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+--- Forum: DW10 HDi section (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Gearbox Mounted Turbo (/showthread.php?tid=36333)
Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 25-09-2017
Unsure if it has been done before on a HDI I know its a common thing when people have a 1.9 D Turbo, Was just wondering what i would need to do to build and mount the turbo?
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - toseland - 25-09-2017
yup, lots been done..
pipes, bends, welder and a bracket to support the turbo..
also some heat wrap for the hot side pipe from the manifold and some way to get the downpipe sorted..
battery will obviously need to be moved (boot, get a BMW battery cable from the 5 series and it's easy,
no different to the XUD in this respect.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 25-09-2017
(25-09-2017, 11:49 AM)toseland Wrote: yup, lots been done..
pipes, bends, welder and a bracket to support the turbo..
also some heat wrap for the hot side pipe from the manifold and some way to get the downpipe sorted..
battery will obviously need to be moved (boot, get a BMW battery cable from the 5 series and it's easy,
no different to the XUD in this respect.
In this case what turbo would be a good upgrade for a HDI?
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 25-09-2017
One large enough to be worth relocating over the gearbox? GTB2260vklr. Then you're going to need money for injector and pump upgrades (for which there are no established or confirmed routes), head work, exhaust manifold, etc.
Honestly, just use something like an rhf5 or gt20 and stick it in the stock location. Much cheaper and simpler to implement and there's a lot of people around who have already done it who can give advice. Unless you just want it so you can show off a gearbox mounted turbo; it'll look a bit silly having something that small...
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 26-09-2017
(25-09-2017, 08:53 PM)Poodle Wrote: One large enough to be worth relocating over the gearbox? GTB2260vklr. Then you're going to need money for injector and pump upgrades (for which there are no established or confirmed routes), head work, exhaust manifold, etc.
Honestly, just use something like an rhf5 or gt20 and stick it in the stock location. Much cheaper and simpler to implement and there's a lot of people around who have already done it who can give advice. Unless you just want it so you can show off a gearbox mounted turbo; it'll look a bit silly having something that small...
In two minds kinda wish i had an older 1.9 Dturbo over a HDI as can do alot more work on them i find anyway. But know how much will a gt20 set me back or should i just replace the standard k03?
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 27-09-2017
There's much more you can to an HDi, it's just not many have had the balls to do it. At least not on this forum. You can find all sorts of turbos on ebay, can cost anything from £5 to £500, depends what you want.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 27-09-2017
(27-09-2017, 05:37 AM)Poodle Wrote: There's much more you can to an HDi, it's just not many have had the balls to do it. At least not on this forum. You can find all sorts of turbos on ebay, can cost anything from £5 to £500, depends what you want.
Tbh ive heard alot of bad things after pushing a HDI past the 200bhp limit they just seem to fall apart from what i was told so i was something i can run a stage 2 with and have mapped in, ive come from Japscrap so i know nothing about turbos and such. Want something that spools faster and holds boost longer lol.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - toseland - 27-09-2017
nah.. you can push anything to stupid power, but people try to make silly numbers on stock internals and dont consider things that are simple like rods or bearings..
biggest restriction so far on the HDi 8v is the injectors..
16 valve is much more easy to fit with different injectors because its a more common set of angles for injection plane and cone angle.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 27-09-2017
Same goes for the xuds, or most engines pushing 2.5 times stock power for that matter lol. All depends how much you're willing to invest, obviously an uncharted path will be more costly and time-consuming, which is where the 8v HDis are at.
I've picked up good gt20s for sub £40 in the past, it's a major punt on quality at that price though. Can pick up refurbs for 250-300. The torque will be too much for other components to handle if you have it spooling up any earlier than they do as standard, is boost at 1900rpm not soon enough..? For something with a similar boost threshold and higher flow you'll need a vnt, you can get older gt2256v refurbs for a little over £200.
As Toseland has pointed out, 16v is the way to go; heads flow a hell of a lot better and then there are injector choices galore.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 28-09-2017
(27-09-2017, 10:32 PM)Poodle Wrote: Same goes for the xuds, or most engines pushing 2.5 times stock power for that matter lol. All depends how much you're willing to invest, obviously an uncharted path will be more costly and time-consuming, which is where the 8v HDis are at.
I've picked up good gt20s for sub £40 in the past, it's a major punt on quality at that price though. Can pick up refurbs for 250-300. The torque will be too much for other components to handle if you have it spooling up any earlier than they do as standard, is boost at 1900rpm not soon enough..? For something with a similar boost threshold and higher flow you'll need a vnt, you can get older gt2256v refurbs for a little over £200.
As Toseland has pointed out, 16v is the way to go; heads flow a hell of a lot better and then there are injector choices galore.
Is this why people put the 2.1 head on the 1.9 d turbo block as it is easier to make more power from?
(27-09-2017, 10:32 PM)Poodle Wrote: Same goes for the xuds, or most engines pushing 2.5 times stock power for that matter lol. All depends how much you're willing to invest, obviously an uncharted path will be more costly and time-consuming, which is where the 8v HDis are at.
