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+--- Thread: Harness bar fitting (/showthread.php?tid=30439)
RE: Harness bar fitting - Jonny81191 - 15-05-2015
(14-05-2015, 08:48 PM)adam b Wrote: Don't see why you couldn't use a standard belt with my Cobra monacos if you unbolted the one end to feed it through the hole close to the door.
This. If the belt is routed properly so it comes up tight against you, there's no reason I can think of not to use it in buckets.
RE: Harness bar fitting - kentiiboii - 15-05-2015
Soo... has anyone come to the conclusion of where best place to mount a harness bar, other than a cage?
:-)
RE: Harness bar fitting - welshpug - 15-05-2015
in the bin!!
RE: Harness bar fitting - Piggy - 15-05-2015
(15-05-2015, 11:38 AM)kentiiboii Wrote: Soo... has anyone come to the conclusion of where best place to mount a harness bar, other than a cage?
:-)
I'll put up some useful pics next week fella. I finished mine today, started painting it. With it bolted in, I rekon you could lift the whole car with it
Standard seatbelts wouldnt work with my buckets, the shoulder support area would get in the way. remember I real weedy, so I dont "fill" the bucket much
RE: Harness bar fitting - kentiiboii - 15-05-2015
(15-05-2015, 04:35 PM)Piggy Wrote:Nice one would appreciate that.(15-05-2015, 11:38 AM)kentiiboii Wrote: Soo... has anyone come to the conclusion of where best place to mount a harness bar, other than a cage?
:-)
I'll put up some useful pics next week fella. I finished mine today, started painting it. With it bolted in, I rekon you could lift the whole car with it [emoji38]
Standard seatbelts wouldnt work with my buckets, the shoulder support area would get in the way. remember I real weedy, so I dont "fill" the bucket much [emoji38]
I've started stripping the car out today, struggling with the front carpet under the dash.
It's stuck on the heater thing, ive taken screws and thing out and still no movement.
RE: Harness bar fitting - Niall - 15-05-2015
The thing that concerns me is if you had a crash at 70mph, you're body weight of 70-80kg for example would end up becoming well over a ton during impact. You sure that the fixing points of that bar can take that force?
RE: Harness bar fitting - Jonny81191 - 15-05-2015
Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?
RE: Harness bar fitting - Niall - 15-05-2015
(15-05-2015, 06:53 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote: Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?
Chemical metal should be used. Would be much safer. Everyone knows that chemical metal is stronger than a weld
RE: Harness bar fitting - kentiiboii - 15-05-2015
(15-05-2015, 06:56 PM)Niall Wrote:Chemical metal is the bomb! Welded half the car up with that!(15-05-2015, 06:53 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote: Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?
Chemical metal should be used. Would be much safer. Everyone knows that chemical metal is stronger than a weld
RE: Harness bar fitting - Jonny81191 - 15-05-2015
(15-05-2015, 06:56 PM)Niall Wrote:(15-05-2015, 06:53 PM)Jonny81191 Wrote: Oh yeah, it's welded in don't you know?
Chemical metal should be used. Would be much safer. Everyone knows that chemical metal is stronger than a weld
Oh yeah, and tbh some of the "professional welding" I've seen just backs that up
RE: Harness bar fitting - adam b - 15-05-2015
But it's considerably more dear than gaffer tape. And you can make harnesses with it too
RE: Harness bar fitting - Nathan1305 - 15-05-2015
So on a serious note with roll cages. My new car has a welded half cage, could I eventually weld in the front hoops and door bars like the pic? Personally I can't see why not because it would be welded in just like if I had the full cage to begin with
[attachment=23213]
RE: Harness bar fitting - puglove - 17-05-2015
I think people are seriously under estimating the strength of the correct type of tube. The stuff i used is the is the stuff we use for land rover roll cages and we pull that 2.5T land rovers upgenst trees with twin motor giggle pin winches with a 6T pulling power and stall the winches and single tubes dont bend
Mounted to a structural part of the car with additional bracing is more than capable of withstand impact loads of a crash .
I will say though the ones that people bolt through the wheel arch are only as strong as the sheet metal of the arch and prob would pull away from their mountings
RE: Harness bar fitting - Niall - 17-05-2015
Its not the bar people are debating. Its the mounting points. In order the the harnesses to be at the correct angle, the bar needs to be at rear arch level and we all know thats only 1mm(ish)steel.
TBH im not a structural engineer. You never know, it may be fine but it just doesn't look it!
Re: RE: Harness bar fitting - Seb_Ryan - 17-05-2015
(17-05-2015, 05:28 PM)Niall Wrote: Its not the bar people are debating. Its the mounting points. In order the the harnesses to be at the correct angle, the bar needs to be at rear arch level and we all know thats only 1mm(ish)steel.
TBH im not a structural engineer. You never know, it may be fine but it just doesn't look it!
Every rally car ive ever been in (built 2) they always have plates welded, like a wedge of cheese below the mounting points, then the cage welded to that
RE: Harness bar fitting - Niall - 17-05-2015
(17-05-2015, 05:43 PM)Seb_Ryan Wrote:(17-05-2015, 05:28 PM)Niall Wrote: Its not the bar people are debating. Its the mounting points. In order the the harnesses to be at the correct angle, the bar needs to be at rear arch level and we all know thats only 1mm(ish)steel.
