+- 306oc - Peugeot 306 Owners Club & Forum (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum)
+-- Forum: Engines (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=16)
+--- Forum: XUD Section (https://www.306oc.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Sprung vs un sprung. (/showthread.php?tid=31486)
Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 04-08-2015
So thanks to various people on this forum and a bit of info ive got my choice of clutch narrowed down off cg. I just wanted to know peoples experiences of sprung vs unsprung. Ive been offered both at the same price. Up to me which one i choose.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - Seb_Ryan - 04-08-2015
Ive had both in the alfa.. It came with a sprung one and ive put an unsprung in, ive found the unsprung vibrates less.. Might Be something to do with the springs bottoming out?
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - welshpug - 04-08-2015
road car = sprung.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 04-08-2015
Does one potentially hold more power then. Or is it just for smoothness of operation. Never having had a paddle clutch im unsure
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - ADV_93 - 04-08-2015
Youll want sprung on a daily/road car mate. Unsprung are like an on off switch
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 04-08-2015
Fair enough. So far it looks like sprung will be the way forward.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - ADV_93 - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 06:13 PM)bashbarnard Wrote: Does one potentially hold more power then. Or is it just for smoothness of operation. Never having had a paddle clutch im unsure
Isn't it 4 paddle for more power, 6 paddle for more driveability? Or t'other way round?
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 04-08-2015
Im getting a four paddle on recommendations. Just have the choice of both sprung and unsprung
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - Ruan - 04-08-2015
IME after driving both, I'd go unsprung, I've found the sprung ones to end up juddering really badly - , the unsprung ones seem to be more bitey, but at least you don't have the horrific judder.
Theoretically the sprung should absorb it, but I've only ever experienced them be worse than unsprung ones...
Re: RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - Seb_Ryan - 04-08-2015
(04-08-2015, 09:21 PM)Ruan Wrote: IME after driving both, I'd go unsprung, I've found the sprung ones to end up juddering really badly - , the unsprung ones seem to be more bitey, but at least you don't have the horrific judder.
Theoretically the sprung should absorb it, but I've only ever experienced them be worse than unsprung ones...
Thank fook im not the only one that thinks this.. Its gotta be the spring giving abit then "bottoming out" which judders so bad?
Btw my alfa has a dmf if that makes a difference.. Maybe for me it was both trying to absorb and working against each other..?
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - Ruan - 04-08-2015
I've driven in a HDi powered car with XUD clutch setup with the unsprung 3000 miles ish across Europe and it didn't really piss me off at all, it's sharper sure, but not to any massive detriment... You've just got to be aware you can't sit on a hill riding the clutch, it WILL kill it in no time.
I think it's just the springs needing to be so strong, they can't absorb the fluctuations properly anymore and just cause that jumping sensation... I don't really know though tbh, but they're pretty horrific.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - Dave - 05-08-2015
I have unsprung 4 paddle in mine.
Doesnt judder and is smooth, must be lucky. I know this doesnt help though,.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 05-08-2015
So two votes for each. To be fair im not fussed about having a more bity clutch if it makes my life a bit quieter. I mean why not have the challenge. How long does a paddle clutch last then? Reasonable amount of time?
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - Anton - 05-08-2015
Darren and ZX Volcane both have the unsprung 4 paddle too...
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - 1616six - 05-08-2015
I've had unsprung & after the first couple of journeys you're used to it. Unsprung for me.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - Frosty - 05-08-2015
I've had/used both. Had a 4 paddle unsprung in my dt, wasn't that bad to drive with though not the nicest sound they give when the clutch isn't engaged. Not really sure why but that only lasted about 3000 miles. I also found there a bit harder on the gearbox as when i fitted the gearbox to my estate it was a little rattly, not sure if anyone else had come across that sort of issue.
I currently go a 5 paddle sprung in the estate that i got 2nd hand but minimal miles on it, i've done around 7000 miles on it now with mixed driving and still seems ok.
All my experiences are with CG 1s
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - darrenjlobb - 05-08-2015
My experience,
Firstly, using all of us as comparisons is flawed, as CG have changed the design of these units many times in the last few years, so its not really a fair comparison like for like.
Sprung / unsprung, in theory sprung, but in reality, I would choose the un sprung unit every time. These are CHEAP clutchs, there are made of CHEAP material and to a fairly low quality, therefore the simpler the design, the less likely you are to have issues, and on the unsprung unit, there is very little to go wrong.
