110 406 hdi so i can just dump it straight into the 306?

[Toms306]

Only 193k?? Engine should still be fine, it's the parts attached to it that break (injectors/turbos/pumps etc...).

But I agree about the gearboxes, they're shite tbh, all got whiny diffs now and 3rd gear is broken on most (mine included at just 127k!).

The 406 also uses a hydro clutch btw...

[mr_fish]

Depends how keen you are, the 90 should be all the same setup (turbo & inlet) as the 306

get 307 engine block. strip the aux setup, and the DMF (if it has one)

Remove 306 engine, build 307 lump up with loom etc etc.

Refit with good gearbox

boom...job done.

[Poodle]

Only 193k?? Engine should still be fine, it's the parts attached to it that break (injectors/turbos/pumps etc...).

But I agree about the gearboxes, they're shite tbh, all got whiny diffs now and 3rd gear is broken on most (mine included at just 127k!).

The engine will be suffering at that mileage, considering its previous life. They start to give up the ghost before 300k even when well looked after.

Are the gearboxes really a problem? I've genuinely not seen one with issues that didn't belong to dumdum lol. I ran mine for 10000 miles with all the abuse, 250lbft and no oil and it just developed a slight whine.

[Matt-Rallye]

Only 193k?? Engine should still be fine, it's the parts attached to it that break (injectors/turbos/pumps etc...).

But I agree about the gearboxes, they're shite tbh, all got whiny diffs now and 3rd gear is broken on most (mine included at just 127k!).

The engine will be suffering at that mileage, considering its previous life. They start to give up the ghost before 300k even when well looked after.

Are the gearboxes really a problem? I've genuinely not seen one with issues that didn't belong to dumdum lol. I ran mine for 10000 miles with all the abuse, 250lbft and no oil and it just developed a slight whine.

306's and me do NOT get on in the gearbox department!

[Toms306]

The engine will be suffering at that mileage, considering its previous life. They start to give up the ghost before 300k even when well looked after.

Are the gearboxes really a problem? I've genuinely not seen one with issues that didn't belong to dumdum lol. I ran mine for 10000 miles with all the abuse, 250lbft and no oil and it just developed a slight whine.

All the blocks I've stripped (between 126k and 185k) look exactly the same inside, bores still look new, pistons are fine (though the skirt Teflon falls off on removal for some reason), and they don't get the cam wear like I've seen on other engines either. Obviously it depends how its been abused, but these were all several owner, part history cars...

As for the boxes, maybe its the way I drive lol, tend to drop into 3rd gear for overtakes every 10 minutes and I tend to hit bumps and potholes harder than I probably should. But I seem to have gearbox issues on all 306s, even the 1.8 had terrible diff whine and that wasn't exactly quick lol. But the HDi's are much worse, as above they all have diff whine now. And the current one I have sounds almost as bad as the TU's I had, the knob is wobbling all over the place, 3rd gear only slots in half the time without a crunch or double de-clutch and it doesn't ride smooth in 3rd or 4th any more which is annoying under motorway speeds. Its a new clutch and linkages as well so they re fine. Thought it was a driveshaft but they've also been swapped so its definitely the 'box.

306's and me do NOT get on in the gearbox department!

Hmm, glad its not just me!

[powerandtorque]

... and yet I don't think I've had a single gearbox issue on any of the 306's or Xsara's I've had.

One of my current 306 HDi's is on 250k and the original gearbox is still good - no whines, no rattles, all the synchros are good etc.

I'd go as far as to say that 5 speed BE boxes are tough as old boots providing that you treat them with a degree of mechanical sympathy and change the oil periodically, making sure to use proper OE Total/Esso BV 75W80 as the synchros in particular really don't seem to like running with the wrong oil grade.

[dashmader]

My gearbox as 320.000 on the 306 and 160.000 on the 307 and not an issue at all. Both até like new and the 306 is remap from 150.000