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+--- Thread: Should we be concerned about our diesels (/showthread.php?tid=35829)
Should we be concerned about our diesels - bashbarnard - 14-04-2017
So recently there is more and more pressure being out on diesel cars and this forum has a fair few of them. even the cheap tax hdis have gone up to £157 a year now (i just taxed one). All of my cars are of the diesel variety and some of my projects are as well. What do people think is the cost of diesel going to go up as well to the point i may as well buy a gti6 engined one...............
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - dr_jekyll - 14-04-2017
I was led to believe the new tax laws are only effecting the newer dervs. Instead i think there gonna hit us with fuel taxation and this new congestion charge in certian citys of upto £20 per day. Shits up my creak as now looking at moving to norwich which was one of the named citys
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RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Magenta Sunset - 14-04-2017
yep, places like London etc, with their ULEZ will be the major issue.
that and the boroughs planning to up residential parking charges just for owning one.
civil disobedience anyone?
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Stef205 - 14-04-2017
£157 a year? is that all?
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Magenta Sunset - 14-04-2017
£245 for a HDi 2.0
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-and-light-goods-vehicles-registered-before-1-march-2001
Should we be concerned about our diesels - bashbarnard - 14-04-2017
(14-04-2017, 07:36 PM)Magenta Sunset Wrote: £245 for a HDi 2.0
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-and-light-goods-vehicles-registered-before-1-march-2001
Yeah pre 2001 both mine are post so cheaper
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Stef205 - 14-04-2017
(14-04-2017, 07:36 PM)Magenta Sunset Wrote: £245 for a HDi 2.0
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-and-light-goods-vehicles-registered-before-1-march-2001
i can understand that i pay that on the evo and near that on the 205
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Niall - 14-04-2017
Unfortunately we were all ed to believe in the early 00's that diesel was the way forwards. No, it was the easiest way to make the typical consumer think they were driving an eco friendly car. Fast forward to today and small turbo petrol engines are much better but people are still stuck with the old petrol is dirty ways. The government is going to try and push out dervs and in a time of low emissions and saving the planet, it's not surprising
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - maxaret - 15-04-2017
Yeah we ummd and ahhhd for a few months as to whether we would buy another diesel to replace our recently departed 306.In the end we got a low mileage 09 fabia 1.9 tdi PD but I am viewing it as prob my last diesel (been driving diesels since the 80's).
We do not usually drive into cities anyway but we do fairly regular 500+ mile dashes - the fabia is great for that as it lopes along at 2250 rpm @ 70ish and it has cruise control as well (a must for long distance driving LOL).
We realised it is a risky strategy buying another diesel - but the thought of driving a 3 cyl buzzbox over long distances to try to match the fabias overall avg of 55-57 mpg just did not appeal LOL
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Mighty306 - 15-04-2017
When it comes to London they seem to have a 'downer' on anything that doesn't meet Euro 4 standards, including petrol engine vehicles. https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/mayor-introduces-10-toxicity-charge . Let's hope that doesn't become commonplace in other cities.
To be honest, the whole thing around emissions standards & emissions tests seems to be a bit of a mess. Older cars probably are more polluting on the whole, but not necessarily so, as the MoT emissions test for one of my cars shows.
The previous year (when it had a brand new cat, new lambda, reconditioned injectors & some other bits) it recorded zero for CO on both the fast idle & natural idle tests. The garage thought their machine was broken & had to test it!
The thing that mystifies me is why many much newer vehicles (e.g. Ford ecoboosts) are tested to the same limits CO/HC when they were designed (supposedly.... if you trust manufacturers!) to meet much stricter standards. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles
This is all about local air quality & doesn't take in to account the bigger picture. I was always led to believe that the embodied energy in the production of a car was so huge it was better to keep an old car going when you can. The thing is, a lot of that pollution occurs somewhere else and so is easily ignored.
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - welshpug - 15-04-2017
It certainly would be interesting to look at the full picture not just the isolated locality, compare the imact a well maintained 10-25-20 year old diesel has had vs buying new cars every 8 years or so.
I dont think for the immediate future we have anything at all to worry about, if commercial vehicles ran on a different fuel it would be a different story altogether.
I often visit Belgium and France a few times a year and diesel is the fuel of choice for everything medium sized up, and Diesel is a good bit cheaper than Petrol.
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Mighty306 - 15-04-2017
Yea, seems a charge based on data from a thorough emissions test at MoT would be a much fairer approach. The emphasis is then on how well maintained the individual vehicle is, regardless of age.
I've seen some pretty new diesels (post Euro 4 and usually VAG's) throwing out a lot of particulates.
Off to France shortly
....in a diesel Pug (not a 306 sadly as the GF veto'd that idea!)
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Magenta Sunset - 15-04-2017
where London leads, Oxford follows. (London prices, Birmingham wages
)Back when Tony & Gordon were running the show it was all about CO2, now down the line it's all about NOx and particulates.
Sue the Govt for bad something or other??
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - tigerstyle - 15-04-2017
(15-04-2017, 01:59 PM)Magenta Sunset Wrote: Back when Tony & Gordon were running the show it was all about CO2, now down the line it's all about NOx and particulates.
Scientific research doesn't stop, so as new data is uncovered rules should change. Hard to please all of the people all of the time!
I think car tax wise, I'm happy to scrap taxes and increase fuel duty, the more you use the more you pay, but can see straight away that this doesn't get around NOx style pollution....
