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+--- Thread: Someone do it.. :D (/showthread.php?tid=867)
Someone do it.. :D - silverzx - 12-01-2012
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260883244584
Someone please do it... :mrgreen:
Re: Someone do it.. :D - mark_airey - 12-01-2012
silverzx Wrote:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260883244584
Someone please do it... :mrgreen:
Just no!
my turbo would just drag the whole thing down the intake anyway when it came on boost!
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/upgrade ... arging.htm
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/car-tech ... technology.
First one is just a college guy, but the second one shows that large companies are taking this technology very seriously.
Mainly because next gen cars might end up being electric so wont have an engine to drive the superchargers.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
http://www.automotive-electronicspecifi ... ybrids.asp
http://www.automotive-electronicspecifi ... ybrids.asp
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
Just so there is no confusion, I am not sayig the above item will or wont work. I am just saying that it is a possibility in the future that electric superchargers will be used on cars and could be used on ours.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/electric ... by-20.html
Re: Someone do it.. :D - mark_airey - 12-01-2012
Pompey306mark Wrote:Mainly because next gen cars might end up being electric so wont have an engine to drive the superchargers.
Seriously, think about what you have just said there! if next gen cars are electric WTF would they need more air from a supercharger for??
Also, as rippthough stated in the other thread these were brought up in, you would need so much power at 12v to spin the charger fast enough to make a difference that its just not a viable option!
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Scott - 12-01-2012
Mark it uses the power from the electric motor to supercharge the electric motor for more power.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - mark_airey - 12-01-2012
Scott Wrote:Mark it uses the power from the electric motor to supercharge the electric motor for more power.
ROFL, is this an internal combustion powered electric motor that we are talking about?? otherwise known as an engine?!
now go and pack
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Scott - 12-01-2012
I'm packed, only thing left is the laptop! Cab is taking me to the airport in 15 minutes. Sure I'll end up back on here on my phone though shortly. Flight's not until 1!
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
one of the companies developing the technology,
http://www.cpowert.com/products/vtes.htm
Re: Someone do it.. :D - mark_airey - 12-01-2012
Pompey306mark Wrote:one of the companies developing the technology,
http://www.cpowert.com/products/vtes.htm
Quote:Specification Summary
Maximum Pressure Ratio 1.45
Maximum Speed 70,000rpm
Time to Maximum Speed <350ms
Peak Shaft Power 1.8kW
Current Draw - Idle 1.5 Amps
Current Draw - Acceleration 350 Amps
Current Draw - Steady State 220 Amps
Operating temperatures -40oC to +125oC
350Amps!!!!!
Still makes more sense to me to just run it off a belt from the crank pulley, less to go wrong and just as efficient! you could argue that the charger would take some power from the engine but no different to what the alternator would require when under load to make the sort of power it would need to run the charger! :?
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
I am not arguing that these things will work, I am just saying that in the future they will. I have no doubt.
I have just read a interesting blog from a guy saying these things are shit, which they are. But he has read about the new M3 being Tri-charged and one of those will be electrically controlled to decrease lag, and then the other two will be standard exhaust driven turbos.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
"Before we continue, I just want to get this out of the way. Word has it that the new BMW M3 is going to have a tri-turbo engine and that one of those blowers is going to be electric"
"I still haven't read any real definitive info on the BMW units, but from what I understand right now, they're working on a pretty clever idea. I believe the idea is to have a powerful motor in line with the impeller that will be used to help spool up the turbo to prevent lag. The turbo is then powered by the exhaust as normal. The electric motor could never keep up.
The really clever part though is that I've read they're going to do away with the wastegate and instead, use the motor as a generator to recover excess energy while keeping the turbo from over-boosting. The real engineering feat in all that, I'm sure, was to make all the bits withstand the heat involved.
Kudos to BMW for thinking outside the box. Not that we should be surprised.
"
Re: Someone do it.. :D - spawn - 12-01-2012
Could something like this really work?
Re: Someone do it.. :D - mark_airey - 12-01-2012
spawn Wrote:Could something like this really work?
If you mean the cheap shit off ebay like the OP then NO! they are stupid and more of a restriction than a help!
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
spawn Wrote:Could something like this really work?
Yes, but not yet and not the cheap ones off ebay as mark said.