I've picked up good gt20s for sub £40 in the past, it's a major punt on quality at that price though. Can pick up refurbs for 250-300. The torque will be too much for other components to handle if you have it spooling up any earlier than they do as standard, is boost at 1900rpm not soon enough..? For something with a similar boost threshold and higher flow you'll need a vnt, you can get older gt2256v refurbs for a little over £200.
As Toseland has pointed out, 16v is the way to go; heads flow a hell of a lot better and then there are injector choices galore.
I will take a look at a gt20 and any specific GT20 i.e. GT2052?
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 29-09-2017
A gt2052 can flow as much as the exhaust side can cope with.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 30-09-2017
(29-09-2017, 10:23 PM)Poodle Wrote: A gt2052 can flow as much as the exhaust side can cope with.
I will look at buying one any specific car they come on that will fit down the back of the 306
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Frosty - 30-09-2017
(30-09-2017, 09:05 AM)TommiePuglet Wrote:(29-09-2017, 10:23 PM)Poodle Wrote: A gt2052 can flow as much as the exhaust side can cope with.
I will look at buying one any specific car they come on that will fit down the back of the 306
Most seem to go for the one off the TD5 landrovers, thats whats on mine.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 30-09-2017
(30-09-2017, 07:36 PM)Frosty Wrote:(30-09-2017, 09:05 AM)TommiePuglet Wrote:(29-09-2017, 10:23 PM)Poodle Wrote: A gt2052 can flow as much as the exhaust side can cope with.
I will look at buying one any specific car they come on that will fit down the back of the 306
Most seem to go for the one off the TD5 landrovers, thats whats on mine.
Cheers I will have a look and see if I can find one is there anything to look for specifically and are they hard to map in as I’m guessing it’s not a plug and play.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 02-10-2017
Don't need mapping in to drive, but will obviously be needed to get the best power from it. I'm not sure on the variants of the gt2052, but make sure it's boost actuated waste gate, rather than vacuum wg or vnt.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 03-10-2017
(02-10-2017, 12:54 PM)Poodle Wrote: Don't need mapping in to drive, but will obviously be needed to get the best power from it. I'm not sure on the variants of the gt2052, but make sure it's boost actuated waste gate, rather than vacuum wg or vnt.
With a FMIC a R70 Pump A GT2052 and a Stage 3 Paddle Clutch Maybe A 207 1.6 HDI 110 FPR what would i be looking out power wise.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 04-10-2017
Probably about 180bhp and a shade under 300lbft.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 04-10-2017
(04-10-2017, 12:25 PM)Poodle Wrote: Probably about 180bhp and a shade under 300lbft.
Would it be worth while me staying to the standard turbo then if they are making similar power?
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 04-10-2017
The gt20 will make that power under considerably less stress and at far higher efficiency than the standard turbo. The restriction at that point is exhaust mani and injectors, so it doesn't really matter how big the turbo is. Sure you could put a gt22 or 25 on and get a 1800bar frps and new manifolds and you might just about push it up to 210, but is it worth it for 30bhp and a fraction of the reliability.
Tbqh I think you won't necessarily need anything more. You'll be making torque figures similar to an e90 m3 in a car that is half a ton lighter, and it's the torque you'll feel up to legal road speeds. Have a look for a 30-70 videos on stage 2 306 hi, you'll get an idea.
For what it's worth I'd suggest looking at slightly bigger/different turbos too. The gt2052 is from landys designed to have boost at low revs, ie probably not so great higher up the revs.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Ruan - 04-10-2017
(04-10-2017, 12:51 PM)TommiePuglet Wrote:(04-10-2017, 12:25 PM)Poodle Wrote: Probably about 180bhp and a shade under 300lbft.
Would it be worth while me staying to the standard turbo then if they are making similar power?
Absolutely no way a standard turbo is making anywhere near 180hp.
Not to mention the power curve!
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 05-10-2017
(04-10-2017, 09:59 PM)Poodle Wrote: The gt20 will make that power under considerably less stress and at far higher efficiency than the standard turbo. The restriction at that point is exhaust mani and injectors, so it doesn't really matter how big the turbo is. Sure you could put a gt22 or 25 on and get a 1800bar frps and new manifolds and you might just about push it up to 210, but is it worth it for 30bhp and a fraction of the reliability.
Tbqh I think you won't necessarily need anything more. You'll be making torque figures similar to an e90 m3 in a car that is half a ton lighter, and it's the torque you'll feel up to legal road speeds. Have a look for a 30-70 videos on stage 2 306 hi, you'll get an idea.
For what it's worth I'd suggest looking at slightly bigger/different turbos too. The gt2052 is from landys designed to have boost at low revs, ie probably not so great higher up the revs.
i think ive found a turbo locally that has come from a volvo... let the fun begin!
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - Poodle - 05-10-2017
Ideal, I look forward to some interesting updates.
RE: Gearbox Mounted Turbo - TommiePuglet - 06-10-2017
(05-10-2017, 06:03 PM)Poodle Wrote: Ideal, I look forward to some interesting updates.
All updates will probably be put on the puglet build thread im doing, but first things first is to fix the knackered break servo but the turbo has been located and fun will soon commence xD