TPS swap for 307 pedal

[DeeTurbo]

Hi all,

I'm getting proper pissed off with the shitty TPS on these HDI's.

They use to be £70 but are now around £400!!!!

I can't seem to find any good ones from breakers now so I thought what about fitting a pedal from a 307, the one with the TPS incorporated?

Does anyone know if they are the same thing but made smaller to go on the end of the pedal and would it be compatible with our ECU?

[Niall]

Well if you can pick up one from the scrappy, just do a quick test on it (assuming its 3 pin TPS). You want to know the voltage at fully up and voltage at fully down with a reference voltage of 5v. If it matches the standard 306 one then get fabricating!

[DeeTurbo]

The original is a four wire unit as there are two circuits.

Yeah but good point, I'll get one from the breakers. I was feeling lazy and wondered if anyone had already done any work on this.

I've been meaning to power one up and get a scope on the faulty ones I've got to see what is actually happening.

[Tom85]

What are the issues your having with the TPS?

[Niall]

The original is a four wire unit as there are two circuits.

Yeah but good point, I'll get one from the breakers. I was feeling lazy and wondered if anyone had already done any work on this.

I've been meaning to power one up and get a scope on the faulty ones I've got to see what is actually happening.

Ah ok. I was just making the assumption they were a similar build to the GTI tps. Still, same principal applies. You just have two pins to get measurements from

[DeeTurbo]

What are the issues your having with the TPS?

The issue is it's f*cking shit design. When driving the car will lose power if you pump the pedal it will pick up again, also sometimes when starting the car the revs will go up to 1.5k and sit there. Turning the ignition off and on again sometimes sorts it.

Ah ok. I was just making the assumption they were a similar build to the GTI tps. Still, same principal applies. You just have two pins to get measurements from

I'm not sure but the below is how I understand it.

Not sure about the GTI ones but I think the HDI ones are a bit more complex because it's the sole control over the throttle. By that I mean the GTI still has a physical link to the throttle butterfly and the TPS is for the ECU to know what the butterfly is doing but with the HDI are fully throttle by wire. There are two circuits, one is the main and the other as a check. When they don't correspond there is a fault logged and the car drives like shit.

Nail, have you taken a GTI one apart? I was wondering if they are just a wiper on a track? The HDI ones are two magnets passing over two coils.

[Tom85]

The issue is it's f*cking shit design. When driving the car will lose power if you pump the pedal it will pick up again, also sometimes when starting the car the revs will go up to 1.5k and sit there. Turning the ignition off and on again sometimes sorts it.

Fair play. Can't say I've experienced any issues on 7 different HDIs on milage varying from 80k to over 200k - maybe you've been unlucky. If you manage to get a 307 pedal working would nicely get rid of the accelerator cable which seems to vary in stiffness on every 306..

Have you not looked at 206 HDI 90's in the scrappies? I'm sure even the later models up to 2005 models had the same TPS as a 306?

[DeeTurbo]

Fair play. Can't say I've experienced any issues on 7 different HDIs on milage varying from 80k to over 200k - maybe you've been unlucky. If you manage to get a 307 pedal working would nicely get rid of the accelerator cable which seems to vary in stiffness on every 306..

Have you not looked at 206 HDI 90's in the scrappies? I'm sure even the later models up to 2005 models had the same TPS as a 306?

The cable issue is the routing. I rerouted mine when I got the car and I've not had an issue. Nice light and smooth pedal even after 300k miles.

Once they go heavy you need to replace the cable, but don't get the EPC one as they're shit.

Yeah, I've had them off a 206, Xsara and 406's in the past. I've not had a problem with my girl friends 206 2.0 HDI or with the 306 estate I've got. I think there is something about the wiring that causes it on mine and early HDI's or heat soak of the rad or even water ingress through the grill.


These TPS's are also on the 1.6 petrol 206's and probably on other cars to.

[powerandtorque]

Could you perhaps relocate the TPS to somewhere slightly less exposed to lessen the chance of problems? Should just be a case of extending the wiring (or pulling it back on the loom) and making a suitable bracket to hold it, like people sometimes need to do on FMIC installs.

[Jonny81191]

Could you perhaps relocate the TPS to somewhere slightly less exposed to lessen the chance of problems? Should just be a case of extending the wiring (or pulling it back on the loom) and making a suitable bracket to hold it, like people sometimes need to do on FMIC installs.

This TBH, extend the wiring and put it in behind the dash with a short throttle cable?

[DeeTurbo]

Could you perhaps relocate the TPS to somewhere slightly less exposed to lessen the chance of problems? Should just be a case of extending the wiring (or pulling it back on the loom) and making a suitable bracket to hold it, like people sometimes need to do on FMIC installs.

Yeah that was plan A but I was thinking of going straight to the ECU instead of using the existing cable in case it's the chassis loom plug or something damaged in the engine loom.

Could you perhaps relocate the TPS to somewhere slightly less exposed to lessen the chance of problems? Should just be a case of extending the wiring (or pulling it back on the loom) and making a suitable bracket to hold it, like people sometimes need to do on FMIC installs.

This TBH, extend the wiring and put it in behind the dash with a short throttle cable?

I suppose I could try that but there is bugger all room there.

[Ruan]

Get a proper pedal - whenever I get a HDi I'll definitely be doing this!