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - maxaret - 15-04-2017
There was a huge headline about our main street being in the worst 10 in scotland for pollution,but when you look at the actual figures - they are not that bad and the mean figure never exceeds the limits.
A main trunk road passes through the town centre which has tall buildings - you do not need to be a rocket scientist to work out that in certain weather conditions especially with light winds then the pollution levels will rise.
They closed our railway line in 1965 and the track bed could have been used as the basis for a relief road but no - they built on quite a lot of it and it is now impossible to use that route,so we now will pay for short term thinking as usual.
I agree with magenta about Oxford as well - they have been anti car for years (I used to be based near there when in the RAF).
Up in Scotland we of course have the Scottish Nazi Party in power but they do not have a majority so rely on the Greens (
) for support to get their mad policies through - so any tax payers up here will suffer in the future as the SNP and the greens do not care how much tax we pay.They are also pushing for bigger and bigger areas of 20mph speed limits (I do not mind 20 limits over short distances but in larger towns they are stupid)
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Magenta Sunset - 15-04-2017
"They are also pushing for bigger and bigger areas of 20mph speed limits (I do not mind 20 limits over short distances but in larger towns they are stupid) "
side roads & near schools, yes, fine. Main routes in, out, or through should be higher where conditions/layout permits.
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Eeyore - 15-04-2017
I feel its all scapegoating. Its just bs and a money making scheme. Why not have a plain ban date or fuel limits. I'm sure it can be dine without taxing.
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Magenta Sunset - 15-04-2017
you hit the nail on the head!
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Dum-Dum - 16-04-2017
(15-04-2017, 05:59 PM)Eeyore Wrote: I feel its all scapegoating. Its just bs and a money making scheme. Why not have a plain ban date or fuel limits. I'm sure it can be dine without taxing.
This!
Day by day we get closer to an Orwellian dystopia where the government controls the public by making them believe they are constantly at war. In our case the war on terror, war on speeding, war on diesel vehicles etc. Govt use these things to distract from the real issues and use it as an excuse as to why we can't have things.
Should we be concerned about our diesels - bashbarnard - 16-04-2017
What are the real issues then
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RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - maxaret - 16-04-2017
Too many people in certain areas of the country !
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - tigerstyle - 16-04-2017
(16-04-2017, 08:16 AM)Dum-Dum Wrote:(15-04-2017, 05:59 PM)Eeyore Wrote: I feel its all scapegoating. Its just bs and a money making scheme. Why not have a plain ban date or fuel limits. I'm sure it can be dine without taxing.
This!
Day by day we get closer to an Orwellian dystopia where the government controls the public by making them believe they are constantly at war. In our case the war on terror, war on speeding, war on diesel vehicles etc. Govt use these things to distract from the real issues and use it as an excuse as to why we can't have things.
Are ISIS not a problem then?
Does speeding not kill?
Do diesel vehicles not pollute more than petrol?
I am not saying these are the only three issues we currently face as a society, but they are prevalent issues.
As this thread is about diesel, government stance and public opinion has to adapt to new scientific understanding, we know more now about diesels than we did 10 years ago, our stance has to change.
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Mattcheese31 - 16-04-2017
but but, like i keep saying i run veg
. . . . . this actually does need addressing, pretty sure i should be excluded from all this nonsense
Should we be concerned about our diesels - bashbarnard - 16-04-2017
(16-04-2017, 01:30 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: but but, like i keep saying i run veg
Look on your logbook will say heavy oil, this includes veg oil. Sunflower oil, bio diesel, diesel and any other "stuff" you can legally run. For this reason
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Mattcheese31 - 16-04-2017
(16-04-2017, 02:15 PM)bashbarnard Wrote:(16-04-2017, 01:30 PM)Mattcheese31 Wrote: but but, like i keep saying i run veg
Look on your logbook will say heavy oil, this includes veg oil. Sunflower oil, bio diesel, diesel and any other "stuff" you can legally run. For this reason
i know that mate, my point is that if you run exclusively veg, pretty sure it doesn't do the damage diesel does
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Eeyore - 16-04-2017
I'm not sure I've even seen any figures or an explanation... I know the public are thick but I'm sure most people have just been told "diesels are bad".
Also add to that there is a stigma with diesels of cheap running costs and in today's society I'm sure people are extremely willing to push anyone down who has a diesel. Got to gave petrol to be cool yo. One of us.. One of us...
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Magenta Sunset - 16-04-2017
I don't "have" to be cool. just have to "be".
Does anyone have/has anyone seen, data on alternate fuels emissions?
id be interested so see what the differences are.
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - Eeyore - 16-04-2017
This is what I'm saying. Everyone is wound up on having the latest and greatest whether it be a new phone or a corsa on finance. If diesels are old hat and not cool then they will unfortunately die out... Only because of trends and fashion... Not because of how good they actually are.
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - darrenjlobb - 17-04-2017
Someone just give me a couple grand so I can mate a 24v cummins to a TH400 and load it up on the converter in central london. Number of f***ks given here, zero!
RE: Should we be concerned about our diesels - insomaniac45 - 17-04-2017
btw, its not the CO or hydrocarbons thats the issue with diesels.
its the nitrogen oxides and sulphur particulates that are the main causes.
if you actually look at what can be found in a typical diesel exhaust fume, you may be quite shocked.
But, the same could probably be said for petrol.
dont worry, next year they will most likly be coming out with a new fad...... like they always do.......