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+--- Thread: td04 remount (/showthread.php?tid=5582)
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td04 remount - petegledhill - 15-08-2012
ok so i have a tdo4 from a bug eye impreza ready to be attached to my 306 but rather than go down the route of mounting bhind the engine under the inletfannymould where its a pain to perform even the simplest of checks i would much rather have the turbo located above where the original air box would have been, this in my mind for the small ammount of extra effort will have so many gains, unless some one can think of something ive missed, also imagine the noise from a front bumper exit straight through shweeet!!!!
RE: td04 remount - cwspellowe - 15-08-2012
Small amount of effort? Didn't realise it was a small amount of effort to reroute IC pipes, fab a new exhaust mani and downpipes?
RE: td04 remount - Jenkosowls - 15-08-2012
![[Image: DSCN0493.jpg]](http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo261/pug306lx/DSCN0493.jpg)
RE: td04 remount - Jarrus - 16-08-2012
Thats matts 2.1.... nice job it is...
and yeah, having done it myself, mounting the turbo on the gearbox is a lot of work....
![[Image: 20120602_145929.jpg]](http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g452/jarrus464/20120602_145929.jpg)
battery has to go in the boot, extra welding, more pipework... the only reason I did it was space, there is no space for a TD04 behind a 2.1 whereas on a 1.9 with a t2/k14 manifold there is, plus your spool time will be better
RE: td04 remount - CJ_Derv - 16-08-2012
Behind engine is ideal for the 1.9 as jarrus says spool time quicker would imagine there would be more lag if mounted above box. it isnt that difficult to mount behind engine, Im currently in the process of making the adaptor plates to sell.
If you take the engine off the mount and rock forward you would be amazed how much room you have and once bolted up and checked shouldnt be any reason to get behind there unless your changing it lol
RE: td04 remount - Mattcheese31 - 16-08-2012
could start another thread but i'll try a highjack first . .lol . . . .does anyone keep the wastegate working on these and MBC them? everyone seems to be planning on welding them up . . .rather keep mine, does it mean welding the WG bracket on to the new manifold? . . . . .
RE: td04 remount - darrenjlobb - 16-08-2012
There is no issues keeping wastegates working behind the motor, just involves a bit more work which most people cant be arsed with, but its no big deal, just new bracket / bent arm in most cases required...
RE: td04 remount - Mattcheese31 - 16-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 09:42 AM)darrenjlobb Wrote: There is no issues keeping wastegates working behind the motor, just involves a bit more work which most people cant be arsed with, but its no big deal, just new bracket / bent arm in most cases required...
ok cheers Darren, i haven't picked one up yet so wasn't sure, seems like a better idea keeping it working with a MBC wouldn't you say? . . . .or am i talking to the wrong person? . .
RE: td04 remount - CJ_Derv - 16-08-2012
As Darren has mentioned in other threads matt, on bigger turbos the wastegate isnt really needed so can be welded iirc Darren mention some vans trucks tracktors etc dont even have wastegates on
while turbo is off get it welded up on bigger blower and get it fitted
RE: td04 remount - Mattcheese31 - 16-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 09:52 AM)CJ_Derv Wrote: As Darren has mentioned in other threads matt, on bigger turbos the wastegate isnt really needed so can be welded iirc Darren mention some vans trucks tracktors etc dont even have wastegates on
yeah i know, we aren't driving vans, trucks and tractors though . . .(well ermmm tractors ok yeah) . . . . .
. . . . . . . i know it's what most people do, doesn't mean it's the best way to go about it though . .
RE: td04 remount - CJ_Derv - 16-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 09:55 AM)Mattcheese31 Wrote:(16-08-2012, 09:52 AM)CJ_Derv Wrote: As Darren has mentioned in other threads matt, on bigger turbos the wastegate isnt really needed so can be welded iirc Darren mention some vans trucks tracktors etc dont even have wastegates on
yeah i know, we aren't driving vans, trucks and tractors though . . .(well ermmm tractors ok yeah) . . . . .
I remember Ruan and Darren mentioning its not worth welding the T2 and K14 wastegate up as they are smaller turbos and can easily run 30psi on actuator but bigger turbos are fine
RE: td04 remount - Ricky - 16-08-2012
I think an EGT gauge is a must on a welded wastegated turbo though, just incase.
RE: td04 remount - Mattcheese31 - 16-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 11:21 AM)Ricky Wrote: I think an EGT gauge is a must on a welded wastegated turbo though, just incase.
this is why i'd like to keep the wastegate, don't wanna be throwing rods if i can help it . . . . . .this is my daily, .
RE: td04 remount - CJ_Derv - 16-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 11:21 AM)Ricky Wrote: I think an EGT gauge is a must on a welded wastegated turbo though, just incase.
I think this is next on my to do list as dont wanna be blowing the TD04 but theres not a whisp of smoke on boost and only running 24psi and im more than happy with the performance for the boost pressure
RE: td04 remount - Ruan - 16-08-2012
It depends what you want out the car...