TBH im not a structural engineer. You never know, it may be fine but it just doesn't look it!
Every rally car ive ever been in (built 2) they always have plates welded, like a wedge of cheese below the mounting points, then the cage welded to that
Not talking about cages though
Talking about a harness bar on its own
RE: Harness bar fitting - puglove - 17-05-2015
Alot of race / rally. (Like pro series wrc/touring car etc) use level mounted harness
RE: Harness bar fitting - adam b - 17-05-2015
Yes but they design the shell to cope with it
RE: Harness bar fitting - Piggy - 18-05-2015
(17-05-2015, 06:42 PM)adam b Wrote: Yes but they design the shell to cope with it
erm, not quite.
Most lower class rally cars simply have bolt in or weld in cages, totally standard unmolested shell/chassis.
And if you ever get a chance, have a gander at the last fiesta R2....the cages welds were horrific
RE: Harness bar fitting - welshpug - 18-05-2015
hahahaah.
you haven't seen how much people plough into the "lower class" cars.
those cages will have welded in harness bars BTW, not some shonky piece of scaffold tube on the rear quarters.
RE: Harness bar fitting - cully - 18-05-2015
no such thing as lower class rallying they all have to be built to the MSA blue book rules and then pass MSA build inspection before being issued with a log book which is needed before competing and then they have to pass Scrutineer for each event
when i was crewing for a rallys we regulaly had things picked up on scrutineering that had to be sorted before a pass was issued
RE: Harness bar fitting - adam b - 18-05-2015
Mine would be classed as that then...
![[Image: cage.jpg]](http://www.cvgwrapping.com/images/cage.jpg)
It's an entry level car, in fact doesn't meet the criteria yet by some margin!
RE: Harness bar fitting - Piggy - 18-05-2015
(18-05-2015, 05:52 PM)welshpug Wrote: hahahaah.
you haven't seen how much people plough into the "lower class" cars.
those cages will have welded in harness bars BTW, not some shonky piece of scaffold tube on the rear quarters.
I didn't say they wouldn't have.
Having built a couple and been on the crew I have a rough idea.
(18-05-2015, 06:21 PM)cully Wrote: no such thing as lower class rallying they all have to be built to the MSA blue book rules and then pass MSA build inspection before being issued with a log book which is needed before competing and then they have to pass Scrutineer for each event
when i was crewing for a rallys we regulaly had things picked up on scrutineering that had to be sorted before a pass was issued
see above.
Been there done that too....including arguing that the car IS blue, just that the sponsor has a white emblem so it looks like the car is white and blue. I had to argue that till I was ruddy blue.
But there IS lower classes fella.
Top JWRC and WRC will have full welded in cage, modified strut tops etc etc etc.
The lower classes will simply have a FIA/MSA approved bolt in cage as there is no need nor requirement for the above.
(18-05-2015, 07:58 PM)adam b Wrote: Mine would be classed as that then...
It's an entry level car, in fact doesn't meet the criteria yet by some margin!
Looks nice setup, seems very narrow mind.
And despite it being a weld in and top job, as you say, doesn't meet the criteria of a rally car by some way, despite some of them having off the shelf bolt in cages.
RE: Harness bar fitting - welshpug - 18-05-2015
the cage meets the criteria certainly, its just the car hasn't the suspension or guards to cope with rallying yet.
cage is not narrow, its as wide as it needs to be, it is one of the "lower classes" as you deem it, its fully welded in, gusseted to the A and B-pillars, double door bars, bottom of main hoop to rear legs linked, welded to both beam mounting points. and a full double cross main hoop and rear legs.
RE: Harness bar fitting - Piggy - 18-05-2015
I can see where it's welded and what it has.... I have eyes weirdly enough.
Still quite narrow as cages full go.
RE: Harness bar fitting - zx_volcane - 18-05-2015
you've built rally cars?
RE: Harness bar fitting - Piggy - 18-05-2015
(18-05-2015, 09:06 PM)zx_volcane Wrote: you've built rally cars?
A Ford Racing Puma up to MSA regs... but then my mate got moved to Ely and I got married. (now sold)
And the same friend and I helped build a fiesta ST rally car. Then were on the crew. (For Louise Cook, now on the bigger circuits)
Obviously not single handed! And thankfully not out of my pocket
I learnt more on the team with that fiesta than I probably did during all my college training.
(annoyingly still not had anyone properly teach me to weld!)
RE: Harness bar fitting - zx_volcane - 18-05-2015
so why are you / everyone arguing about harness bars - surely if you've got the experience and know what you're doing, crack on?
also, need to see pics of this fiesta now
RE: Harness bar fitting - Piggy - 18-05-2015
(18-05-2015, 09:28 PM)zx_volcane Wrote: so why are you / everyone arguing about harness bars - surely if you've got the experience and know what you're doing, crack on?
also, need to see pics of this fiesta now
funny you say that...
just going through her website for some...
theres not many. She had another fiesta and now has a R2 I think.
just messaged her to see if she had some old pics. They just come back from NZ
RE: Harness bar fitting - welshpug - 18-05-2015
what do you mean narrow?!
every weld in 306 cage ive seen look pretty damn similar, including the ones in the 306 maxi, which if you are too young to remember them were capable of being quicker than a wrc car at the time in the right hands.