The problem I seem to have encountered on recent units, is they have narrowed up on the spline in the center, which has left IMO an un satisfactory amount of engagement, This, over time, is causing the "rattle" people are experiencing on idle in neutral, as the friction disk vibrates / moves around on the input shaft, this if left to wear enough, will eventually strip the splines out the disk and loose drive, although I have given them fair abuse / I think they will fail for other reasons before this, but either way, needs sorting really, and I am actually in contact with CG regarding it at the moment.
Overall for what they cost, they do a good job, and I would just buy the un-sprung 4 paddle unit, either there kit, or just the disk and use with a brand new valeo pressure plate.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - welshpug - 05-08-2015
maybe you guys need to try a proper helix or AP competition clutch, you'd hate one of them.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - allanallen - 05-08-2015
What brands are people fitting? Are the cg ones not standard centres with different springs? That could well be part of the problem! I wouldn't personally buy a CG clutch, then I again I wouldn't fit a paddle clutch in a road car either...
More paddles will make them smoother, so a 6 paddle would be better on a road car IMO.
I've run a few different clutches (all be it in petrol rally cars), the nicest to use is my current 6 paddle sprung helix, it doesn't judder but bites really well, you can be very rough with it. I had a sprung 4 paddle AP beforehand, this was still ok, didn't really judder but was harsher to use, bit really hard though, you could 'clutch it up' in second when necessary and it loved it! Gearbox and shafts probably didn't appreciate it mind!
The Ap lasted about 1500 competition miles before it needed re-lining. The 6 paddle is fairing far better when I've recently checked it.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - welshpug - 05-08-2015
I've used an AP briefly, in a saxo with a sadev box, its a lady garden when the engine is cold! Belgian spec exhaust, so you feel like a right tit in service park moving it about whilst the owner is out on recce, then you realise every second car is doing her same thing
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - allanallen - 05-08-2015
Yep, used to love going the shops in my 205, lots of revs to save it stalling and a plate diff banging it's head off!
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 05-08-2015
Well the consensus seems to be. A sprung should be better buts its not if you buy cg. Which i am. Ill go unsprung. I really hope i get more miles than 3000 out of it. Thats very poor mileage for a clutch and i hope cg replaces the unit FOC. I may have a word with them as well about the centre splines as darren is obviously already talking to them. If two people bug them they may be more inclined to change it a bit.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - allanallen - 05-08-2015
They're (supposedly) a competition clutch, they're made of a completely different material, have a much smaller surface area and handle a lot more power, why wouldn't they wear out? And why the hell should they replace them for free??
Mine wears out, I take it out, send it to Questmead, they re-line it for bugger all and send it back! No tears or drama! I'm afraid You can't expect to use completion stuff rated for double the power/torque and expect it to last forever! and have a warranty! :lol
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 05-08-2015
Im not expecting 100,000 miles by far. But say its only 25% of the contact material i would expect at least 10,000. Id be more than happy with that. Pull the box out and reline. But 3000 is a little low though.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - welshpug - 05-08-2015
probably better off looking into an ML box and a standard 2.1 clutch.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 05-08-2015
The 2.1 clutch is no bigger. Flywheels the same size.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - allanallen - 05-08-2015
It's less than 50% of the contact material, it's different material and the cover plate will have a higher clamping force, that's how they work unfortunately! It's like competition brake pads, in order to stop you quicker they either destroy your discs or wear out really quickly or both!
I had some Mintex F4r pads in my car, they wore themselves and the brand new discs out in less than 500miles! Over £250 worth.... Gone!!!!! In 500 miles!!!
sorry, I digress 
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 05-08-2015
Its a daily driver. I cant afford to bang a clutch in it every other month. For that cost i could buy a brand new car. (which i would never do) im sure people have had more mileage out of there's. Maybe an oem clutch with better clamping force may be the way forward. Who knows. Ive got a 1500 mile trip coming up soon according to you thats half the clutch gone!! Ive got to get one and cg seem like the only viable option atm.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - welshpug - 05-08-2015
1500 mile road trip is somewhat different to 1500 miles driving to work or twatting about in lanes.
RE: Sprung vs un sprung. - bashbarnard - 05-08-2015
I know that. Also cant believe 500 miles on pads. Must drive on a track constantly. Just trying to get across. This is my daily driver. I use it for everything. It was full to the brim with turf last week!!