If you're looking for a max performance car, yeah - weld the wastegate, I know in a way me and many people disagree on this - I've had various turbos dewastegated, but then I'd never recommend it to someone who uses their car daily and drives it hard... You're likely to melt something unless you're monitoring the engine 24/7 - you're likely to get things very hot...
Everyone will just say "I'll just use the fuel to control the boost" - which yes you can, but that's pretty pointless, you're making the turbo probably produce 28psi or so, when all that's needed for a clean burn is probably 22-24psi - reducing the pumping losses of the engine, exhaust backpressure, charge temperatures, cooling system load blah de blah... It'll go well, but you could spend 2 hours more sorting out a wastegate and do it properly from day one - yes, tractors, combines, trucks etc don't have wastegates, but they also have turbochargers the size of small houses with massive A/Rs which keep backpressure down... They don't just stick a turbo on then tune it, they tune the turbo with regards to it's housings, wheel sizes, trims etc all in with the injector pump calibration all to work reliably from the factory... Welding the wastegate shut on a random turbo with some injector pump with a massive pump element wanged on injecting fuel all over the place is a recipe for damaging things...
We all do it - I'm mad for a good 11mm injector pump that bogs out, coals like feck off boost, but some people have different uses for their cars and in total honesty, sometimes don't have the most amount of mechanical sympathy when it comes to cars... When you see random people coming on the forum with stock bosch pumps saying "Yeah, I welded the wastegate shut and she goes now because someone on 306oc said it was OK to" then wonders why the head is warped to high heaven after their stint to 130mph up a hill in the middle of summer with the bonnet lining off and a stock exhaust with a 1.4 backbox on - that's when people are just going to shag their engines lol...
Some use it to get to work every day, others use it as a their hobby, a toy almost to tune and laugh when it breaks...
RE: td04 remount - Mattcheese31 - 16-08-2012
thanks for the lengthy reply Ruan . . . . . .don't get me wrong it's quite amusing to see pics of holes in the bottom end bend rods etc . . . . . but at 34 with kids about 3 jobs and a nagging fcuking wife i don't have time to be changing blocks all the time . .
. . . .hmmmm although would get me out the way i suppose except i don't have a bloody garage . . . .
RE: td04 remount - CJ_Derv - 16-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 11:36 AM)Ruan Wrote: It depends what you want out the car...
If you're looking for a max performance car, yeah - weld the wastegate, I know in a way me and many people disagree on this - I've had various turbos dewastegated, but then I'd never recommend it to someone who uses their car daily and drives it hard... You're likely to melt something unless you're monitoring the engine 24/7 - you're likely to get things very hot...
Everyone will just say "I'll just use the fuel to control the boost" - which yes you can, but that's pretty pointless, you're making the turbo probably produce 28psi or so, when all that's needed for a clean burn is probably 22-24psi - reducing the pumping losses of the engine, exhaust backpressure, charge temperatures, cooling system load blah de blah... It'll go well, but you could spend 2 hours more sorting out a wastegate and do it properly from day one - yes, tractors, combines, trucks etc don't have wastegates, but they also have turbochargers the size of small houses with massive A/Rs which keep backpressure down... They don't just stick a turbo on then tune it, they tune the turbo with regards to it's housings, wheel sizes, trims etc all in with the injector pump calibration all to work reliably from the factory... Welding the wastegate shut on a random turbo with some injector pump with a massive pump element wanged on injecting fuel all over the place is a recipe for damaging things...
We all do it - I'm mad for a good 11mm injector pump that bogs out, coals like feck off boost, but some people have different uses for their cars and in total honesty, sometimes don't have the most amount of mechanical sympathy when it comes to cars... When you see random people coming on the forum with stock bosch pumps saying "Yeah, I welded the wastegate shut and she goes now because someone on 306oc said it was OK to" then wonders why the head is warped to high heaven after their stint to 130mph up a hill in the middle of summer with the bonnet lining off and a stock exhaust with a 1.4 backbox on - that's when people are just going to shag their engines lol...
Some use it to get to work every day, others use it as a their hobby, a toy almost to tune and laugh when it breaks...
Love this^^
Explains a lot too its amazing whatt extents people will go to and how easily they copy people yes im a sucker for the TD04 route but to be fair stands me at 100quid for the mod and cant complain at all, its a daily driver but also have me spare 2 wheels if it breaks down lol
I had even bought a 11mm pump ready to make a big pump but to be honest dont see the point when my bosch is turned down quite a lot and making impressive power on a 9mm with hardly anysmoke even off boost
(16-08-2012, 11:42 AM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: thanks for the lengthy reply Ruan . . . . . .don't get me wrong it's quite amusing to see pics of holes in the bottom end bend rods etc . . . . . but at 34 with kids about 3 jobs and a nagging fcuking wife i don't have time to be changing blocks all the time . .
these engines are cheap enough to pick up ive found and currently buidling a spare in case of the mentioned happening lol
RE: td04 remount - Jarrus - 16-08-2012
My 2.1 has an 11mm pump and a TD04, and I've still got the wastegate on and fully functioning, if you want to run dewastegated then all you have to do is take the pipe off the actuator, however you'll probably blow it open because most second hand TD04's the actuator springs are on there way out (at least mine is) so I run a boost controller and run 20-21psi and thats fine by me....