I'd be near 99% certain that a 307 pedal (frankly any Bosch pedal...) should work however... Essentially they're a two pot device, at 0% throttle one pot reads full resistance and the other reads 0% resistance, and conversely at 100% throttle. This is a good check since if you short one, it's obvious which is wrong.

I'm sure almost all pedals should work - http://www.forum307.com/viewtopic.php?t=31409

That chap appears to be adding cruise to a 1.6 16v 307 with fly-by-wire, but it's a phase 1 so has the silly throttle cable > potentiometer. Seemingly the 307 pedal has a bit built in for if you floor it, it overrides the cruise control/speed limit, but we can ignore that. From the looks of things you just have to change the plug to the one for the 307 pedal and off you go.

Because I have size 16 bloody feet - the 306 pedal box isn't great, so my intention is to build one from varying bits, hopefully using a floor mounted throttle and different pedal box.

[Seb_Ryan]

Ruan, have a look at pedal boxes for kit cars, can get a "flat pack" kit for about 40 quid, just needs abit of welding and assmebling.
I have simular problems to you, but in a westfield theres even less room so floor mounted was the only way to go

[pro_steve]

If you like I could look at a map from a 307 and a 306 to see if the linearisation and voltages are the same? Drop me a PM if you're going to fit one...

[Tom85]

The cable issue is the routing. I rerouted mine when I got the car and I've not had an issue. Nice light and smooth pedal even after 300k miles.

Once they go heavy you need to replace the cable, but don't get the EPC one as they're shit.

Hmm, I've tried a few positions with my cable and it does male a bit of difference but not much - I guess it's the cable. I replaced the inner cable on my old 306 and it was fine for a bit went heavy again. I'd be interested to see if the 307 pedal works to get rid of the cable!

[DeeTurbo]

Get a proper pedal - whenever I get a HDi I'll definitely be doing this!

I'd be near 99% certain that a 307 pedal (frankly any Bosch pedal...) should work however... Essentially they're a two pot device, at 0% throttle one pot reads full resistance and the other reads 0% resistance, and conversely at 100% throttle. This is a good check since if you short one, it's obvious which is wrong.

I'm sure almost all pedals should work - http://www.forum307.com/viewtopic.php?t=31409

That chap appears to be adding cruise to a 1.6 16v 307 with fly-by-wire, but it's a phase 1 so has the silly throttle cable > potentiometer. Seemingly the 307 pedal has a bit built in for if you floor it, it overrides the cruise control/speed limit, but we can ignore that. From the looks of things you just have to change the plug to the one for the 307 pedal and off you go.

Because I have size 16 bloody feet - the 306 pedal box isn't great, so my intention is to build one from varying bits, hopefully using a floor mounted throttle and different pedal box.

That's a great link and it looks like the two will be interchangeable.

If you like I could look at a map from a 307 and a 306 to see if the linearisation and voltages are the same? Drop me a PM if you're going to fit one...

I might have to take you up on that as to make sure but it does look like it should work ok.

The cable issue is the routing. I rerouted mine when I got the car and I've not had an issue. Nice light and smooth pedal even after 300k miles.

Once they go heavy you need to replace the cable, but don't get the EPC one as they're shit.

Hmm, I've tried a few positions with my cable and it does male a bit of difference but not much - I guess it's the cable. I replaced the inner cable on my old 306 and it was fine for a bit went heavy again. I'd be interested to see if the 307 pedal works to get rid of the cable!

Once it's gone heavy it won't make any difference what you do. The only thing you can do is replace the outer as it's that part that is worn, basically the plastic sheath that goes between the cable and metal spiral has worn through.

I've got a feeling it's not going to be that easy mounting the pedal but we'll see how it goes.

[Daniel306]

I have a 2005 2.0 16v 307, I could take photos and such if needed

[DeeTurbo]

I have a 2005 2.0 16v 307, I could take photos and such if needed

Thanks for the offer but I'll just get one from the breakers tomorrow morning.

[Tom85]

Once it's gone heavy it won't make any difference what you do. The only thing you can do is replace the outer as it's that part that is worn, basically the plastic sheath that goes between the cable and metal spiral has worn through.

The outer looks like an pain in the arse to change at the bulkhead access wise. Think I'll just live with it - it's not too bad just a bit heavy compared to some others I've driven.

Good luck with the 307 pedal!

[DeeTurbo]

It isn't that bad to change. There is a rubber ball and socket type arrangement at the bulkhead. If you lub up your ball it should pop in, lol.

The EPC cables are shit and a pain. I would recommend the ones from the dealers but they are twice the price.

[Tom85]

Easier than a clutch cable? I managed that. Does it just pull out the bulkhead then?

Thanks

[DeeTurbo]

A lot easier then the clutch cable and yeah the cable just pulls out the bulkhead.

[Tom85]

Ah that's good to know - thanks.

[pro_steve]

Had a look and the linearisation curve seems to be the same in all the HDI's meaning if you wire it up correctly it should just work.

[DeeTurbo]

Well I bought a 307 pedal and I can't be arsed in trying to get it to fit. I might have a play on a car in a breakers yard where the dash has been removed and see from there.

But the main reason I'm posting is on servicebox it says the TPS that fits my car is 1920X1 and that is now £270 but on eBay there is a new TPS for £90 but it's part number is 1920AK, now I wonder what car that would be from? I've ordered one to see how that goes and I'll be a checking before putting it on but I can't see what the difference would be? In the ad it says it fits 306's as well.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-206-30...4d154eb04c

What do you guys think?