But I bet it will come to the point that these will be used on newer cars.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - mark_airey - 12-01-2012
just to continue this -
Quote:Electric superchargers vs. Belt Driven
In general, while electric superchargers are less expensive than belt-driven superchargers, the horsepower boost that they provide is also significantly less.[citation needed] However, belt driven mechanical superchargers consume some of the power produced by engine in particular at low revolutions (see Supercharging versus turbocharging supercharger), while electric superchargers are decoupled from an engine via an oversized energy storage (e.g. several electric accumulators in series)[dubious â?? discuss]. This results in different "somewhat raw" boost supplied during low revolution regime of the engine.
Power supply for electric superchargers
An electric supercharger, if supplied by series of common stock electric accumulators, runs independent of the engine to which it provides its boost. However, electrical energy consumed is often higher (in the range of 100 A e.g. Power of 10 kW = 12V * 833 A) than what a production-line generator (e.g. alternator) of the engine can supply. Larger alternators are therefore fitted to recharge accumulators (often reconnected from serial to parallel circuit) during the engine run without the boost.
Efficiency
The efficiency of electric supercharges is curbed by several energy conversion losses (alternator for charging), damp energy while charging the accumulators and compressor providing boost. The losses are in general higher than direct kinematic linkage of intake air compressor to engine crankshaft.
So in summary - electric is less efficient than using a belt! it will require a lot of work to make it better than the current 'norm' or a belt run SC.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Pompey306mark - 12-01-2012
Crazy, looks fun.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... to_09.html
Re: Someone do it.. :D - ginge191 - 12-01-2012
just looking at a few videos on youtube, and its literally a blower - it has two speeds to it, on and off, now correct me if im wrong but surely at higher rev ranges and speeds, the lack of 'blowing' that this would create would surely hinder the performance?
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Ed Doe - 12-01-2012
Apart from them being clearly a massive-fail, I'd be worried about using one of those long-term if they did do anything. Surely given that there's only a small fuelling 'adjustment range' that the ecu can provide to prevent lean/rich running, a) the stock ecu would have a shit-fit if it saw boost, and b) it'd run lean and fook the engine quite quickly...
Re: Someone do it.. :D - spawn - 12-01-2012
You could buy a bilge blower and make your own kit for half the price.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Poodle - 12-01-2012
It might be less efficient than a belt-driven 'charger by direct comparison, but I think the system could have big advantages when considered in relation to an average driving cycle. For one thing it's not going to be required all the time, it will only be drawing power when the engine is building boost, whereas a normal 'charger saps power from the drivetrain all the time. Particularly valuable at cruising speeds. Also, as mentioned in a few articles, if combined with a normal turbo it could actually charge itself and do away with the wg at the same time, brilliant!
Re: Someone do it.. :D - mark_airey - 12-01-2012
Poodle Wrote:It might be less efficient than a belt-driven 'charger by direct comparison, but I think the system could have big advantages when considered in relation to an average driving cycle. For one thing it's not going to be required all the time, it will only be drawing power when the engine is building boost, whereas a normal 'charger saps power from the drivetrain all the time. Particularly valuable at cruising speeds. Also, as mentioned in a few articles, if combined with a normal turbo it could actually charge itself and do away with the wg at the same time, brilliant!
I get the whole belt taking power but its hardly a noticeable amount, as tech improves on the electric motor side it might become a viable option but currently I think it would be really hard to implement and the power you save by not having the charger belt would be taken up by the power sapped by the alternator trying to run the motor! not to mention the epic size cables you would need to power the motor!
The bit I really don't get though is how would it do away with the wastegate on a turbo??
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Poodle - 12-01-2012
From Mark's quote above:
"The really clever part though is that I've read they're going to do away with the wastegate and instead, use the motor as a generator to recover excess energy while keeping the turbo from over-boosting. The real engineering feat in all that, I'm sure, was to make all the bits withstand the heat involved."
Also has the nifty side effect of removing a lot of the previously necessary wiring, since generation is done in-house as well.
Re: Someone do it.. :D - Jonny81191 - 12-01-2012
fit one to a gokart for lols
Re: Someone do it.. :D - spawn - 12-01-2012
This someone could be me, but im not paying £150 for a kit. Im tempted to make my own as a test.