I will be getting some guages in there soon to monitor things...
Also something I feel that is over looked on these (1.9 or 2.1) is good oil....
I use Fuchs Titan Pro S 10w-50 as I don't run an oil cooler at present and will probably go back to a 5w-40 when I do
If you're not running an oil cooler then I would recommend going for a thicker oil like an ester synthetic 10w-50 so it remains stable when it gets hot.... if you run an oil cooler then a 5w-40 or 10W-40 will probably be fine
RE: td04 remount - anto - 18-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 09:24 AM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: could start another thread but i'll try a highjack first . .lol . . . .does anyone keep the wastegate working on these and MBC them? everyone seems to be planning on welding them up . . .rather keep mine, does it mean welding the WG bracket on to the new manifold? . . . . .
Matt if you use a k03 or gt15 exhaust manifold it is easier to keep the wastegate as it angles the turbo down and away from the bulkhead and steering column.
Requires a few homemade brackets to move the wastegate but its not a lot of work.
RE: td04 remount - Mattcheese31 - 18-08-2012
(18-08-2012, 08:22 AM)anto Wrote:(16-08-2012, 09:24 AM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: could start another thread but i'll try a highjack first . .lol . . . .does anyone keep the wastegate working on these and MBC them? everyone seems to be planning on welding them up . . .rather keep mine, does it mean welding the WG bracket on to the new manifold? . . . . .
Matt if you use a k03 or gt15 exhaust manifold it is easier to keep the wastegate as it angles the turbo down and away from the bulkhead and steering column.
Requires a few homemade brackets to move the wastegate but its not a lot of work.
thanks, but i'm planning on buying one of those adaptor plates that CJderv is having made up, don't think they're making them for the "other" manifold . .
RE: td04 remount - Ruan - 18-08-2012
(16-08-2012, 04:35 PM)Jarrus Wrote: My 2.1 has an 11mm pump and a TD04, and I've still got the wastegate on and fully functioning, if you want to run dewastegated then all you have to do is take the pipe off the actuator
There's a very good reason you don't want to run dewastegated on a 2.1....
RE: td04 remount - Jarrus - 18-08-2012
Whats that then?
I'm running 20 psi so far and there has been 0 issues with that, I ran 20 psi on a big turbo with a 9mm on my 1.9 and pop went a rod out the block...
So I suppose you're going to tell me that the same will happen on this 2.1? think about it..... it's designed to run 110 from the factory which is more than the 1.9, and haul more weight around so how do people think that they are weaker?
RE: td04 remount - CJ_Derv - 18-08-2012
In my experience they only go pop from things getting hot an oil starvation 20psi wouldnt be the casue of that i popped a rod on stock engine running 12psi lol
IIRC the 1.9 Dtrubo was designed to run more than 92bhp but the had to drop it down because it would have been better than the petrol at the time maybe wrong but sure ive heard that lol
RE: td04 remount - darrenjlobb - 18-08-2012
Hydro....
RE: td04 remount - Jarrus - 18-08-2012
lifters? i aint planning on revving past 5k so no bother to me
might be the case......
i was running a 5w40 oil in the 1.9 and after some research then i went for a 10w50 this time round...... ive been told it stands up to heat a lot better
RE: td04 remount - darrenjlobb - 18-08-2012
Be fine way past what most people say tbh anyways.
RE: td04 remount - Jarrus - 18-08-2012
fair enough then.....still not planning on going past 5k piston speed must be mental with the long crank...
RE: td04 remount - Ruan - 19-08-2012
Lifters aren't just affected by RPMs... Inlet and Exhaust manifold pressure will play a big part in doing them in...
Also with regards to engines popping, yeah, we've all seen stock 90hp XUDs pop rods just going up the road, more power will obviously affect this... I'm not saying the 2.1 is weaker, it shouldn't be, but I know people who've popped HDi rods when everyone said they'll stand up to it... I'd put money on XUD11 rods being made out the same stuff and I bet you they have the same issues as the 1.9s with random rod blowing, it's just masked more since they're beefier engines as standard, the hike of 20hp isn't enough as standard to make them blow for the beefier bits in, but the theoretical more power that should be able to be extracted from them, I wouldn't be surprised if eventually you saw the same issues... The problem is one engine at 230hp not blowing isn't enough to say conclusively that the 2.1s DON'T suffer from rod failure... My XUD9 has probably done the most amount of miles at over 280lb.ft torque, yet my engines fine, but I know people with OEM pumps at 90hp who have blown them cruising on the motorway...
Don't get so defensive - christ almighty...
RE: td04 remount - Dave - 19-08-2012
I still stand by boost/fuelling being a major major contributing factor for any block to blow, more so on the fuelling/timing side.
RE: td04 remount - Jarrus - 20-08-2012
fair enough...
its just your comment was rather cynical,